Badr 4,6. 26 E

[peppey]

audio and vision problem needs white and yellow phono connector,tv to rec.

 

[shamone]

Sorry to dig this post up, but I have an issue with this and did not want to start a new post.


I have been able to pull in this sat but the picture has lots of break up despite having good signal and strength levels.


It is the same on Dubai 1 and sports, would adjusting the skew on the LNB help this?

 

[futumsch]

If your dish is motorized then you do not need to adjust the LNB skew - i.e your whole dish will be skewed. If your dish is fixed (i.e. upright) then skew the lnb 18 degrees clockwise as you look at the dish.
The biggest improvement i made to get signals off this bird was to swap from an inverto lnb to a dark gold. Not that I have much faith in the 0.1dB noise figure, but the extra body length on the dark gold allowed me to push the lnb into the dish focus and get a far better signal. I even get good signal without picture break up on the mbc channels in moderate rain.

 

[Lazarus]

Sorry to dig this post up, but I have an issue with this and did not want to start a new post.


I have been able to pull in this sat but the picture has lots of break up despite having good signal and strength levels.


It is the same on Dubai 1 and sports, would adjusting the skew on the LNB help this?

Are you using USALS?

If so, change the Satellite Position associated with BADR from 26E to 25.5E.

As regards Skew, I agree with the previous Poster. Unless it is wrong across the arc by virtue of not being dead upright at zero angular displacement of the motor, then it shouldn't need to be altered.

 

[shamone]

Thanks for the replys guys.


The whole setup is 100% vertical as I have just re set it all. I will try and adjust the USALS position and post back the results.

 

[Huevos]

If your LNB is skewed for the motor it will be fine. If it is skewed for 28E it will be well out as SES Astra satellites all have 7.5 degrees anti-skew.

 

[shamone]

futumsch, I have moved the LNB further back and signal has dropped off. It looks like it could be the LNB.


I have been reading about the Inverto black ultra being a good LNB. Is the dark gold just as good?

 

[futumsch]

Shamone, i had to move my lnb right way the forward toward the dish as far as it would go. You have to move it for optimum signal level. It was only because of the physical shape of the thing would allow me to move the lnb in the holder far forward enough that i was able to get a better signal. the 0.2 Inverto twin I bought didn't have that much movement. I only discovered that because someone else on this forum had done the same trick with the Dark Gold. It may be that the focus of your Gib is at optimum for your lnb.

And, its been said before, you have to be millimetre perfect, especially on BADR4, I was tweaking the az and el for ages, in quarter turns of a thread to make get as much signal as possible - as well as optimising for the rest of the arc.

As to whether it is a better lnb, I've been trawling this forum for months and there are many threads in this forum and people swear by many different lnbs, but as i've read somewhere here, lnb's are fairly cheap and its best to use trial and error. Here's a good thread I keep as a bookmark: http://www.satellites.co.uk/satelli...motorised-systems/153893-best-lnb-market.html

I see you have the 1.0m Gibertini. I seems fairly popular and that would be my choice of dish. So would be interested how you get one with other lnbs.

 

[Huevos]

I have been reading about the Inverto black ultra being a good LNB. Is the dark gold just as good?

No way. I used to like the Darkgold until I tried the Black Ultra. My meter has BER and C/N so my experience is not just best guess. In my tests I am yet to find another LNB that can even get within 0.5dB in signal to noise of the Black Ultra in low band. I just cannot overstate how good this LNB is for fringe reception and as you can see from the attachment there is plenty of adjustment to move the LNB in and out.

 

[Vipersan]

..Hi friends
..just thought I'd add my 10cents to the discussion

I logged 253 channels on Badr 26E with dvbviewer using the triax TD110.
I havent checked them all but the MBC mux on 11919 H is showing solid pictures with at around 51%

rgds
VS

 

[shamone]

Well I went ahead and purchased the Inverto Black Ultra. It arrived on Monday but due to work and the rubish weather I have not had a chance to fit until today.


