Astra 2F: Central & East Europe Discussion

[timo_w2s]

Please don't say wait till 2E goes up

OK, I won't. Problem is anyone who says anything else is just guessing. No one knows what the signal will be like.

 

[Lazarus]

Welcome to the Forum

Well I'm sorry to say that you really will have to wait: Not just for 2E (Rescheduled launch on 15 or 17 Sep depending upon the accuracy of "Sources") but also for 2G. Albeit 2E should be the key.

Nobody knows sufficient about what will happen on the fringes to be able to responsibly advise anyone about the likelihood of a certain size Dish being sufficient.

You can't really go by 1N as it is not at it's originally intended location and is being used at 28E as a stop-gap and you probably can't go by 2F as not only is it lightly loaded but it's orientation and power output may have been adjusted for whatever reasons SES and their clients have agreed - so although 2E (and 2G) may be similar Birds by design, the operational parameters and orientation may well mean that the Fringe coverage is not identical to 2F.

So although you specifically didn't want anyone to say "wait until 2E goes up", I'm afraid it's actually the only responsible response.



Edit: While I was composing my Thesis, a far more succinct answer has already been Posted!

 

[PaulR]

I'm afraid we can only give the answer you don't want; we won't know until 2E is in place and someone sees what size dish will be needed in your area.

We can speculate that the signal maybe (probably?) will be the same, or similar, as 2F but it is just speculation. Imagine how upset you'd be to buy that 1.8m and then find it isn't quite big enough for 2E.

So, I think that unless you're prepared to take a gamble then you'll need to wait, C5-less, until then.

 

[Captain Jack]

I would say you stand a good chance of receiving decent signal with a quality dish such as the 1.8m Channel Master, considering the fact that you get Ch5 on your Gibby 1.2m dish at some points of the day. This means that there is signal there to be had on a relatively modest size dish (and not 4m monsters in the Canaries/Cyprus where they get far less than you). What happens to 2E is anyone's guess. On paper, it's the same as 2F but realistically, it's never the case. It could be better, could be worse - noone knows.

 

[Luniman]

I'm afraid we can only give the answer you don't want; we won't know until 2E is in place and someone sees what size dish will be needed in your area.

We can speculate that the signal maybe (probably?) will be the same, or similar, as 2F but it is just speculation. Imagine how upset you'd be to buy that 1.8m and then find it isn't quite big enough for 2E.

So, I think that unless you're prepared to take a gamble then you'll need to wait, C5-less, until then.

Thanks for your reply, but my question now is,, how is anyone going to know what dish size we need if no one can get the signal now? There must be someone out there with a big dish who could say if they have the signal or not?

 

[Lazarus]

Even if someone is getting the signal now, it doesn't follow that whatever Dish size that is will be sufficient in future.

So the answer to "how is anyone going to know what dish size we need if no one can get the signal now" is: They will wait until 2E (and, later, 2G) are Operational and the EIRP can be measured at various places on the fringe and the true Footprint mapped out.

Don't forget this is reception outside the intended area of coverage ie Anything you get is fortuitous, not a right and the Satellite Operators and their Clients are under no obligation whatsoever to provide Fringe information in advance (or at all).

 

[hairybadger]

I live near Geneva, slightly outside the published footprint. I can get Channel 5 without problems on a 60cm, albeit with little rain margin. With 90cm it's rock-solid in everything but the heaviest rain. I am a long way from Tuscany, so my experience is little indication of what would be needed now, and even less indication of what will be needed in the future. Your best bet is to wait until after the latest round of satellite shuffling and see what changes other people with currently-installed systems see. For example, you'll look for posts saying "I live near Florence, I could get Ch5 with an Xm dish now and now see nothing/see no change/see nothing but my friend down the road gets everything on a Ym dish".

Or you could run out now, guess, get solid reception for a few months then either have to splash out again on a bigger dish or possibly get lucky and still be OK. Your money, your choice

 

[Luniman]

Even if someone is getting the signal now, it doesn't follow that whatever Dish size that is will be sufficient in future.

So the answer to "how is anyone going to know what dish size we need if no one can get the signal now" is: They will wait until 2E (and, later, 2G) are Operational and the EIRP can be measured at various places on the fringe and the true Footprint mapped out.

Don't forget this is reception outside the intended area of coverage ie Anything you get is fortuitous, not a right and the Satellite Operators and their Clients are under no obligation whatsoever to provide Fringe information in advance (or at all).

Thanks, I'm fully aware that I'm on the fringe and have no right to reception, but when 2E and 2G go up and are in position, who measures the EIRP and how do they do it? Do they not have to use a dish to capture and then measure the signal, and if so where are all these people now?

 

[Lazarus]

Thanks, I'm fully aware that I'm on the fringe and have no right to reception, but when 2E and 2G go up and are in position, who measures the EIRP and how do they do it? Do they not have to use a dish to capture and then measure the signal, and if so where are all these people now?

Chiefly Hobbyists ............... and there won't be many per locality.

They'll do it empirically and by making use of pooled information.

And yes, they'll use Dishes - and Meters. Decent Meters can often register a signal that is below the level that a Receiver can resolve the signal at, so that helps enormously, in principle.

