Digital satellite indoors, oh yes

[christian_cov]

Edited, sorry guys.

 

[christian_cov]

second minidish with sky 0.6db moved to outside, lnb covered, but I suspect in time water will get in.

So remember inside best ever figures on the 65cm solid fortec dish were about:

65cm dish titanium 0.2db hole cut in and covered with cling film, inside 13.0 East Hotbird on 11013H 41 to 51% absolute max, marine biz channel.
Same dish again inside through double glazing and net curtains for frequency 11054H 40 to 49%, 51% max.

43cm minidish same frequencies, but now outside:
11013H at around 70-71% max and for the 11054 sport channel about 60-62%.

Howeverm weird, the dubai sports on 11746, or 11747H is still 51%, go figure, seems some have improved alot and others not, hmm, oh well, anyway, only time will tell if water gets into the lnb, risk, who knows if it would have made any difference as it was originally.

I'm not moving the minidish, stay on that 13.0E as will other one stay on the 28.0East ones, means swapping cables, but no big deal, do for downstairs and upstairs stick with my motorized hand, lol, for the 65cm dish, means now I can move that about and I've found doing that, different places in the bedroom can get me some satellites better, signal wise.

Thanks guys, case closed now really.

 

[christian_cov]

Question for you guys, seeing as the horizon goes, you know, how can I explain it, never good with words I'm afraid, around, as you go to left or right of south, not just a case of moving the dish left and right and up and down, but, here it comes, can you alter the angle of your dish or the skew with a motor.

Advantage outside, more power, I've seen that 43cm dish compared to my 65cm one inside, but if using a motor you can not alter the lnb, needs to be moved by hand all the time, could pose a problem for many, unless you can get access to it, say via a balcony setup, so on.

Other way as I've taped the cable to the arm and this means moving the skew is bit more difficult, only goes so much, is to tilt the dish, put something under the leg, whatever, if you can, whatever it is on.

Anyway, could not understand for a minute how to get the 61% I'd recorded on the 42.0 East one, it was like 31 to 40% signal qaulity, strange.
I gave up in the end, went to 39.0 East, hellas sat, but again nothing much, moved the dish back into more central position in the room, oh I though, move the lnb left a bit, sure enough signal started to come up more.
Put some terminal blocks, lol, don't ask, can use anything really to make the dish lean over to the left.
Clearly where a satellite is, call me thick, still really learning, new to it all, my thing was ondigital and itv digital, tv aerials, so on, not satellite until this year, though had sky fta since may 2003. But clearly, one must account for where it is and that it comes in straight where it is over, oh you know, say it is over Italy kind of thing, they would point south and dish be straight and all, but for us the signal comes in at an angel, so we need to not only move the dish left, (1), maybe point it lower (2), but also to angle it as well, tilting left, or moving the lnb or whatever way your skewing works to the left more.
Now this would explain the posting one, forget who or where, but you guys will know, on this forum of the smaller black like dish, might have even been mesh that was sideways and he reported better signal gains.

12.524 v 53%
12606 h 54% plus, these are the maximum flashed up, be always maybe bit lower than this on average, but was able to lock and load channels in.

So guys, hmm, do we have any women on this forum, whose hobby is being a satellite spotter, just curious, anyway, can you alter the angle as well, if not, this explains the many forum postings I'm reading of people saying, can't get this one, can't get that, and others advice all the time of try bigger dish, try bigger dish.

If I can be in a dip, trees over field, though bare and houses at back roofs and so on, see my sites webcam picture, thing is, and inside, through windows and net curtains, oh you know, said enough times, this if for newer membes, then, oh and being fortec 65cm solid dish, I remain convinced surely a good solid 70cm dish should be all that is needed to get every darn satellite from east to west, strong signals anyway, least something on all, etc.

I struggle I admit with 16.0E, say the best is 19.2, Eurosport, about 81%.

If you want the weakest of the weak, I'm no expert, then sure, get your darn big 1 metre, good only know what dish set up.
But I keep finding on my smaller dishes indoors I can achieve channels and satellites, well I'm contantly being told, okay led to believe is beyond me.
Okay sunner clear, not windy day, but often at nights with ordinary curtains drawn, even raining, cloudy I've still pretty much got the same.

In fact the beauty is, rain, who cares, snow who cares, gale force winds, who cares, motors noise, assuming they make any, cost of them, so on, again, no worries.

Well? Can you, if not, you might try, only if you can safely get to it, skewing that lnb, or tilting it sideways, so on, it might just improve your signal and get you those channels you could not get before, give it a go, please let me know how you get on.

I'm happy to help with information, while I know many of you laugh, know already what I know, have 80% plus on every darn satellite on your fantastic motorized2.4 metre superdish, lol, Please, please spare a thought for those in flats, those with no permission to have a dish on the outside as had been discussed on here often enough I'm sure.
So long as you have big enough window, faces south, you should least be alright to try the sky one's if nothing else.

I hope my latest information can be of use to someone anyway, think, if what I can get inside, imagine what you could get outside, don't always assume big is better, tweak the one you have, see just how much you can and could get out of it.
Happy satellite spotting, amen.

 

[christian_cov]

Hmm, interesting, unless it's just weather conditions again.
Today, risked spending more money through the nose at B&Q, meaning no doubt cheaper else where, but now guess what.

All I've done lnb wise take off cling film, put clear plastic over it that I bought a switcher in from B&Q which seems to only lose 1 to 3% to chuffed, quick now for switching, press button A or B and I have either sky or hotbird downstairs. Anyway upstairs as many of you know with my indoor operation, been using this 65cm fortect with what I believe might be that maplin thicker 125 whatever it is called cable.

