Advice Needed Cell Phone Reception with a beam

Spiff

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As well as 2100MHz for 3G, Three in the UK also use 800MHz (as well as other bands) for the 4G LTE signal, especially in rural areas. Being a lower frequency, it tends to carry better. I would say these days the 4G signal is more robust than the 3G one - you may get a better signal than the 2100MHz 3G one without an extra antenna.

In fact, if you look on Three's estimated coverage map here - Check your network coverage | Three they seem to reckon that the 4G signal is indeed better (well, less marginal) around your location than the 3G one.

What's the model of the phone you've got?

You can get a basic 4G capable phone for around £30-£40 these days, which may not be much different price-wise to an antenna set-up, as a first try.

I've just checked, and Three sell the Alcatel 1 (a cheap phone but running Android) for £29.99 - it's 4G capable and supports the 800MHz signal (Band 20).

I would guess around that part of Cornwall that an external mobile phone aerial would make it more likely that you end up accidentally roaming on Orange France, unless it's directional! Although the distances are probably still too far for the phone to be able to 'handshake' with the French network rather than just receive the downlink signal from a mast.
Hallo Adam792,

The phone is a Sony Xperia T3, three only say their 4 voice over covers, but I do not beleive it does, their maps are vague and we are in a deep valley.

There are thousands of tourists pass on the road to the harbour by our gift shop and I have never seen one on the phone. : )

Our tenants have up to date phones on different networks, but no signal, they have contracts and use our WI FI.

The cliffs either side of us rise way above the height of the building.

As far a UHF TV goes we are a no signal spot, but I have it on a high mast, it must bend more than the phone frequency's plus the power.

I am going to start by erecting another mast as the present one has anemometers and a UHF aerial filling it up.

Once I have another mast up, I shall try some of the suggestions kindly submitted from the most knowledgeable gentlemen.

The images try to show how deep we are in the valley, its not a good day raining and dark.

God Bless Spiff
 

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Terryl

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You guys need to remember that this is a two way street, you may get a signal indication on the phone from the cell tower, but will your weaky squeaky 200 milliwatt return signal from your hand held phone be able to make it back to the tower??

This is why the stuff I mentioned has a bi-directional signal amp, one to amplify the incoming signal, and transmit it at the panel antenna in you flat/office/store and then change to a different channel to transmit the return signal from your phone back to the tower, via the yagi at the top of the mast at a high enough level to make it back.
 

Spiff

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Hallo Terry1,

I realise it is amplified both ways on split frequency's, first I must install another mast to give any repeater a fair chance.

I have worked on PMR with talk through, 4.8 mc/s spacing, with large aerial filters to stop the receiver being desensitised : )

Mostly old Pye F27 and F30 base stations, it was some years ago.

God Bless Spiff
 

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Hallo Adam792,

The phone is a Sony Xperia T3, three only say their 4 voice over covers, but I do not beleive it does, their maps are vague and we are in a deep valley.

There are thousands of tourists pass on the road to the harbour by our gift shop and I have never seen one on the phone. : )

Our tenants have up to date phones on different networks, but no signal, they have contracts and use our WI FI.

The cliffs either side of us rise way above the height of the building.

As far a UHF TV goes we are a no signal spot, but I have it on a high mast, it must bend more than the phone frequency's plus the power.

I am going to start by erecting another mast as the present one has anemometers and a UHF aerial filling it up.

Once I have another mast up, I shall try some of the suggestions kindly submitted from the most knowledgeable gentlemen.

The images try to show how deep we are in the valley, its not a good day raining and dark.

God Bless Spiff

That Sony Xperia phone should be 4G capable anyway as far as I know (although maybe only 1800MHz band and not 800MHz). The "4G voice" is 800MHz on Three I believe, all it means is that you can make calls on it if you wish (it's all IP rather than the circuit-switched voice call system used on 2G/3G). Originally with 4G, the networks didn't support voice calls as it requires them to support IP-based calls as well as standard GSM circuit-switched ones. Phones would fall back onto 3G/2G on making or receiving a call before this was put in place. My phone (also on Three) will now happily stay on 4G on calls - in fact I rarely ever see it on 3G nowadays for any reason!

If your antenna solution struggles with the 2100MHz 3G signal, maybe it will have more luck with the 800MHz 4G signal. Technically a bog-standard UHF antenna from before the 700/800MHz TV clearance, especially a C/D group - would be perfect for these signals!

