Log in
Register
Menu
Log in
Register
Home
What's new
Latest activity
Authors
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Miscellaneous Sections
Tech Head - The Technology Section
Einstein's Alcove
Can a lightbulb be conscious?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="2old4this" data-source="post: 18308" data-attributes="member: 174998"><p>@Wolsty - </p><p>nowhere in my arguments above did I state a belief that a computer or any other electro/mechanical device can simulate consciousness. All I stated was that I have a fervent conviction that there is a physical mechanism that gives rise to consciousness (i.e. as opposed to a non-physical mechanism). </p><p></p><p></p><p>In the lightbulb hypothesis, we artfully sidestep the issue of HOW we know at exactly which moment in time each flash has to take place. We can only know that if we have completely mapped the billions upon billions of neurons and fully modelled/understood all of their interactions. To do that, we would effectively have had to recreate (at least in some "informational" sense if not through a detailed physical model) the brain we are studying. We might recreate it as a detailed bit of knowledge in some pre-existing brain, or as a computer model, or as a physical (perhaps even organic) model. But whatever the chosen method, I believe that we would have recreated in that model the consciousness of the brain we are studying. So yes, we would be left with a lightbulb going on an off at apparently the right moments, but only because it was being directed to do so by a consciousness elsewhere. </p><p></p><p>Nevertheless we might still argue that the lightbulb is conscious. In other words, we might argue that what we have actually done is <em>duplicate</em> the consciousness of the original brain - it is now in both the external model <em>and</em> the lightbulb. </p><p></p><p>Personally I tend towards that view. That's because I prefer to think in terms of there being some kind of informational field arising from the switching of all those neurons, with consciousness emerging in that field. The alternative view would be that the informational/conscious field somehow exists as a precursor to the neuronal activity - in which case one is bound to ask where the information carrying this consciousness was coming from in the first place. </p><p></p><p>By the way, it should not be shocking or surprising to think that we may one day succeed in reproducing consciousness in a simple device. We tend to think of consciousness as being incredibly complex because the only example of it we have to study seems to arise so ineffably from that most complex of organs, the brain. But the human body did not evolve as necessarily the <em>simplest</em> solution to a problem - rather as just a <em>working</em> solution. It's quite reasonable to think that there may have been other ways of generating it that would have been far simpler. </p><p></p><p>2old</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="2old4this, post: 18308, member: 174998"] @Wolsty - nowhere in my arguments above did I state a belief that a computer or any other electro/mechanical device can simulate consciousness. All I stated was that I have a fervent conviction that there is a physical mechanism that gives rise to consciousness (i.e. as opposed to a non-physical mechanism). In the lightbulb hypothesis, we artfully sidestep the issue of HOW we know at exactly which moment in time each flash has to take place. We can only know that if we have completely mapped the billions upon billions of neurons and fully modelled/understood all of their interactions. To do that, we would effectively have had to recreate (at least in some "informational" sense if not through a detailed physical model) the brain we are studying. We might recreate it as a detailed bit of knowledge in some pre-existing brain, or as a computer model, or as a physical (perhaps even organic) model. But whatever the chosen method, I believe that we would have recreated in that model the consciousness of the brain we are studying. So yes, we would be left with a lightbulb going on an off at apparently the right moments, but only because it was being directed to do so by a consciousness elsewhere. Nevertheless we might still argue that the lightbulb is conscious. In other words, we might argue that what we have actually done is [I]duplicate[/I] the consciousness of the original brain - it is now in both the external model [I]and[/I] the lightbulb. Personally I tend towards that view. That's because I prefer to think in terms of there being some kind of informational field arising from the switching of all those neurons, with consciousness emerging in that field. The alternative view would be that the informational/conscious field somehow exists as a precursor to the neuronal activity - in which case one is bound to ask where the information carrying this consciousness was coming from in the first place. By the way, it should not be shocking or surprising to think that we may one day succeed in reproducing consciousness in a simple device. We tend to think of consciousness as being incredibly complex because the only example of it we have to study seems to arise so ineffably from that most complex of organs, the brain. But the human body did not evolve as necessarily the [I]simplest[/I] solution to a problem - rather as just a [I]working[/I] solution. It's quite reasonable to think that there may have been other ways of generating it that would have been far simpler. 2old [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Miscellaneous Sections
Tech Head - The Technology Section
Einstein's Alcove
Can a lightbulb be conscious?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top