Astra 2F: Iberia & Balearics Discussion

Huevos

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Why a 1m dish will not work (Costa Blanca).

I keep getting asked if 1m dishes are going to work in the Costa Blanca, and I can say with a lot of certainty that they will not. The reason why they won't is due to interference from Badr5. Not all transponders are affected by this so it is very easy to compare clean transponders with dirty ones. For the test I am going use my Fibo 90cm dish which easily out performs typical 100 x 90cm dishes that have been fitted throughout the Costa Blanca. Receiver for tests is a Vu+ Ultimo. The picture becomes unstable at around 40% SNR. Testing three transponders as follows:
  1. 1N, clean transponder, 10994H, ITV1+1, 61dBuV, receiver SNR 75%;
  2. 1N, dirty transponder (Badr5), 10729V, C4+1, 62dBuV, receiver SNR 46%;
  3. 2F, clean transponder, 11023H, BBC1 HD Scotland, 58dBuV, receiver SNR 55%;

On one hand a clean transponder on 2F is 20% SNR below a clean transponder on 1N. But the 55% SNR is above the 40% needed to receive a viewable picture.

On the other hand the dirty transponder on 1N (interference from Badr5) only has an SNR of 46% to start with, even though the transponder has a slightly higher gross signal level. Take away the 20% SNR that is lost in the switch from 1N to 2F and you are down to only 26% SNR which is well below the 40% required. Going up to a 120 x 110cm dish filters a off a lot of the interference from Badr5 and gets us up to an SNR of 70% on this transponder, which may be just enough to get us stable reception after the switchover. Time will tell.

1N, clean transponder, 10994H, ITV1+1, 61dBuv, receiver SNR 75%;
ITV1+1-on-90cm-dish.jpg

1N, dirty transponder (Badr5), 10729V, C4+1, 62dBuV, receiver SNR 46%;
C4+1-on-90cm-dish.jpg

2F, clean transponder, 11023H, BBC1 HD Scotland, 58dBuV, receiver SNR 55%;
8901-on-90cm-dish.jpg

1N, same dirty transponder but using a 120 x 110cm dish to reduce interference from Badr5;
C4+1-on-110cm-dish.jpg
 

welshman234

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Hi Huevos is the interference from BADR more marked in Spain or is this something I should concern myself about when I possibly upgrade my dish here in Germany in the future? I have read that BADR can/ could be a problem in Southern Germany ?

Cheers
 

welshman234

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Bad form to answer my own post but I have checked these dirty frequencies and i am getting 94% SNR on 10729 so barring a catasrophe... I may be ok on SD from 2F.....


Cheers anyway.
 

Huevos

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I doubt you could resolve the Badr5 transponders in Germany even if you had a 2.4m dish pointing at 26E.
 

deepbluesky

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Huevos said:
I doubt you could resolve the Badr5 transponders in Germany even if you had a 2.4m dish pointing at 26E.
Huevos, the screenshots you've posted above, are they yours from Mallorca on 110x120cm ?

welshman234, at least the 11023H does not show to be that weak that you might need a huge dish in Frankfurt.

Badr 5 can be partly received on even 80cm nearby Augsburg and in NW Germany on 1.20m. Several positive reports you can read here www.dishworld.de/thread.php?threadid=2817
But Frankfurt is not a hot spot for Badr 5 as far as the reports are showing so its level is far lower than that of 2F/11023H so there will be definitely no interference on smaller dishes there.
 

Huevos

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deepbluesky said:
Huevos, the screenshots you've posted above, are they yours from Mallorca on 110x120cm ?
I'm in Alicante (mainland Spain). Badr5 is an easy catch on a 60cm dish here.

And, yes, the screenshots are mine.
 

TENERIFEFORUMTV

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Why a 1m dish will not work (Costa Blanca).


so where do think ´´the line is then ???
 

bonou2

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golden media uni-box2 ---- L=89% ,Q=25-39% signal fluctuates sometimes 46%(now signal more stable)
the signal audio-video is stable

amiko alien 8900hd--- L=79% ,Q=77%
the signal audio-video is stable

today at 6.30am (some photo)
amiko alien 8900hd--- L=79% ,Q=69%
the signal audio-video is stable


best regards bonou2

test report 30.11.2012 at 20:28pm

@Huevos I'll check when it rains signal level
 

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davidcmadrid

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Morning,

I have seen ( personally ) two reports in Spanish that people with 1M dishes are getting 2F 11023H in Madrid, they are Spanish with no english so would not sign up here. Weather at the time clear skies. Interestingly and it may be the tuner ( really have no idea one of them and a guy in portugal with a different tuner is saying if he programs 11022H he gets a better reception ).

