Advice Needed DAB in France

there was an old scheme that looked interesting,using LW and MW in a different way,offering acceptable sound and the long distances of LW. It was very convenient to keep BBC4 in Benelux & North france while traveling by cars ,,or France Inter in Spain/Italy ...Will Dab ever offer this?
BBCworld service (on 648MW) worked fine in South france when night came. Now you need a computer or satellite.So,not while driving!
 
That would be Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)

www.drm.org

DRM Digital Radio Mondiale

DRM is the only global digital radio standard that embraces all the currently used radio frequency bands. It has been designed specifically as a high-quality digital replacement for former analogue radio broadcasting in the AM and FM/VHF bands; as such it can be operated with the same...
www.drm.org www.drm.org
 
PaulR said:
That would be Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)

www.drm.org

DRM Digital Radio Mondiale

DRM is the only global digital radio standard that embraces all the currently used radio frequency bands. It has been designed specifically as a high-quality digital replacement for former analogue radio broadcasting in the AM and FM/VHF bands; as such it can be operated with the same...
www.drm.org www.drm.org
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This looks great & would provide international coverage... any chance it replaces DAB?
 
Not that I know of. DRM was developed to use the barrow frequency that a single AM signal would occupy, whether on LW, MW or SW. Bar a few exceptions, it hasn't really taken off. Which is a shame as it seems to offer an improvement in quality compared to AM.. Mind you, that's not a high bar to get over!
 
Back in 2016/2017 the French did a DRM test on 1071khz from a 20kW transmitter at Quimeric'h in Brittany. It was a 9khz wide signal carrying France Bleu in stereo easily received after dark in the UK. The attached file is a recording I made just before close down one day.
 

Attachments

rodscha said:
there was an old scheme that looked interesting,using LW and MW in a different way,offering acceptable sound and the long distances of LW. It was very convenient to keep BBC4 in Benelux & North france while traveling by cars ,,or France Inter in Spain/Italy ...Will Dab ever offer this?
BBCworld service (on 648MW) worked fine in South france when night came. Now you need a computer or satellite.So,not while driving!
Click to expand...
There is/was a project using the VHF frequencies and modulating the digital within it (FM HD ?).


Being based on analogue however meant the pitchforks would always be twitching.
 

Around 17m onwards, (apologies for the Gramerrrrlie adverts)
 
rodscha said:
so,FM remins the best available solution... then,what 's thepoint of DAB? just selling more radio receivers?
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On a technical basis, DAB (even it's original MP2 form as opposed to the more modern DAB+) is capable of delivering better sound quality that FM, especially at higher audio listening frequencies. FM audio is restricted to 15kHz at the high end of the audio range, which would give a rough equivalent of a digital sampling rate of 32kHz, whereas the MP2 & AAC audio codecs can handle a digital sampling rate of 48kHz. Though you'd have to be of a fairly young age to appreciate the difference as the higher frequency end of a person's hearing diminishes with age. For example those station playing music largely limited to the 1990's at the latest could reduce their AAC sampling rate to 32kHz and almost no one of the target audience listening would notice the high end missing - by reducing the sampling frequency means more bits can be dedicated to the portions of the audio spectrum that such people can hear! (32kHz sampling isn't allowed on original flavoured MP2 DAB, the only allowable sampling rates are IIRC 48kHz and 24kHz, the latter used for mainly speech based stations like BBC Radio 5 Live & TalkSport - though Q Radio uses it in Northern Ireland for their DAB stream with a 64kbps bitrate!)

As for DRM, it's essentially dead outside of India. Its original promotion was for LW/MW/SW bands but unless you're running "double channels" of 18-20kHz wide, the available bitrate even at lower protection levels delivered marginal audio performance levels that many whom complain about the audio quality of some DAB(+) broadcasts would go apoplectic at! Even in India, it's only All-India Radio that is pushing it in parallel with its MW broadcasts, and listening to some of its DRM broadcasts recorded off air, the quality is pretty poor.

HD Radio is the brand name for the propriety IBOC system used by some stations in North America, and is designed to be used on both the FM & MW bands. Some folks that managed to reverse engineer the system to help make it work on SDR radios found that the audio codec is a modified AAC one which gives similar results for a given bitrate.
 
So,DAB for the young,why wouldn tthe 40+,a vast majority of present radio listeners,keep on with FM?
Seems like here in France no-one really cares about DAB...the motorway radio system works fine on FM & you dont need high quality to know which petrol station has diesel etc!!,& where traffic jams are
 
rodscha said:
So,DAB for the young,why wouldn tthe 40+,a vast majority of present radio listeners,keep on with FM?
Seems like here in France no-one really cares about DAB...the motorway radio system works fine on FM & you dont need high quality to know which petrol station has diesel etc!!,& where traffic jams are
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DAB (at least in this country) was promoted as 'better quality' than analogue services.

Somewhat misleading if the broadcast is diluted to substandard bitrate and mono, with FM in a car you could switch to 'non DX' and switch off the stereo for a similar effect (adjusting the tone to temper the hiss).

Now, it's all about local radio and smallscaling.

Small-scale DAB network - United Kingdom | WorldDAB

Note the last link on the left regarding emergency radio, hardly groundbreaking.
 
is a DAB transmitter notably cheaper than a local 20-30km radius FM transmitter?
Here the local stations do not wish to change system,as that would mean an expensive way of losing their audience!
 
the LW to FM switch over took over 20 years before FM coverage was good enough..in France .AND the quality did improve!
 
SimonE said:
Back in 2016/2017 the French did a DRM test on 1071khz from a 20kW transmitter at Quimeric'h in Brittany. It was a 9khz wide signal carrying France Bleu in stereo easily received after dark in the UK. The attached file is a recording I made just before close down one day.
Click to expand...
That's pretty good quality in my book.
 
We have a lot of DAB radio in Paris and the Paris region.
But the quality is really very far from FM.
I don't have high end DAB receivers but the compression is so high that I don't think a better radio really gives a better result.

Personally, I stopped using DAB because of this.
I find it too smothered.

1666598723192.png
 
zorrin said:
We have a lot of DAB radio in Paris and the Paris region.
But the quality is really very far from FM.
I don't have high end DAB receivers but the compression is so high that I don't think a better radio really gives a better result.

Personally, I stopped using DAB because of this.
I find it too smothered.

View attachment 145606
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The majority of those seem to be music oriented, and many are duplicates of the current FM lineup.

Radio in Paris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If DAB was used for content more akin to talk/chat show , (Radio 4 / LBC etc.) it might have a chance.
 
well if you re in Paris ... and then you get more stations on FM...
good point would be if the radius was lke 800kms then everyone could listen to that bunch...in which case it would be an improvement... yet now,in Toulouse you get a ridiculous list...and in Carcassonne 50,000 inh. ...only FM!
 
at least id'd be great to get FIP for music,RFI and BBC world service for news... the rest we already have!
 
Channel Hopper said:
The majority of those seem to be music oriented, and many are duplicates of the current FM lineup.

Radio in Paris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If DAB was used for content more akin to talk/chat show , (Radio 4 / LBC etc.) it might have a chance.
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I believe that even a phonograph has a better frequency response than DAB in France...
It's very close to AM without the fluctuations in my opinion.
i'm kidding a bit
but how is it possible that in the end quality is denied for the sole benefit of quantity?
Even a talkshow is hard to follow.
I have an idea, release the Blu Rays in 320X240 in mono and put 4 days of film...
 
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