The first thing I noticed was that the LNB was alot heavier than my Icecrypt and that the build quality was top notch. I fitted the LNB and pushed it quite away towards the dish.


Hello I can now get all the MBC channels and the ones which had break up on before have all came in fine. 82% signal and 74% quality. I will test on a few more weak sats and post my results.


As said before the Inverto Black Ultra is a great LNB for fringe reception.

 

[dovercat]

I can get Badr 26.5E easily with no problems, signal quality in mid 50s on my reciever which is high enough to be rain proof, lose picture below 40 signal quality. The MBC channels and Dubai One are very good for English language Tv with Arabic subtiles.

My location 51.6North 1.2West
0.5dB Televes Universal Lnb. 57dB gain, polarity discrimination 25dB, local oscillator stability +/-2MHz (on my Televes dish it outperforms so called 0.2 and 0.1dB Lnbs I have)
1mtr Televes dish. 40.5dB gain at 11GHz, beamwidth 1.98 degrees
Moteck SG-2100 DiSEqC motorised mount (toy - piece of junk, plan to replace)
On 6ft high pole in garden next to house. Modern housing estate location with small garden.
Over 10mtrs of cable up side of house, into and across loft, down through ceiling into home cinema room. (cable drops signal strength by about 20pts but does not effect signal quality score).
Manhattan Plaza XT-F Satellite Reciever (got it cheap for reasonably fast blindscan and sensitive tuner with 1-45Msps capability)

 

[satelliteman]

Moteck SG-2100 DiSEqC motorised mount (toy - piece of junk, plan to replace)

If set up correctly and maintained, they will perform perfectly well for years on a suitably sized dish such as an 85cm.

 

[Lazarus]

If set up correctly and maintained, they will perform perfectly well for years on a suitably sized dish such as an 85cm.

Absolutely. Good, inexpensive, utility Motor.

I have one on an 80cm that has never given any trouble at all in years and I have a clone driving a TD110 in a sheltered location.

Kept within spec. as regards weight and wind loading, they are a good bit of kit.

 

[Vipersan]

..I totally agree with Gordon ..
I had my SG2100 driving the same TD110 dish for almost 2 years ...and only replaced it recently with a 'dark motor' ..
The SG2100 wasn't scrapped as it was still fully functional ...
..it was simply moved to another installation driving a steel 80cm dish.
A good all round workhorse providing it isn't overloaded - dish wise

rgds

 

[dovercat]

"If set up correctly and maintained, they will perform perfectly well for years on a suitably sized dish such as an 85cm." satelliteman

"Absolutely. Good, inexpensive, utility Motor." Tivù

"A good all round workhorse providing it isn't overloaded - dish wise" Vipersan


So much love for moteck. I take it the set up correctly and maintained is to shift the blame for any perceived failings on the user.

For a mesh 85cm dish it maybe fine. But Moteck rates their motor for upto a 1.2mtr solid dish. That is just over twice the surface area of a 85cm dish, and mesh dishes usually suffer 40% less windloading than solid. I certainly would not trust it to hold a 1.2mtr solid dish in an exposed location, without buckling in strong winds, it is mostly aluminium. Moteck make no claim as to resistance to windloading at all, in Moteck land it is always calm skys and if the mount fails it is your problem. Claiming suitablility for larger dishes to get more sales, than it will reliably hold is immoral. The better made similar Stab motor only claims suitability for upto 95cm dish, and the similar SatControl motor only claims upto 85cm dish.
Mine is in a sheltered location with a 1.1mtr dish (I just measured it 113x102cm so 13kg, could not remeber if I ended up buying the 1mtr or 1.1mtr.). Before I replaced my old echostar receiver/positioner I used a 36v motor mount the Jaeger SMR-99G H-H which is built like a tank in comparison to the moteck but only rated for upto a 1.1mtr dish. Previously to that back in the days of analogue I had a polarmount and actuator, in an exposed location with a 1mtr solid dish that mount got buckled despite being massively more robust and sturdy than a moteck sg2100a.

