Help Required 1m motorised install

[jeallen01]

@gdf68

No signal probably almost certainly caused by the pole-> motor and motor->dish connections having been disturbed by removing/refitting the components - you only have to be less than 1/2 a degree off for the dish to be "looking" outside the VERY narrow sat beam width and thus for no signal to be picked up, and that's for the strongest transponders on most sats other than 13E/19E/28E!

Think you'll have to probably start from scratch again.

Edited:
PS: it should easier 2nd time around as you should now have some experience!

PPS: and that's why I cleaned and painted my dishes BEFORE I even tried to install them on the first occasion, or else did that when they were still in-situ!

 

[gdf68]

Yeah it had moved off line and and we got a new flat roof fitted , was not getting used so took it all down. Old TM 2300 was faulty when I tried last month , was given a spare digipower
When I first set this up 15 yrs I must have fluked it as other than I little tweak.

Not sure what you mean by -> motor and motor->dish connections having been disturbed by removing/refitting the components.
Do you mean take it all down again ?
It's all plumb and centred and
Motor elevation scale 35* lat scale54*
Dish angle 23*

I agree something is a miss when setting the dish scale I have no arrow only a nut so guessing this bit.
Also the Lnb does it just sit parallel straight facing the arm , you don't have to mess with the skew on motorised setups

 

[jeallen01]

You don't have to take it all down again, but you will have to, stage-by-stage, reset the pole->motor, then the motor->dish settings, back to where they were before you took it all down!

Even very small deviations from the original and relatively correct settings could result in "no signal" - so RECHECK those settings very carefully! Also make sure all the electrical connections don't have any breaks and are clean & tight.

Edited:
PS: as far as the skew angle is concerned, the lnb generally does have to sit vertically w.r.t. the feedarm (but obviously only when the dish is pointing at 0 deg!) for most sats and that changes as the dish goes to the other sats, but some of those other sats have differing skew requirements! Therefore, unless you invest in some sort of skew-adjustment-by-satellite system (very expensive/complex!), you have to accept that the skew angle will not be optimum for all the sats!

 

[a33]

Therefore, I suspect that your comment "So in theory I think the modified LAT-angle should be used in USALS, but in practice it doesn't matter much" is pretty much the reality of the situation.

Setting angles very precise is indeed difficult, but measuring angles to see if they are in fact near the best theoretical angle is not too difficult.

Using the modified angles gives an angular improvement up to 0.7 degrees. That is well worth it.
Using the modified latitude in a USALS calculations give an angular improvement up to 0.07 degrees. Peanuts, hardly noticable.

(Though I must confess, I've set the modified Latitude in my motor settings.... )

Greetz,
A33

 

[a33]

I've give up for the day.
...
Now on receiver sat finder went to 0.8w no signal and no signal on any sats.

So, where do you think the problem lies?
- In your angle settings? Then post pictures of the scales, and the whole dish setup from the side, so that we can see if something looks strange.
- In finding due south? There are ways of finding that with the sun.
- The satfinder did get power (lights visible)? Do you have a simple satbeeper (I prefer those!), or one that 'recognizes' certain sats?
- In something else...?

You seem to have worked systematically, so it's hard to see where the problem might be.

greetz,
A33

 

[gdf68]

I'll post pics tomorrow, if he rain holds off.
Probably not set it facing true south at the offset , just put it all bang centre pole > motor> dish> Lnb , zero'd the motor then went to 0.8w
Also hard to guage dish scale as only a nut ,( pic later)
Not using a meter Sat finder was on the receiver end.
I appreciate all the help.
I'll dream about this all night now

 

[gdf68]

Dish 23*?

Motor scale 35*?

Motor lat 54*?

 

[jeallen01]

@gdf68
FWIW, I often sprayed the scales and the adjustment nuts with white spray paint so that everything was more visible and minor adjustments more easily assessed as I could then mark critical positions with a black marker - also when spray painted over a plate that was to be moved slightly then that movement could then be more easily seen.

OTOH, that didn't make the actual movement any more easy to control

PS to at least one of your photos - would probably be a good idea to use toothed lock washers under adjustment nuts to try to prevent changes due the heating/cooling (thus leading to expansion/contraction) effects of sunlight on the U-bolts and nuts.

