Astra 2E: Scandinavia & Baltics Reports

[timo_w2s]

if we show good reception reports, ses will ,for sure, take power down..imo

Why would SES care, it's a Europe beam with channels that know they are broadcasting across Europe? The UK beam is more important for limiting reception but I'm still not convinced any reports make any difference, SES will do what is best for the satellite, not some random reports from enthusiasts with large dishes. IMO...

 

[timo_w2s]

20 many years, PVC cable if you get the sun will no longer have the outer cover, Madrid (Spain) 10 years deceleration / PVC cracked by the sun.
20 meters is not much, but if you are bitten by any side can have many lost, a friend had very bad sign in Hispasat with a 60cm antenna for having bad cable.

If you put wire PE (polyethylene) low loss, I have several lines with 30 years and are like the first day, has no problem with the sun.
--------------------------
20 son muchos años, el cable de PVC si le da el Sol ya no tendra la cubierta externa, por Madrid (españa) cada 10 años se desace / cuartea el PVC por el Sol.
20 metros no es mucho, pero si esta picado por algun lado puedes tener muchas perdidas, un amigo tenia muy mala señal en Hispasat con una antena de 60cm por tener el cable mal.

Si puedes pon cable PE (polietileno) de bajas perdidas, tengo varias lineas con 30 años y estan como el primer dia, no tiene problemas con el Sol.

The cable is in a metal conduit in most of the exposed areas on the roof. Overall the cable seems to be in decent visual condition from the outside. In Finland the sun is not quite so powerful as Spain though! One problem I have is sometimes the melting snow pulls on the cables on the roof and that could cause internal damage and stress.

 

[Lazarus]

if we show good reception reports, ses will ,for sure, take power down..imo

I rather imagine they have more robust means of monitoring than just Forum reports!

 

[Waveguide]

Overall the cable seems to be in decent visual condition from the outside.

A large part of the losses in coaxial cables occur in the dielectric part between center
conductor and shield. Old cables with moisture trapped inside can look good but have
large losses anyway. Newer cables with foam dielectric have lower losses and larger
diameters have lower losses than thin cables. The really fancy stuff don't have much
of dielectric, just thin spacers and are filled with nitrogen. More like plumbing than
cables really, used in high-power transmitters. The next step is waveguides and we
all know how unreliable those are!

 

[timo_w2s]

I was looking at a couple of other reports from Finland and they also have the signal levels decreasing slightly higher up the band. I'll try the another output in a different room sometime and see if there is much difference in signal levels but last time I checked in the autumn they where very similar. I guess the ultimate test will be when I can got on the roof and connect directly to the LNB.

 

[Tururu]

@timo_w2s.
The metal tube is perfect for electrical wiring installations outside its proterccion.
With warm weather, measuring levels directly connected to the LNB, the stark look like this cable/cord before entering the tube.
If you see cracked (PVC over time) can enter water, frost wire degrades quickly, being able to oxidize the copper mesh (tinned copper) losing part of the shield 30 are many.
--------
El tubo metalico de instalaciones electricas es perfecto para cables en el exterior por su proterccion.
Con buen tiempo, al medir niveles conectado directamente al LNB, mira como esta de rigido el cable antes de entrar en el tubo.
Si lo ves cuarteado (PVC con el paso del tiempo) puede entra agua, con las heladas degrada rapidamente el cable, pudiendo oxidar el cobre de la malla (cobre estañado) perdiendo parte del blindaje, 30 años son muchos.

 

[timo_w2s]

Skies are clearing, it's -6C, and I'm getting a marginal lock on 11.739GHz/V (3.4dB ) and 11.778GHz/V (3.4dB ) for the first time on my 80cm dish in Helsinki. With a bit of fine tuning I bet I can get something in good weather.

On this setup (5km away from the 1.8m at my parents house) the higher frequencies are a lot weaker too (<1dB ).

 

[Pride Of Cucamonga]

I rather imagine they have more robust means of monitoring than just Forum reports!

Yes, SES will have test sites all over Europe

 

[Leeashaz]

12304H (Challenge) now up to a solid 85% - always been 82% before.

 

[puffin]

Reception in Dalarna
BBC1 Yorkshire seems now to have migrated to 2E. Reception is a tiny bit weaker as 2F here some 20 km souteast of Falun with a signal quality of 20-30%.
My current setup is a Gibertini 150, Inverto Black Ultra and a Pace 2600.
The result is therefor a slightly pixelating picture that probatly is going to get worse in day with the normal pattern of the footprint.
What I now have to decide is to go straight for a Channelmaster 180 or give a Invacom quad with a Channelmaster feedhorn a try first.
PS: How much stronger signal can I expect to get with a change from a Invacom black Ultra without a dedicated feedhorn to a Invacom Quad with a Channel Master feedhorn?

 

[dmaavrigdo]

I have added some "new" transponders on 1N so in total 10 Tp's (3 already on 2F). So hopefully it will be possible to see the transitions "live"

Graph update rate is 10min but sampling is done every minute.