The beam width to -3dB for a 85cm dish is 2.2degrees, for a 1.2mtr dish it is about 1.6degrees, so you need the motor to be more accurate the larger the dish. The moteck claims a count accuracy of 0.15degrees, but the mount also has play in it which means it does not reliably go to the exact same point in the arc, and only has one hall sensor in it so can lose accurate count over time. Mine is no way accurate to 0.15degrees. It is usually fine on powerful satellites as being slightly off alignment lower signal is not a problem, weaker satellites is another matter. I sometimes have to manually tell it to nudge or move the dish to get in alignment with the satellite position. So yeah it works fine if you do not mine manually aligning the dish when it is suppose to be automatic, or diy modifying the mount to remove any play.

It does not make any reference to needing maintaince and claims to have a quiet motor. But due to the play it needs oiling to stop it from vibrating as the motor strains causing the dish to reverberate making a racket. Thats ok if it is garden mounted like mine, but what about on the side of a house. So yeah it works fine if you do not mine a suposedly maintance free mount that actually requires oiling to prevent a product promoted as having a quiet motor acutually making a racket.

It also depends what satellites you want to track since the design is such that it puts most strain on the motor at extremes of the arc. After about three years of use mine will nolonger move beyond 43-45degrees East, as it automatically cuts off the motor, and no it is not due to hardware or software limits being on or obstruction to the dish. I may take it apart and see if I can fix it, but would not describe that as maintance. The thing should last at least 5years preferably decades. For non diy satellite enthusiasts having a dish motor mount replaced and dish setup again, is going to cost alot more than the <£35 a moteck sg2100a costs.

I picked it up for about £25 incl delivery and it works, so I suppose I should not complaint too much. Since I have a meter and setup the dish myself rather than paying someone to do it, I also only have myself to blame for buying the cheapest motorised mount. I could also have a poor example of the motor since despite the best efforts of quality control, you will always get the occasional lemon getting out the door. One unsatisfied customer usually makes alot more noise than a hundred happy ones, so my opinions my be marred by an atypical experience

I noticed you all seem to use the Triax TD110, how big is it and how heavy is it? It seems to be sold as 1.1mtr but according to the Triax flyer it is 100x105cm. My Televes dish is 102x113cm 13kg while I think the moteck would be better suited to a 80cm mesh dish.

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Dovercat ...
The TD110 is indeed a relatively heavy steel dish with what I beleve to be exceptionally high gain qualities for its size..
I suspect this is why its much loved ..
It weighs in at around 17kg I believe ...and has given sterling service ..as has the SG2100 ...
In fact the reason the TD110 was taken down and moved to a dark motor ...was actually nothing to do with the motor at all ..
It was in an exposed location being partly above gutter line ...and constant buffeting by wind actually damaged the dish clamp where dish meets motor stubb ..
I saw the opportunity to repair the dish and fit in a slightly more sheltered location on the same wall ..but further over and below the gutter line...and with a new motor ..which claimed better support for dishes over 1mtre..
The sg2100 was duly greased and pressed back into service driving a steel 80cm dish..
During this time the motek motor was examined and found to have almost zero play ..even after severe wind loading ...and still tracks the arc perfectly from 60E to 60W ..
rgds
VS

 

[Lazarus]

No oil or grease ever used on either of mine.

 

[bigtee]

I got a Moteck SG2100 driving a 1m Orbital dish --- no problems.

 

[Robbo]

I noticed you all seem to use the Triax TD110, how big is it and how heavy is it? It seems to be sold as 1.1mtr but according to the Triax flyer it is 100x105cm.

The TD110 is approx 110cm high by about 102cm wide. Got one on my TM2300 motor, essentially the same as the Moteck. Its been fine so far, but only had it less than a year.