Humax FoxSat HDR misbehaving when tuning Freesat

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After re-aligning my dish, I thought I'd re-tune the FoxSat.
Strangely, it will not complete the Freesat tuning, claiming no channels found.
(The Humax 1010S Freesat box has no problems with this - everything works there).

x20180628_231759.jpg

The channel listed (11426H) is presumably the homing channel, but looking at lyngsat it seems more like a feeds transponder (The Racing Channel).

Has the homing channel changed recently, or is something els amiss?

Any advice on how to progress?
 

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According to Lyngsat 11426 H 27500 is the racing partnership, which a search reveals is for bookmaker establishments.
Code:
http://www.theracingpartnership.com/
 

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The Freesat default Channel is still 11426 H 27500 ...... Lyngsat's info is deficient.

But the Foxsat won't do a "Freesat Tune" without a valid UK Postcode entered, and a decent 2E signal - although I'm sure you know that else you wouldn't have even got up the message you depicted.

That said, I sense finger trouble here as the Foxsat isn't the most intuitive box to set up .... sadly I can't think exactly what the problem is: @PaulR might be able to shed light?
 
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PaulR

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Nothing springs to mind immediately except possibly signal strength. If you go to channel 999 (Freesat Info) on the 1010S what sort of figures do you get for signal strength/quality? Ideally a satellite meter would be better to check 11426 H.

Maybe it's a mechanical problem. Is the Foxsat (which model exactly is it?) using exactly the same feed as the 1010S - i.e. are you unplugging one to replace with the other for tuning? Maybe the centre wire in the F plug isn't quite long enough for the Foxsat? Has the F plug unscrewed slightly on the co-ax if it's a screw on type?
 
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Good suggestions.

But the Foxsat won't do a "Freesat Tune" without a valid UK Postcode entered, and a decent 2E signal - although I'm sure you know that else you wouldn't have even got up the message you depicted.
@PaulR might be able to shed light?

Postcode is valid.

Nothing springs to mind immediately except possibly signal strength. If you go to channel 999 (Freesat Info) on the 1010S what sort of figures do you get for signal strength/quality? Ideally a satellite meter would be better to check 11426 H.

Tried swapping the boxes and discovered that the 1010 was pixellating quite a lot on the 2E channel, especially BBC London, ITV and Channel 4 all SD.

I think I've guessed the problem.
While optimsing skew for 2G channels, I have degraded the 2E channels to a degree where they are borderline. When I tweaked the other day it was evening with clear skies, so channels were just above the threshold of video errors.

I dug out the meter, and sure enough, 2E transponders like 10773H are 4.9-5.1 dB C/N ratio, with relatively high BER.
Final straw: 11426H does not lock at all, although it's a quite strong signal.

I will go and re-skew later to see if I can reach something that works.
But the sad conclusion is the 2G and 2E definitely have different and noticable skew, meaning reception on a single, large dish is even more of a compromise these days!

Secondary conclusion: The FoxSat error messages are not quite as helpful as you could hope for.

Maybe it's a mechanical problem. Is the Foxsat (which model exactly is it?) using exactly the same feed as the 1010S - i.e. are you unplugging one to replace with the other for tuning? Maybe the centre wire in the F plug isn't quite long enough for the Foxsat? Has the F plug unscrewed slightly on the co-ax if it's a screw on type?

Wiring was fine - identical results on all outlets.
 

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Good suggestions.



Postcode is valid.



Tried swapping the boxes and discovered that the 1010 was pixellating quite a lot on the 2E channel, especially BBC London, ITV and Channel 4 all SD.

I think I've guessed the problem.
While optimsing skew for 2G channels, I have degraded the 2E channels to a degree where they are borderline. When I tweaked the other day it was evening with clear skies, so channels were just above the threshold of video errors.

I dug out the meter, and sure enough, 2E transponders like 10773H are 4.9-5.1 dB C/N ratio, with relatively high BER.
Final straw: 11426H does not lock at all, although it's a quite strong signal.

