Channel Master 1.8m with new Feedhorn WORSE!

[radicaldoc]

Isn't the channel master a dream to set up!! The mount is excellent for adjusting. I do like the channel master 1.8 Dish. i Have pretty much same as you the UB does show as better better signal. I am still waiting to give this a proper set up and try as i have been ill and now pretty much recovered still unable as barely a day goes by without heavy rain and strong winds. So it it bide my time until it is a little better weather. I am at the moment having problems with it all as i tried to have a quick set up but things got worse with it on when i went to have a look as to why i found rain had got into it so had to strip it off again i put my Invacom twin c120 back on but it appears i still had condensation inside so that was bad as well so at the moment i have them both off drying out and the Universal Invacom quad on it while i get time to have a proper go at it..
You say you "I used an Invacom quad and a Channel master LNB with the correct plastic fittings to reduce the LNB mount to C120 size,"
Why did you need to do that my quad is a straight fit on mine?? or am i not understanding this correctly?
Thanks for you input..... :-beer :-beer

 

[sydeccles]

The LNB mount for the Inverto is circa 40mm and the Invacom is a C120 and the mount fits the Feed Horn, not the LNB.

As for setting up, I did struggle getting the dish Vertical, in the end I installed the dish mount on 4 threaded studs, that way I managed to trim the vertical

This is the Inverto


Channel Master C120 Feed Horn

 

[radicaldoc]

My mount is yours the same then???

 

[sydeccles]

Same as your set up, except I have a floor mount.


Frontal View


I am still not certain what LNB to use, basically do I want signal strength or signal quality ?

You asked why I needed to use plastic spacers on my Invacom C120 with the Channel master feed horn. These photo's maybe show a little clearer.

Feed Horn Spacers / adapters

 

[radicaldoc]

Yep exactly the same as mine... As for signal and Quality i don't know or understand it very well it can't be quality as i can get 100% all the time but at the moment only 87% signal on my meter on vertical pretty much same readings as you...
On my converted Black Ultra my first readings were 100%quality and 95% signal but it made no difference on screen.
Although at thee moment i have lost 2F. I hope this has a lot to do with weather at the moment..

Perhaps someone could give me a bit of guidance as to which frequency is the best to set up my dish...At the moment i am using 28.2A i think frequency is 11.817 mhz V
This is from my sat pack i downloaded from Horizon for my meter. is there a better one to use???

 

[5ºwest]

to pick up on the comment from radicaldoc on the loss of 2F

I am on the north coast (of spain) where a 1.1m dish and an invacom quad gave pretty good reception of 2D with typical SQ of 50% and outages only during torrential rain and could get reasonble service with a 80cm. After the satellite changes the ex 2D transponders have SS80% SQ70% and the ex 2A transponders SS80% SQ80% so fine for the time being

- but there is nothing from 2F

I am finding the same radicaldoc and fear that the loss of 2F is not due to the weather but because the 2F footprint giving a lot less signal than 2D did.

From the forums I have read it is not clear whether anyone can now receive the 2F signals in Spain now that 2F seems to have settled down.

Sydeccles - your figures show that you get a reasonable signal from 2F - when was this? and do you now get CH5?
(and in answer to your question of signal strength v quality - I take quality every time)

Has anyone managed to receive the 2F channels ( CH5 and its variants, CH4 HD, BBC1 HD wales + scotland) in spain in the past few days?

 

[radicaldoc]

I am still getting a pixelated picture now and again but not good enough to watch...this is on the 5's not CH4 HD and 4seven..I think i read somewhere people had noticed a change in the last 2 weeks..

 

[Lazarus]

to pick up on the comment from radicaldoc on the loss of 2F

I am on the north coast (of spain) where a 1.1m dish and an invacom quad gave pretty good reception of 2D with typical SQ of 50% and outages only during torrential rain and could get reasonble service with a 80cm. After the satellite changes the ex 2D transponders have SS80% SQ70% and the ex 2A transponders SS80% SQ80% so fine for the time being

- but there is nothing from 2F

I am finding the same radicaldoc and fear that the loss of 2F is not due to the weather but because the 2F footprint giving a lot less signal than 2D did.