 

[a33]

Thanks for the photoos.
Motor elevation looks OK, tube angle would indeed be 30*.

Dish face looks downward now, and I would expect a bit upward, when aimed due south.
Total dish elevation should be 35.9-7.0 =~ 28.9*, and most offset dishes have an offset angle of 20-25 degrees.
So I guess the dish elevation scale angle should be where the bolt is? That means it would now be set at about 16*.

So, does it help to aim the dish higher?


If all this fails, you could measure the present elevation angle of the dish face (some long wood on the dish face, and then measure the angle). And measure width and height of the dish, so we can calculate the offset angle.
From these measures, we can calculate how many degrees it should be aimed higher.

Greetz,
A33

 

[gdf68]

Thanks for the updates, I assume I use the centre of the bolt as my marker to guage and set my angle at 28.9* will try this first

Before the measuring method

Thanks for the tip paint and washers
Regarding the toothed washers would you no which size I need .

 

[jeallen01]

Thanks for the updates, I assume I use the centre of the bolt as my marker to guage and set my angle at 28.9*
Thanks for the tip paint and washers
Regarding the toothed washers would you no which size I need .

The U-bolts are probably M8, so choose the same size washers!

 

[a33]

and set my angle at 28*

NO!
Dish elevation scale should still be on 23*!

"Total dish elevation" due south should be 28.9*, indeed, but corrected for dish offset angle.
It is just to show how I assess your dish elevation situation.
Edit: and that angle can help when the dish elevation scale is unusable...

 

[gdf68]

Right moved it to 23
0.8 w signal 70
30w 50
39e 52
28e high 90s
However
Strangely low on 13.e and 19.2
Nothing on 16e

Also think I need to the u bolts down hard to stop the cable getting caught. Should I lower dish on the motor mount or is it ok where it is

 

[jeallen01]

Right moved it to 23
0.8 w signal 70
30w 50
39e 52
28e high 90s
However
Strangely low on 13.e and 19.2
Nothing on 16e

Also think I need to the u bolts down hard to stop the cable getting caught. Should I lower dish on the motor mount or is it ok where it is

Either the motor is not aligned on 0.8W - just a tiny bit too far West - or you still have not got the declination correct. I would suspect the motor alignment.

As for the motor mount height on the pole: unless the pole is bending forward (South) a lot, then you should have no need to lower the motor mount.

 

[gdf68]

Tried slightly bending the dish up and 70 is the highest vi can get 0.8 before I lose it. Tweaked motor and now getting 16.0e

I'll go through each sat in the coming days,
I have never used the fine tuning element

 

[gdf68]

Thanks for all your help guys

Oh yeah if I go through the whole arc the cable sometimes get caught on the U . bolts , using twist f connections recommend any cheap reliable compression tool

 

[jeallen01]

Thanks for all your help guys

Oh yeah if I go through the whole arc the cable sometimes get caught on the U . bolts , using twist f connections recommend any cheap reliable compression tool

I don't think that changing to compression connectors would make much difference in your situation - just allow enough additional cable that you can then tie/tyrap them so that they don't get caught when the dish moves.

As for compression connectors: I tried quite a few of them 2-3 years ago and finally gave up on the concept because:
Most (in my hands at least!):
- don't clamp the cables properly &/or actually pull off easily, &/or don't seal properly against moisture
- the compression connectors can get quite expensive if you use many, and that makes practicing an expensive exercise!
- the tools themselves can get very expensive as well.

Therefore, unless one "get's lucky" I think they are best left to pro installers, and I'll certainly stick to the cheap/simple twist-on ones installed correctly - which I can do as/when required.

I think the expensive "pro" versions do seem to work well when they are used by professional installers who get lots of practice and thus get proficient with them (and can charge the tools and consumables against tax!)

Standing by for flak from people who do successfully use compression connectors!

 

[Gladstones]

Change the angle of the wire by using the following

 

[gdf68]

Cheers , my memory is going just found, these

 

[Channel Hopper]

Dish 23*?

Motor scale 35*?

Motor lat 54*?

Sorry , late to the party but that looks very much out.

Can you take imagery of the latest dish setting (just one picture from the side )

from that I can work out where you are at and where you should be.