As an aside, I bet your location is fantastic for hearing FM radio stations from France and even northern Spain during high pressure! :)
 

Spiff

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That Sony Xperia phone should be 4G capable anyway as far as I know (although maybe only 1800MHz band and not 800MHz). The "4G voice" is 800MHz on Three I believe, all it means is that you can make calls on it if you wish (it's all IP rather than the circuit-switched voice call system used on 2G/3G). Originally with 4G, the networks didn't support voice calls as it requires them to support IP-based calls as well as standard GSM circuit-switched ones. Phones would fall back onto 3G/2G on making or receiving a call before this was put in place. My phone (also on Three) will now happily stay on 4G on calls - in fact I rarely ever see it on 3G nowadays for any reason!

If your antenna solution struggles with the 2100MHz 3G signal, maybe it will have more luck with the 800MHz 4G signal. Technically a bog-standard UHF antenna from before the 700/800MHz TV clearance, especially a C/D group - would be perfect for these signals!

As an aside, I bet your location is fantastic for hearing FM radio stations from France and even northern Spain during high pressure! :)
You are correct Adam792, I recall being parked at Rosudgeon car boot sale on the way to Penzance one year and hearing a lot of continental FM station on the car radio : )

I got my first Technomate from there, they cancelled the boot sale this year : (

If you are ever in Cornwall, it covers a football pitch, free parking and entry, every Wednesday 10 till 2 3 ish.

I have found all sorts, 405 TVs, Valves, old clocks, just about anything you could think of.
 

Spiff

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Terryl

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That Sony Xperia phone should be 4G capable anyway as far as I know (although maybe only 1800MHz band and not 800MHz). The "4G voice" is 800MHz on Three I believe, all it means is that you can make calls on it if you wish (it's all IP rather than the circuit-switched voice call system used on 2G/3G). Originally with 4G, the networks didn't support voice calls as it requires them to support IP-based calls as well as standard GSM circuit-switched ones. Phones would fall back onto 3G/2G on making or receiving a call before this was put in place. My phone (also on Three) will now happily stay on 4G on calls - in fact I rarely ever see it on 3G nowadays for any reason!

If your antenna solution struggles with the 2100MHz 3G signal, maybe it will have more luck with the 800MHz 4G signal. Technically a bog-standard UHF antenna from before the 700/800MHz TV clearance, especially a C/D group - would be perfect for these signals!

As an aside, I bet your location is fantastic for hearing FM radio stations from France and even northern Spain during high pressure! :)
It maybe would be OK for reception, but not for transmission back to the cell site, you would loose more in the return signal due to coax loss.
 

Spiff

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Good evening from a 0C Mullion Cove

I have some items on the way on sale or return for 60 days.

The gentleman called John installs them as well as selling them on Ebay.

He has good feed back.

Listing

Watch this space : )

God Bless Spiff

The purpose of these kits is to take the good signal from outside your property and redistribute it around the inside of your property.

Please note that these amplifier kits contain a single band amplifier which is network specific and therefore fully compliant with Ofcom policies (Apr 2018)

They are fully ISO, RoHS and CE compliant. This amplifier is for the Three network This will amplify the signal over approximately 300sqm so ideal for a 2 bed bungalow,3 bed semi detached, 3 bed flat etc.

Included in the price is a 12 month guarantee

This kit comprises the following items



Single band Booster 2100mhz with 300sqm range
Power Supply
Instructions
Indoor dome antenna and bracket
External log period antenna and bracket
External yagi antenna 2100Mhz and bracket
External or Internal Panel antenna and bracket
Various 5m, 10m and 15m cables
Two way splitter
Cable couplers to join the cables to make a longer cable if required.

As agreed I'm going to offer you a 60 day trial on this so you can have a play and try various setups and options without the need for a fixed investment as if the kit doesn't work for you then let me know and I'll have it collected at your convenience.

If you need anything else then please let me know and I'll see what I can do to assist.


Thank you

John.
 

ozumo

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Spiff were you able to get this to work? :)
 

Spiff

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Spiff were you able to get this to work? :)
Hallo Ozumo,

No luck so far on the roof, I am going to try another spot with a longer pole.

We did take the system up onto the cliff and battery powed the amplifier.

It boosted the low signal there, so it does work well.

Today is my 75th birthday so we have visitors, I will if it is not blowing a gale and hammering down with rain, we will be trying again tomorrow : )

God Bless Spiff
 

Topper

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Hallo Ozumo,

No luck so far on the roof, I am going to try another spot with a longer pole.