From the forums I have read it is not clear whether anyone can now receive the 2F signals in Spain now that 2F seems to have settled down.

Sydeccles - your figures show that you get a reasonable signal from 2F - when was this? and do you now get CH5?
(and in answer to your question of signal strength v quality - I take quality every time)

Has anyone managed to receive the 2F channels ( CH5 and its variants, CH4 HD, BBC1 HD wales + scotland) in spain in the past few days?

Astra 2F: Iberia & Balearics Discussion

Please use the linked Thread.

That way, the wider picture (so to speak!) can be collated in one place rather than us having disparate reports and debates in several places.

 

[sydeccles]

Sydeccles - your figures show that you get a reasonable signal from 2F - when was this? and do you now get CH5?
(and in answer to your question of signal strength v quality - I take quality every time)


Just tried the TV, 10:05am on 03/April

Ch5, Ch5HD no problem in 1.8 Prime focus dish.
The only programs that I am unable to get are ITV1HD, ITV2HD & ITV3HD

I will take another set of readings using the Invacom quad LNB from my prime focus dish as this LNB is only a couple of months old and post the results.

 

[radicaldoc]

Sydeccles - your figures show that you get a reasonable signal from 2F - when was this? and do you now get CH5?
(and in answer to your question of signal strength v quality - I take quality every time)


Just tried the TV, 10:05am on 03/April

Ch5, Ch5HD no problem in 1.8 Prime focus dish.
The only programs that I am unable to get are ITV1HD, ITV2HD & ITV3HD

I will take another set of readings using the Invacom quad LNB from my prime focus dish as this LNB is only a couple of months old and post the results.

I take it you are on SKY then....We are not we do Freesat. and don't get 5HD.. SKY are using different Beam..

As for Quality over Signal I would have thought Signal strength i am not getting some of these channels becouse i am not getting the Signal strength i would have thought is this not correct.

 

[5ºwest]

thanks for the replies,

I will use for further comments on that subject and can leave this threadfor the universal/ feed horn investigation.

but your feedback and some on that other thread show that 2F can be received in Spain with 1.8m or 2.4m dishes.
so now I have some confidence that I should be able to find a signal where i am with a reasonably sized dish, but need to look at my set up with is now over 10yrs old.

on the SS v SQ argument.
the signal you have is made up of the signal you want and that which you don't. (i.e. noise which is also picked up by the LNB, or created by it.)

The sum of the two is SS. The ratio of 'wanted signal' to the total is SQ

if the LNB gives a low signal you could use an amplifier to increase it, and a good amplifier will maintain the SQ, i.e. not introduce more noise.

But, once you have the signal nothing will remove the noise and improve the SQ (except possibly a band pass filter) so its always better to opt for good SQ.

hope this helps and look forward to more results on the feed horn tests.

 

[radicaldoc]

thanks for the replies,

I will use for further comments on that subject and can leave this threadfor the universal/ feed horn investigation.

but your feedback and some on that other thread show that 2F can be received in Spain with 1.8m or 2.4m dishes.
so now I have some confidence that I should be able to find a signal where i am with a reasonably sized dish, but need to look at my set up with is now over 10yrs old.

on the SS v SQ argument.
the signal you have is made up of the signal you want and that which you don't. (i.e. noise which is also picked up by the LNB, or created by it.)

The sum of the two is SS. The ratio of 'wanted signal' to the total is SQ

if the LNB gives a low signal you could use an amplifier to increase it, and a good amplifier will maintain the SQ, i.e. not introduce more noise.