I will go and re-skew later to see if I can reach something that works.
But the sad conclusion is the 2G and 2E definitely have different and noticable skew, meaning reception on a single, large dish is even more of a compromise these days!

Secondary conclusion: The FoxSat error messages are not quite as helpful as you could hope for.



Wiring was fine - identical results on all outlets.
Very interesting results, looks like your dammed if you do & your dammed if you don't in relation to the skew AND still using the Foxsat as part of your setup.
 
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Very interesting results, looks like your dammed if you do & your dammed if you don't in relation to the skew AND still using the Foxsat as part of your setup.
Hmm, yes, there is clear difference in skew between the two sats.

...but re-skewing just now still hasn't solved the original problem...
I am unable to lock on to 11426H or V at the moment with either of the Humax boxes. :oops:
In fact, the SatLook meter can't get a lock on 11426V/H either, no matter what skew... :eek:

It is worth noting that 11426 is one of those frequencies with both H and V polarisations.
So absolute signal strength is no indicator - the real crucnch comes from the H/V separation.

So I plugged the output of CM180 dish into Crazyscan:

28.2E_CM180_IBUQ_optFor2G_skew 5deg.png
28.2E_CM180_IBUQ_optFor2G_skew 5deg_const.PNG

As can be seen, 11426 is quite weak, and no lock is achieved, even though the ghost of a QPSK signal is evident.

Hmm.... what to think?
Well, the CM180 is peaked on 2G at the moment, so what if I was pointing straight at 2E?

To see if you can get better result on 2E, i hooked up the recently arrived Triax 120 PF dish, which happened to be pointing at 2E.
Original feedhorn, Inverto Black Pro Single C120:

x20180629_215915.jpg

Crazyscan results:

28.2E_Triax120PF_IBP_optFor2E_skew5deg.png
28.2E_Triax120PF_IBP_optFor2E_skew5deg_const.PNG

Aha! Less signal strength, but more quality...

My current conclusion:

The CM180 is well aligned for 2G.
And works for 2E with frequencies that don't share polarisation.
Due to the slight mis-alignment of the CM180, 11426 comes in strong in terms of absolute signal strength, but it's all a jumble.
The Triax is pointing at 2E, meaning that it does bettert separation of H and V on those transponders.

So for better 11426 reception, I should re-align the CM180, then re-scan the FoxSat HDR.
But before that, I will try re-tune the FoxSat HDR on the Triax dish first, from which it should pick up all necessary signalling.

The only viable long-term solution still seems to be two (or evne three) dishes looking at 28.2, 28.35 and 28.5 respectively.
But that's another project!
 

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Hmm, yes, there is clear difference in skew between the two sats.

...but re-skewing just now still hasn't solved the original problem...
I am unable to lock on to 11426H or V at the moment with either of the Humax boxes. :oops:
In fact, the SatLook meter can't get a lock on 11426V/H either, no matter what skew... :eek:

It is worth noting that 11426 is one of those frequencies with both H and V polarisations.
So absolute signal strength is no indicator - the real crucnch comes from the H/V separation.

So I plugged the output of CM180 dish into Crazyscan:

View attachment 118504
View attachment 118505

As can be seen, 11426 is quite weak, and no lock is achieved, even though the ghost of a QPSK signal is evident.

Hmm.... what to think?
Well, the CM180 is peaked on 2G at the moment, so what if I was pointing straight at 2E?

To see if you can get better result on 2E, i hooked up the recently arrived Triax 120 PF dish, which happened to be pointing at 2E.
Original feedhorn, Inverto Black Pro Single C120:

View attachment 118514

Crazyscan results:

View attachment 118506
View attachment 118507

Aha! Less signal strength, but more quality...

My current conclusion:

The CM180 is well aligned for 2G.
And works for 2E with frequencies that don't share polarisation.
Due to the slight mis-alignment of the CM180, 11426 comes in strong in terms of absolute signal strength, but it's all a jumble.
The Triax is pointing at 2E, meaning that it does bettert separation of H and V on those transponders.