Location: Sweden, https://maps.google.com/maps?q=57.450129ºN, 12.040053ºE&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&ll=57.444949,12.041016&spn=10.269189,21.884766&hnear=0x464fe8394ba51c89:0x48afe815be969032,57.450129ºN, 12.040053ºE&t=h&z=6

Triax TD110 and Inverto black ultra quad.

http://www.eta.chalmers.se/~muy/weather/wx/grafer_astra.php

Reception in Dalarna
BBC1 Yorkshire seems now to have migrated to 2E. Reception is a tiny bit weaker as 2F here some 20 km souteast of Falun with a signal quality of 20-30%.
My current setup is a Gibertini 150, Inverto Black Ultra and a Pace 2600.
The result is therefor a slightly pixelating picture that probatly is going to get worse in day with the normal pattern of the footprint.
What I now have to decide is to go straight for a Channelmaster 180 or give a Invacom quad with a Channelmaster feedhorn a try first.
PS: How much stronger signal can I expect to get with a change from a Invacom black Ultra without a dedicated feedhorn to a Invacom Quad with a Channel Master feedhorn?

If you do decide to upgrade your dish please let me know (xxxx at gmail dot com).

Email address removed for your safety. Spammers love them!

 

[popolon]

In SW of Finland, moved 1N UK Tps better now from 2E. But let's see how the signal varies during the day.

 

[timo_w2s]

I have added some "new" transponders on 1N so in total 10 Tp's (3 already on 2F). So hopefully it will be possible to see the transitions "live"

Graph update rate is 10min but sampling is done every minute.

Location: Sweden, https://maps.google.com/maps?q=57.450129ºN, 12.040053ºE&hl=sv&ie=UTF8&ll=57.444949,12.041016&spn=10.269189,21.884766&hnear=0x464fe8394ba51c89:0x48afe815be969032,57.450129ºN, 12.040053ºE&t=h&z=6

Triax TD110 and Inverto black ultra quad.

http://www.eta.chalmers.se/~muy/weather/wx/grafer_astra.php

Your graph results this morning are interesting. Looks like you are having problems locking some vertical 2E signals and horizontal looks quite close to the edge below 2F levels.

 

[4wd]

Was expecting a black screen but BBC still alive here. Great!

 

[Llew]

Reception in Dalarna
BBC1 Yorkshire seems now to have migrated to 2E. Reception is a tiny bit weaker as 2F here some 20 km souteast of Falun with a signal quality of 20-30%.
My current setup is a Gibertini 150, Inverto Black Ultra and a Pace 2600.
The result is therefor a slightly pixelating picture that probatly is going to get worse in day with the normal pattern of the footprint.
What I now have to decide is to go straight for a Channelmaster 180 or give a Invacom quad with a Channelmaster feedhorn a try first.
PS: How much stronger signal can I expect to get with a change from a Invacom black Ultra without a dedicated feedhorn to a Invacom Quad with a Channel Master feedhorn?

CM feedhorns and the Invacom quad are well matched to the Gibertini. I replaced my ailing Inverto BU with those on my Gibby 1.25 recently, and have a not insignificant increase in dB levels on some previously unlockable signals.

 

[Waveguide]

How much stronger signal can I expect to get with a change from a Invacom black Ultra without a dedicated feedhorn to a Invacom Quad with a Channel Master feedhorn?

A stronger signal accompanied by stronger noise is no benefit, signal to noise ratio
is of more importance. If the feedhorn is adjustable the matching between LNB and dish can
be optimized and you can finetune the setup. Hard to give figures but you have control
instead of relying on chance only.

 

[Waveguide]

Signal levels have dropped by 2,5 dB on average on all migrated transponders but
still very much on the safe side here. The levels on 2E and 2F match so the earlier
discussion on how similar the footprints would be seems to have ended with the
conclusion that they are identical, at least here up north.

 

[Fredrik M]

I have lost all the UK spot beam channels here in Gothenburg. This was expected considering that my dish is only 50 cm. When I installed the dish in the autumn of last year I was surprised that I could get most of the UK spot beam channels on 1N. The previous owners of my current house had left the dish and it was stored in the basement for some years, so I have not made any real investments yet.

Looking at the data from bema, a 1.1 m dish may not be enough in our area. However, bema also states two different dB numbers for pixelization: "5.8 dB (ideal demod 5.2 dB ) and 7.2 dB (ideal demod 6.6 dB. ) What do the two different dB levels mean? The horizontal transponders have been varying between 6 and 9 dB, whereas the vertical ones have been below the detection limit. I probably need to ask my neighbors before installing anything that is larger than 1.1 m...

 

[timo_w2s]

The point of failure of a signal depends on the modulation and FEC used. I find the signals using QPSK SR 27.5 FEC 2/3 (mainly Europe beam) usually start to breakup when they get down to 3.8dB for my receiver but the signals using QPSK SR 22.0 FEC 5/6 (mainly UK spot) will be breaking up already at around 6dB. 8PSK (used by some HD channel) is more tricky and will break up at even higher signal levels than their QPSK equivalents.

 

[bema]

Your graph results this morning are interesting. Looks like you are having problems locking some vertical 2E signals and horizontal looks quite close to the edge below 2F levels.

The lower signal for the vertical ones is entirely an LNB problem. Tested 4 BU and all gives 1-1.5 dB lower SNR for vertical polarization compared to horizontal. I dropped one from the roof last week and after looking inside I now realize why it's like this. It's a design issue.
The signals are lower compared to 2F but can be due to the null just west of me (closer). Anyway I ordered two Invacom QTH-031 this morning. Can hopefully do some test in a week or two..
The problem is also that 8-PSK gets more popular and then you need additional 1.5 dB compared to QPSK.

The big drop at noon is less relevant since I never watch TV at this time.