On a seperate note I googled " DNS iplayer watch " and found several simple and seemingly reliable solutions ( in comparison to cost of installing a 2m + dish ) to watch english TV, at some point it might be interesting to have a resource for theflood of expats on the Costa etc who were flogged 1m Dishes who are sure to turn up ).
 

madridman

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Reception report:
01.12.12 north east Madrid - clear skies
4am 11023h s91% q65% audio/video stable
10am intermittent signal s91% q65% virtually no audio/video reception
12.30pm s91% q65% audio/video with some pixelation
 

davidcmadrid

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Thanks Madridman, 1m seems to be the around the floor , I think 1.4 / 1.5m is good enough here for Madrid whilst retaining a decent margin. I rang an installer to get a quote for this type of install and he refused to take the work saying it was better to wait, even after i assured him that I understood there was a risk attached to picking a dish size and it was mine to take.
 

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Thanks Madridman, 1m seems to be the around the floor , I think 1.4 / 1.5m is good enough here for Madrid whilst retaining a decent margin. I rang an installer to get a quote for this type of install and he refused to take the work saying it was better to wait, even after i assured him that I understood there was a risk attached to picking a dish size and it was mine to take.
Nice to know there are still honest installers about :-)
 

davidcmadrid

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trevortronix said:
Nice to know there are still honest installers about :-)
If there are many reports of
1.0 m ( no weather margin )
1.2 ( weather margin included )
1.35( 70%Sig / 70% Q )

Around me within a radius of 45km is it not safe to get a 1.5m dish and say that when more stations change ( 11023H is actually a live channell on the Sky EPG and not a test channell ) I stand a good to excellent chance of recieving them fron 2F? I think its a reasonable riskto take now , whats the worst that can happen .. I own a 1.5m dish to point elsewhere if in the future I have to get an even bigger dish..
 

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Wait till Tuesday and then we will know whats likely to be possible in Madrid. :)
 

davidcmadrid

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Analoguesat said:
Wait till Tuesday and then we will know whats likely to be possible in Madrid. :)
Yeah, I have picked out the cable , dish , where to buy etc but will wait untill Tuesday to actually purchase I just want to have things " lined up " before getting too close to Xmas. The installer will only get onto the roof and mount / find thesatellite etc ). A few of them this week told me i needed a 1.9m based on reports they were getting so not all are honest still .. id suspect that have an inventory to shift but of course in my eagerness scouring over reports here and in Spanish I could be getting to far ahead of myself ).. So you think they would use a different reflector ( beam shape ) or power setting for other frequencies. Realising 11023H was an in service freqeuncy was a bit of a game changer for me.
 

PFD ALGARVE

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Hi, long time lurker here. I've been avidly following this thread but I still find it confusing. I currently get all the Freesat BBC/ITV/C4&5 channels with my 2m Fibreglass prime focus dish. Are we expecting all the other BBC channels to move over to Astra 2F or just these new regional BBC1HD channels? As far as I can gather C4&5 & ITV will be moving over next week. Does this mean BBC1,2,3 & 4 will escape this changeover and they will stay where they are on 1N. I never had trouble getting 2D except for C5 but I have been looking at the prices of 3m dishes and they are truly terrifying. I have seen on some dishes around here an extra extender ring ups the diameter to 2.4m. (a bit off topic I know sorry) Does anyone know what I'm referring to and if they are still availiable?
Otherwise thanks everyone for sharing all this useful information.
 

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All the BBC ITV C4 & C5 channels will eventually move off 1N onto the new 2F - 1N will be sent off to its original planned home at 19E at some point.
 

timo_w2s

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PFD ALGARVE said:
Are we expecting all the other BBC channels to move over to Astra 2F or just these new regional BBC1HD channels? As far as I can gather C4&5 & ITV will be moving over next week. Does this mean BBC1,2,3 & 4 will escape this changeover and they will stay where they are on 1N.
No one really knows for sure but apparently some of the ITV1 channels, Channel 4 HD and 4seven, and all the SD Channel 5 channels (not Channel 5 HD) will move over to 2F to join the two BBC HD test channels that are already on 2F in the next few days (according to an SES Facebook post).

As for if/when other channels will move to 2F, that is still being debated on various threads and only SES knows what is planned...
 

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Thanks fellas.
 

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madridman said:
Reception report:
01.12.12 north east Madrid - clear skies
4am 11023h s91% q65% audio/video stable
10am intermittent signal s91% q65% virtually no audio/video reception
12.3q0pm s91% q65% audiqo/video with some pixelation
this doesn't make sense. Same quality but different reception.
 
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