So for better 11426 reception, I should re-align the CM180, then re-scan the FoxSat HDR.
But before that, I will try re-tune the FoxSat HDR on the Triax dish first, from which it should pick up all necessary signalling.

The only viable long-term solution still seems to be two (or evne three) dishes looking at 28.2, 28.35 and 28.5 respectively.
But that's another project!

Logical conclusion but obviously a far more intricate setup than possibly one would like for some!
 

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Cheaper to move to UK .....
 

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That depends upon whether Scotland is still in ...... :lol:
 

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It's a shame that when SES took over the Eutelsat 28A business that they didn't see fit give them the same pre-skew that they already had on their own satellites.
 
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So for better 11426 reception, I should re-align the CM180, then re-scan the FoxSat HDR.
But before that, I will try re-tune the FoxSat HDR on the Triax dish first, from which it should pick up all necessary signalling.
So I did, and it worked first attempt.
This means we can conclude the thread topic for now.

One thing to note: With the Triax120 - all is back to pre-optimisation C180 experience: Most SD coming in fine, but many HD on 2G ot with 5/6 FEC not receivable. Strenght seems different, buy ability to recive the hard ones is similar!
But I can take this back to the 28.2E reception thread...
 

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You guys are obviously more savvy than I am but reading this I can see I have a similar problem or at least my friend has. He bought a new Humax Freesat box 1100s 500gb and has a feed from his neighbour's 1.9mtr Famaval dish. We are in Turre, Almeria in Southern Spain. His neighbour has an older Humax Freesat box which works fine so he assumed his would. I called round to help as he struggles with technology and I thought it would be simple (like another friend who had no signal and hadn't changed the source lol).
However, the box just kept searching for a satellite signal before postcode prompt , then said no signal - I did all the usual with no joy. I guessed it was some sort of specific signal problem as in non Freesat mode it picked up loads of channels. I took it to my own house which has a similar set up but exactly the same. I concluded that either something had changed with Freesat signal or it was a faulty unit, in any case as he had no access to the dish, the only option was to send it back and use a non-Freesat box which works fine.
As he only had one feed it was probably a waste of money anyway.

BUT - here is a question - If you pick up the Freesat signal somewhere on the box, will it then work to a degree in the original setup where it wasn't receiving the signal. I suppose the EPG wouldn't work which defeats the purpose. I understand this could be a really stupid question so please be gentle.
 
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You guys are obviously more savvy than I am but reading this I can see I have a similar problem or at least my friend has. He bought a new Humax Freesat box 1100s 500gb and has a feed from his neighbour's 1.9mtr Famaval dish. We are in Turre, Almeria in Southern Spain. His neighbour has an older Humax Freesat box which works fine so he assumed his would. I called round to help as he struggles with technology and I thought it would be simple (like another friend who had no signal and hadn't changed the source lol).
However, the box just kept searching for a satellite signal before postcode prompt , then said no signal - I did all the usual with no joy. I guessed it was some sort of specific signal problem as in non Freesat mode it picked up loads of channels. I took it to my own house which has a similar set up but exactly the same. I concluded that either something had changed with Freesat signal or it was a faulty unit, in any case as he had no access to the dish, the only option was to send it back and use a non-Freesat box which works fine.
As he only had one feed it was probably a waste of money anyway.
See the other thread for discussion.
BUT - here is a question - If you pick up the Freesat signal somewhere on the box, will it then work to a degree in the original setup where it wasn't receiving the signal. I suppose the EPG wouldn't work which defeats the purpose. I understand this could be a really stupid question so please be gentle.
No, I believe it's just he initial network tuning (and possibly software updates) which require the "Freesat signal" (it's really the network information which is there). The EPG should also broadcast on other transponders to support the EPG on a single-tuner box working on other frequencies (eg. tuned to BBC1), but at a much lower bitrate than the homing transponder.
So, without having analysed the transport streams of Freesat, I think you might be able to make it work by doing the initial tuning at someone else's antenna, then move it to one wher 11426H does not come in.
But I would recommend realigning the original dish to catch 11426H at Astra 2E if at all possible.
 
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