But, once you have the signal nothing will remove the noise and improve the SQ (except possibly a band pass filter) so its always better to opt for good SQ.

hope this helps and look forward to more results on the feed horn tests.

thanks for the reply that has cleared that up a little for me then thanks. I get huge quality anywhere near is 100%.
so if i am getting a low signal on 2F a signal booster will help me pull it in then? Yes? Which would you recommend for this?
And what satellite (2A?) do you set up with and frequency.
thanks

 

[joddle]

SIgnal boosters are normally a pretty bad idea in my experience, especially if you are on the fringes - they seem to amplify the noise more than the signal and every time I have tried using one all I end up with is a higher SS but far worse SQ - and normally this results in no watchable picture rather than one that breaks up at times. It seems to me there is no substitute for getting a better dish and LNB when you have problems!!

 

[Lazarus]

I agree - it's not possible to get a Zero Noise Figure Amplifier unless you have a supply of Liquid Nitrogen.

Amplifiers are, however, useful in overcoming losses on unavoidably long cable runs >> but of course that pre-supposes that both signal strength and quality at the LNB end (ie with a zero length cable run) is adequate in the first place. More than adequate, actually.

 

[radicaldoc]

I agree - it's not possible to get a Zero Noise Figure Amplifier unless you have a supply of Liquid Nitrogen.

Amplifiers are, however, useful in overcoming losses on unavoidably long cable runs >> but of course that pre-supposes that both signal strength and quality at the LNB end (ie with a zero length cable run) is adequate in the first place. More than adequate, actually.

After a quick measure i am running around 35mt of cable...

 

[joddle]

After a quick measure i am running around 35mt of cable...

Make sure its good quality cable - poor cable can wipe out a signal on the fringe pretty easily - especially if over 20 metres or so and 35m is quite a run. Also make sure any bends are very gentle - i.e. no nasty sharp 90 bends anywhere - they knock the signal down as well!

 

[radicaldoc]

It is Webro wf100. Pretty decent stuff yes? although id have to put a connector in both to extend...

 

[Lazarus]

I should say that, bearing in mind that length of cable, you might at least try an Amplifier (despite the theory) - purely on the grounds that they are dirt cheap so there is not a lot to lose. And if you gain, that's one in the eye for us naysayers!

 

[5ºwest]

ho hum - there is something strange here. 100% SQ and very low SS is a new one for me.
There is always some unwanted signal in the 'atmosphere' at the same frequency as the signal we are looking for and the LNB will pick this up + the LNB itself generates some noise. So with low signal I would expect the SQ to be a lot less than 100%.

One idea though - if the signal is being attenuated between the LNB out and your meter then the SQ will be maintained and the SS reduced. The cable loss mentioned in the other replies may then be relevant, or it could be a bad connection

Have you tried measuring at the LNB?


You also asked
And what satellite (2A?) do you set up with and frequency

2A transponders on the south beam have good strength over Spain, eg TP18 12.051
Use this to get the initial dish line up
Then use transponders in the TP41 - TP56 range (10714 - 10936) (which are now only slightly weaker) for a finer adjustment and go between H and V to optimise the dish and LNB skew.
then any of the 2F transponders, again go between H and V to optimise the dish and LNB skew.

finally check that tp41-tp56 are still ok ( all the BBC, CH4 and ITV channels are all on these).

 

[sydeccles]

Make sure its good quality cable - poor cable can wipe out a signal on the fringe pretty easily - especially if over 20 metres or so and 35m is quite a run. Also make sure any bends are very gentle - i.e. no nasty sharp 90 bends anywhere - they knock the signal down as well!

Tecatel Tatanium
http://www.tecatel.com/icloud/index.php/en/productos/item/185-cable-coaxial-tecatel-titanium-blanco
This cable IS very good over long runs, one of my runs is circa 70 metres with an old Pace 2600 stuck on the end.
This cable is available in Spain from Demon Multimedia, ref 151007 €45 per 100 mt bobbin
http://www.demon-multimedia.com/productos/productos.asp?ids=21

Joddle...not a common username, is this the same guy who was on Bill's Forum?