Best receiver for aligning dish

[Hokksund]

by the way, i am using a single invacom, as the Dual MTI fills up with water, bloody stupid design

 

[Telia]

Single output Invacom is a lousy LNB, try some other LNB like Smart Titanium or Inverto Black Ultra.

 

[Huevos]

The best meter in the world won't beat this final stage as you are align the dish with the equipment and difficult reception conditions that you will be using to watch TV.

Are you serious? What meters have you used?

 

[park_gate]

OK. I tried setting the skew off and aligning the dish and that help me get 90%Signal and 90% Quality on both 12207V 27.5, 2/3 (2B south) and
12480V, 27.5, 2/3 (2A north).

BUT STILL no 2D ...aaaaggh! Also tried 10832 H , but no signal. Is this possible?

I spoke with a guy earlier today who is 1 hour west from here and he gets BBC1 on a 1.2m dish, so my 1.6m should be fine...the signal weakens here around 20:00

i think i'll call an installer with a meter to come out and check for 2D

The amount of time you have spent adjusting this dish and not getting any sign of 2D makes me think you have a fault LNB or box?

Astra 2D is in the low band and the LNB might not be switching to low band?

Try a signal strength test for 10890V 27.5 2/3. This doesn’t exist but if the LNB Local oscillator is not switching it should receive 11740V.

Also try and get a dual Invacom they are so much better than the single and also much better than other makes (for Spain anyway).

Terry

 

[park_gate]

Are you serious? What meters have you used?

Yes I’m very serious.

My reasoning is based on the theory that you can’t beat adjusting for minimum pixilation on the very equipment you are going to use to view with and at the worst time of the day for reception.

It is also based on experience where I have got 45 min extended viewing time over a professional aligned dish with a meter.

The OP is getting absolutely no 2D signal could you explain how a meter is going to improve things.

Terry

 

[Huevos]

Yes I’ve very serious.

My reasoning is based on the theory that you can’t beat adjusting for minimum pixilation on the very equipment you are going to use to view with and at the worst time of the day for reception.

There is no such thing as minimum pixelization. Pixelization shows you are at the signal to noise threshold imposed by Shannon's theorem. If signal to noise gets worse there will be no picture at all. If it gets better the picture will be perfect, but you have no way of knowing how far above the threshold the signal to noise ratio is. With a professional meter you can see how far above the threshold you are even when there is a perfect picture and this allows you to get the alignment nailed. It also lets you predict how the dish will perform at different times of day as the satellite power goes up and down, and lets you predict if, for example, there is any rain fade margin.

The OP is getting absolutely no 2D signal could you explain how a meter is going to improve things.

That's not true. If he is receiving channels from 2A then he is receiving signal from 2D, it's just that those signals are below the signal to noise threshold imposed by Shannon's theorem. If you plug in a decent meter with spectrum display the signal from 2D would be clearly visible. For example one of my dishes is 90cm. From this location that is far to small for 2D reception but on the spectrum display the signal is clearly visible and the signature looks the same as for a larger dish. To the receiver though this signal is invisible/non-existent. What this means is you can get almost perfect alignment of a dish on to a satellite the receiver can't even see. And if you know you have perfect alignment but no lock the dish is obviously too small.

 

[park_gate]

There is no such thing as minimum pixelization. Pixelization shows you are at the signal to noise threshold imposed by Shannon's theorem. If signal to noise gets worse there will be no picture at all. If it gets better the picture will be perfect, but you have no way of knowing how far above the threshold the signal to noise ratio is.

That’s not true.

If you read my post #12 you will see I said do the adjustment just as the picture starts to break up. At the point of threshold the difference between a perfect picture and some pixilation is about a 1 dB drop in signal strength. The difference between some pixilation and full break up is about another 1 dB drop. So you can see the adjustment is very sensitive at this point.

The important thing is do the adjustment under worst case conditions.

I can confirm this method works very well in practice and if it works who cares what the signal to noise ratio is.

If he is receiving channels from 2A then he is receiving signal from 2D, it's just that those signals are below the signal to noise threshold imposed by Shannon's theorem. If you plug in a decent meter with spectrum display the signal from 2D would be clearly visible.

The Pace 2600 meter also works below the signal to noise threshold. The meter seems to be consistent between boxes and you need a 30% reading for the quality and signal strength in order to get a picture so 10% or 20% readings are below the threshold.

The fact that the OP can’t get a signal at all makes me think there is something else wrong and considering the size of the dish I would suspect the LNB although the old water filled LNB might have taken out the receiver high / low band switch.

Terry

 

[Huevos]

The important thing is do the adjustment under worst case conditions.

Right, so next time a client rings and asks for an alignment I'll tell them they will have to wait until the next torrential rain storm at 11ºclock at night.
I'm joking of course but I'm sure you can see why it is practical to have a device which shows how a system is going to perform under the worst conditions even though the worst conditions aren't the current ones.

 

[park_gate]

Right, so next time a client rings and asks for an alignment I'll tell them they will have to wait until the next torrential rain storm at 11ºclock at night.
I'm joking of course but I'm sure you can see why it is practical to have a device which shows how a system is going to perform under the worst conditions even though the worst conditions aren't the current ones.

The OP is not aligning dishes for a living but trying to align his own dish. I would never recommend a professional installer use a receiver in-built meter even as a joke.

You don’t have to go out in a rain storm. You can use the worst time of the day on a bad transponder. You can use BBC2 for the north Costa Blanca to do this.

Another trick is to use a poor performance LNB for your dish alignment and then switch to the good one.