When 2F launched, tested and became operational, this very Forum ran several Topics for different areas of Europe (and beyond) to help collate reports and to try to create and plot the results to benefit others. That'll happen with 2E also. Other Forums and resources will no doubt do similar.

It's at such times that those with really big dishes are likely to clamber out of the woodwork - not now: They (and us) try to deal in real reports as speculation is nigh-on pointless.

 

[Luniman]

Chiefly Hobbyists ............... and there won't be many per locality.

They'll do it empirically and by making use of pooled information.

And yes, they'll use Dishes - and Meters. Decent Meters can often register a signal that is below the level that a Receiver can resolve the signal at, so that helps enormously, in principle.

When 2F launched, tested and became operational, this very Forum ran several Topics for different areas of Europe (and beyond) to help collate reports and to try to create and plot the results to benefit others. That'll happen with 2E also. Other Forums and resources will no doubt do similar.

It's at such times that those with really big dishes are likely to clamber out of the woodwork - not now: They (and us) try to deal in real reports as speculation is nigh-on pointless.

 

[Luniman]

Thanks again for your reply. So effectively they will be doing the same as me, looking for someone in the vicinity who can pick up the signal with their current equipment and trying to make a decision on whether or not to take the risk in buying new, as hairybadger says, you pay your money and you take your chance. It seems that there is no one with a 1.8m dish in Northern Tuscany who can give me the heads up.

 

[Lazarus]

Yes

and No

There will be many like you in a dilemma and there might also be some in your area with 1.8m+ dishes who might be in a position to give you a heads up.

They might be Members here. Or elsewhere. Wherever they may be, these are voluntary resources and we gather whatever information we can when we can.

But a lot of people don't log-on often, and choose to do so only when they themselves consider it of value. And the next likely opportunity will be when 2E becomes Operational, not before.

 

[hairybadger]

Thanks again for your reply. So effectively they will be doing the same as me, looking for someone in the vicinity who can pick up the signal with their current equipment and trying to make a decision on whether or not to take the risk in buying new, as hairybadger says, you pay your money and you take your chance. It seems that there is no one with a 1.8m dish in Northern Tuscany who can give me the heads up.

AnalogueSat produced a fairly detailed report map from all over the continent including dish sizes and reception quality.

 

[skomedal]

AnalogueSat produced a fairly detailed report map from all over the continent including dish sizes and reception quality.

My suspicion is the powers that be ( astra etc. ) also used this reception map ( and others ) to fine tweak the transmitter dishes on 2F to minimise fringe reception, thus saving leg work out in the field.

Just my opinion.

Regards

 

[denis1501]

You do know that the HD version is available to us here in Italy 24/7, right?

 

[Luniman]

You do know that the HD version is available to us here in Italy 24/7, right?

No! Please tell me more. Are you on Freesat?

 

[Lazarus]

Encrypted as part of BSkyB package, albeit on 1N (Any active Card, even ex-Sub., will do)

12266 H 29500 QPSK 3/4

 

[Analoguesat]

Thanks, I'm fully aware that I'm on the fringe and have no right to reception, but when 2E and 2G go up and are in position, who measures the EIRP and how do they do it? Do they not have to use a dish to capture and then measure the signal, and if so where are all these people now?

The EIRP of the UK beam down in Italy is irrelevant so wont be measured..

You might want to have a look at this thread - specifically my first post:

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/...es-where-to-find-the-main-psb-channels.94968/

The info is current but will change over the next 18 months. I'll keep it updated until its no longer relevant.



To be honest you would be far better off looking at some sort of iptv provision if you have fast enough broadband..

 

[Analoguesat]

The science of the extreme fringe reception is absolutely fascinating - we have already found there is a deep null on the 2F uk beam around Barcelona which was completely unexpected.


Should you be unlucky enough that one of those nulls coincide with your location off 2E no domestic size dish would be suitable for the BBC - we already know the Beeb will shift to 2E soon after commissioning - that was announced months ago.

 

[Luniman]

The EIRP of the UK beam down in Italy is irrelevant so wont be measured..

You might want to have a look at this thread - specifically my first post:

http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/...es-where-to-find-the-main-psb-channels.94968/

The info is current but will change over the next 18 months. I'll keep it updated until its no longer relevant.



To be honest you would be far better off looking at some sort of iptv provision if you have fast enough broadband..

Thank you Analoguesat, I can see that you have dedicated an awful lot of time into collating all the reception reports and listing the Psb channels.
I notice that most of the reception information was taken around years end and the arrival of 2E as you would expect, but unfortunately its well out of date now as so much has changed. Up until about March I could get everything except 11023, but continued tinkering and fine tuning of the footprint has resulted in the situation I find myself in now. I just would be very interested to know what size dish is needed in my location to give good solid reception.
The iptv is the last option for me as I live in a very rural area, a good way from wherever the ADSL signal comes from and it is very fragile, as soon as the wind blows the over ground cables it cuts out, as when it rains, so its almost as reliable as Ch5 now! Then there are days when it just wont connect and up to a fortnight before the engineers re-connect me, a dead loss really.