We did take the system up onto the cliff and battery powed the amplifier.

It boosted the low signal there, so it does work well.

Today is my 75th birthday so we have visitors, I will if it is not blowing a gale and hammering down with rain, we will be trying again tomorrow : )

God Bless Spiff
Happy birthday Spiff, yes best have friends around before the whole country goes in level 4 lockdown
 

Channel Hopper

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Nowt wrong with tier 4, there are plenty worse.

5, 6, 7,........

Many happy returns for tomorrow.
 

Spiff

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Thank you gentleman for the good wishes. : )

I am grateful to have reached 75, having had friends and family who have not been as fortunate : (

Our Grandson Aidan of 8 years lost his Dad last year, he has been here today playing with my VR unit, it is amazing how quickly they cotton on to the touch controls.

He soon messed up a virtual room on the Steam platform LOL

A very happy Christmas to you all, I enjoy the time I spend on the forum and appreciate all the advice.

God Bless Spiff
 

Spiff

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Good afternoon from a sunny but chilly Mullion Cove Cornwall.

We spent some time soon after it arrived and then again recently after all the rain and winds stopped : )

I could not send Alanna up on the roof in that weather, I am not totally heartless LOL

We used a telescopic mast, trying both aerials in lots of different places.

No results unfortunately.

I took it all up on the cliff by the Mullion Cove Hotel, where there is a signal and it proved to be working fine, peaking up on a known cell and boosting the signal.

Sadly I have to return it as the seller agreed : (

I think the signal our phone detected while I stood on the roof with the phone held up high in the scan for a signal test mode, was just very weak signals from the tower, not a two way communication from the phone, given it low power compared with the tower.

I did another scan in Helston down a dip where the phone showed no signal, it registered a lot of suppliers including three, but would not connect.

In a completely dead spot in the scan mode it shows nothing so the scan can be believed : )

I think I have found a way round receiving text, with a spare phone and our daughter who lives in a good reception area : )

God Bless Spiff
 

Channel Hopper

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Which directions did you point the yagi to for signal ?

(and which polarity ? )
 

Spiff

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Spiff

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Which directions did you point the yagi to for signal ?

(and which polarity ? )
Good evening Channel Hopper, A Happy New Year to you and your family : )

Both the aerials had mounts that were designed for vertical polarization.

We swung the beams many times in all directions, at our location in Mullion Cove at the bottom of the cliff.

We also tested it up on the cliff top by the hotel to make sure all was performing ok, (we used a battery pack for the repeater unit there), we found the only signal which peaked on the beam was just west of North.

This was also the tower that showed on the app on my phone.

God Bless Spiff
 

Channel Hopper

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One way this can be done is by a spatial separation of the antenna i.e. mounting the antenna with a gap between them of a few inches. But this assumes that the polarization of the signal is vertical. What I mean is the radio waves are polarized up and down, this isn't very likely. The radio waves might have left the transmitter mast nicely arranged vertically but after a few reflections then god knows what the orientation of the radio waves will be; they certainly won't still be nice and vertical. So using a couple of antenna setup to receive waves which are only vertically polarized is not the best setup. A better antenna configuration is to orientate the two antenna in a cross pattern. This way each antenna is at 90 degrees to the other so it means you're more likely to pick up a signal over a range of polarizations.

Omni or directional


My advice is go for an omni. We get a lot of directional antenna back from customers but very few omni types. The reason for this is the customer has just jumped on the antenna which offers the biggest gain for your buck and this invariably means a directional antenna. However most people do NOT have line of sight to the mast so an omni is the way to go.



Just saying.
 

Spiff

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Hallo Channel Hopper,

Thank you for the link.

I had 60 days to try the equipment, there is some time left I think but it is hard going with the weather, it would have been better if I had tried it in the summer.

We certainly tried our best and spent a lot of time on it, despite freezing hands : )

I had not thought about the polarization changing with reflected signals, you are of course correct.

Many years ago when I got my first amateur radio licence G8HIX now G0RIT, I had both a halo and a vertical in the car on 2 meters.

I remember having the same polarity as the other station was best, but I agree that reflected signals came change polarity.

There are so many variables.

I have never seen a tourist using a phone down here and we see thousands.

We have also to take the winds into consideration with mast height, we are exposed due West out to sea to extreme gales.

It was interesting and fun to try, the equipment is now all packed and John will be getting it picked up.

He is a good man and I do not hesitate to recommend his service, at least you know you have the correct bits that should work if there is anything there.

God Bless Spiff
 
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