You could also try using a damp cloth over the LNB feed horn to simulate rain, I’ve not tried that one but it should work.

Terry

 

[park_gate]

OK. I tried setting the skew off and aligning the dish and that help me get 90%Signal and 90% Quality on both 12207V 27.5, 2/3 (2B south) and
12480V, 27.5, 2/3 (2A north).

BUT STILL no 2D ...aaaaggh! Also tried 10832 H , but no signal. Is this possible?

I spoke with a guy earlier today who is 1 hour west from here and he gets BBC1 on a 1.2m dish, so my 1.6m should be fine...the signal weakens here around 20:00

i think i'll call an installer with a meter to come out and check for 2D

How is it going?

Did you get a man out and is it fixed?

Terry

 

[park_gate]

I personally like the Digisat Pro ..
LCD display ..
2v LNB inputs ...
Diseqc control ..
an adequate range of menu functions..
and around £50
damned good value..
rgds
VS

Ebay item

270484505462
if you want to check it out

I don't believe this will work for fringe 2D reception as you can't select a single transponder.

If you have a laptop one way of getting a not too expensive reasonable meter is to buy a USB sat receiver and then use it with a software meter from someone like fastsatfinder.com

The USB receiver can also be used to watch TV on your PC.

Terry

 

[Huevos]

I don't believe this will work for fringe 2D reception as you can't select a single transponder.

It's just a field strength meter, no demodulation. This bit of the description is laughable: "PLEASE TRUST THAT YOU ARE BUYING QUALITY EQUIPMENT USED BY PROFESSIONAL INSTALLERS THEMSELVES".

 

[Hokksund]

well it looks like a pure alignment or feed horn problem , yesterday i got hold of a couple of old single no name LNBs. I connected one and just hung it in the hole where the feed horn should go and voila up comes a 2d signal , 10818. I then move it around and eventually got a 50/50 signal.
Then i cut the feedhorn off of the no name lnb and held it in front of the c120 Invacom and again up came the 2d signal on 10818. Not very accurate , but it tells me the Invacom is working correctly at least.

I then tried aligning with the feed horn and invacom for couple of hours , but no luck.

any ideas anyone? It is the original feedhorn , so should work, although i am tempted to try an adjustable feed horn , or just rig up a holder for a standard LNB.

 

[park_gate]

well it looks like a pure alignment or feed horn problem , yesterday i got hold of a couple of old single no name LNBs. I connected one and just hung it in the hole where the feed horn should go and voila up comes a 2d signal , 10818. I then move it around and eventually got a 50/50 signal.
Then i cut the feedhorn off of the no name lnb and held it in front of the c120 Invacom and again up came the 2d signal on 10818. Not very accurate , but it tells me the Invacom is working correctly at least.

I then tried aligning with the feed horn and invacom for couple of hours , but no luck.

any ideas anyone? It is the original feedhorn , so should work, although i am tempted to try an adjustable feed horn , or just rig up a holder for a standard LNB.

Could be distance from LNB to dish i.e. when you held LNB and feed horn were the further from the dish compaired to holder?

Also does your feed horn match both the type of dish (prime focus and offset dishes have different feed horns) and the size of your dish? The wrong feedhorn will look at too much (see noise from behind dish) or not enough of the dish (week signal).

Terry

 

[Hokksund]

Hi Terry, Really appreciate all your posts.

It is the original feedhorn, as the dish has a round plastic holder it fits into. i held the std lnb and tried moving in and out, the best result was flush where the original feedhorn should be, so the focal point must be correct. I have tried adjusting the arms and i am pretty sure i have it at the optimum point.

Today i drilled three holes through the plastic feedhorn holder at 120 degree spacing and used three screws and bolts to hold the Invacom Quad lnb in place, it work quite well. I have 50% signal & 50% quality in the fog on 10818.

Also I borrowed a great Canal Plus receiver from a friend CDC-7000. Which allows you to easily select which satellite TP you are looking at, check out:
_http://www.canaldigital.no/TV/Parabol/Temasider/Landingssider/Mottakere/Canal-Digital-CDC-7000/

This really helped, because unlike my Pace , this gives you the reading even if not locked and you can see it fluctuating up and down in 1% variations. Blinding!

I am now going to get hold of a C120 MTI AP8 and try that with the feedhorn again, I am also considering buying a IDLB-SINL40-ULTRA-OPP or the twin.

 

[park_gate]

Hi Terry, Really appreciate all your posts.

It is the original feedhorn, as the dish has a round plastic holder it fits into. i held the std lnb and tried moving in and out, the best result was flush where the original feedhorn should be, so the focal point must be correct. I have tried adjusting the arms and i am pretty sure i have it at the optimum point.

Today i drilled three holes through the plastic feedhorn holder at 120 degree spacing and used three screws and bolts to hold the Invacom Quad lnb in place, it work quite well. I have 50% signal & 50% quality in the fog on 10818.

Also I borrowed a great Canal Plus receiver from a friend CDC-7000. Which allows you to easily select which satellite TP you are looking at, check out:
_http://www.canaldigital.no/TV/Parabol/Temasider/Landingssider/Mottakere/Canal-Digital-CDC-7000/

This really helped, because unlike my Pace , this gives you the reading even if not locked and you can see it fluctuating up and down in 1% variations. Blinding!

I am now going to get hold of a C120 MTI AP8 and try that with the feedhorn again, I am also considering buying a IDLB-SINL40-ULTRA-OPP or the twin.

Not sure exactly what's going on there but it looks like you are slowly getting there.

Thanks for the update and letting us know how you are getting on.

Terry