Today having bought pf100 I decided to make it around 3 metres, little longer so I could have option moving the dish further over to the left side of the room, never know, might finally get 12.5W or 30.0W, but still doubtful, things in the way over back, trees and all.
But I put the darn sport channel on 13.0E on 11054H and now getting 60 to 63%, so gone up like 10%, hmm.

Noe somewhere, hard going trying to find stuff on google sometimes, I'm sure I'd read that too short a cable and I so found this out with TV ariel operations, that it can be as bad as having too long a cable.

Maybe just coincidence and something weird is going on, but today is like yesterday, noq almost 12 midday and all water gone, burned off by the sun, meaning no frost should remain, sunny, like yesterday.

Could the cable swap have done this alone, I'll wait to see tonight as I always find the sport channel drops to 40% and can not get it as soon as it goes dark.
If it remains at 50% and I get it, I'll know the cable was the trick, but is the better foam cable, or the fact that increasing the length has, well, you know, strange as it is made it better than as short as possible, only what, say another 2 foot plus longer, weird eh.

Anyway, oh the rest seem pretty much the same, have to check.

Thanks Guys.

 

[Analoguesat]

I thought I'd post this seeing how Analoguesat hasn't yet, it's a Zone2 dish on an Analoguesat Patented Universal Dish Mounting Device (aka a car tyre!!!) in a student's dorm room at university:

http://www.selkirkshire.demon.co.uk/analoguesat/windowdish2.html

As for the Titanium LNB, some say they're better than other LNBs in performance, others say the opposite, it all depends on how yours was assembled as they're not all 100% identical, and also they don't work well on oval dishes as they need the correct feedhorn, try a Wistron one instead as they're supposed to be better than the older LNBs supplied with the dishes...

Id forgotten about those pics on my site

 

[2cvbloke]

Noe somewhere, hard going trying to find stuff on google sometimes, I'm sure I'd read that too short a cable and I so found this out with TV ariel operations, that it can be as bad as having too long a cable.

Yep, somewhere on the web (maybe Satcure, here, Digital spy etc) was mentioned that if a cable's too short, a high signal can overload a receiver's tuner, resulting in a poor or no picture, it's a good idea to have a long cable rolled up if it's going to be a very short run...

And analoguesat, how could you forget about someone being inspired by your UDMD?

 

[christian_cov]

yeah seen that, funny things that work eh.

No picture on my sport channel starting to go now.
Weird, read about this night things, sun, battery back up so on.
However another article, or thread somewhere suggested as if the earth did not block the sun from the satellites.

I'll know latter tonight, normally get nothing.

still going up as high as say 49%, but as it begins to get dark it goes, no effect on the minidish through the switch and 60 ft of cable to downstairs receiver, if you can get on outdoors, much better sure.

But if you can't and are happy with few strong transponders on most satellites, cool.

Anyway, thanks Analoguesat, learning it seems myself still, annoying, do something and think, got it, goes up, then later seems as if it was just the day, weather, conditons, yet they are the same as day before and I could not get that high on the quality reading then, go figure springs to mind, lol.

Still I'll soldier on, and hope the longer lighter nights bring it over more, not that I watch the darn channels really, lol, same as I've found out today, most sport is either really unreachable on my dish indoors, meaning often the footprint not even over the UK or it is encripted anyway.

LOL, so, funny, one goes, yippee, got the channels in today at last, after few weeks trying, then finds out non of them are clear anyway, GRRRRR, lol, lives and learns, amen.

Just closed the curtains and breaking up badly, what interests me, is the threshold, if that's the right word.

Meaning the maraine biz channel fine at 40%, no worries, well odd mess up, but the sport channel seems to be only okay at around the 50% mark, 10% higher.
Some channels fine at even 30%, while again another might not even lock at over 40%, weird.
I understand they broadcast signals at different strengths, but the threshold.
Oh well, never mind, lol.

Oh right, thanks 2cv, oh yeah, idiot, not you, me, that's right, had that happen once, testing messing around with one of them, not understand it, thought, oh come on, no way, bbc news 24 outside, that should come in, think it was that, or a christian channel, anyway, trusted it was not the setup, sure enough downstairs it came through.

What length then would you reckon and will this improve my sport channel, will I get more still % ise out of it.
Currently around 3 metres or so, what if I go to 4 metres, not want to start wasting my new expensive pf100 cable, but if it helps, only asking really for that, pretty happy with what I have now, most the other satellites waste of time anyway for me.
Thanks.

 

[christian_cov]

Hmm, hey this is a whole new ball game.

Hard going but did find one suggesting not less than 30 feet, so on.

Thing is making me wonder now, bbc news 24 normally so strong, certainly on any outdoor minidish, like 90%, right.
Yet struggling at around 50% tops breaking up, only work in one place, surely though indoors a 65cm sold dish should least give me, what at a guess 65%, had that 60% today, think was on that, but gone again at nights, lost all my 10% gains.

Now way I'm starting to see it, seems to me, maybe just maybe, for some reason, explains the low frequencies and those on Horizontals, the higher voltage required, think it is the higher for Hoz right, 17 volts, thingy.

Well, you thinking what I'm thinking then, been on that 125 thicker like cable of 8 feet or so, today, same weather conditions I bought some pf100 from B&Q anyway extended this to about 10 feet or so, then, well I found sport channel at a record 61% indoors, only to lose later as got dark again, back to around usual 40% breaking up, mostly black picture on screen now.

So, is it the overload after all, how much is needed.

Every darn where I look, it's long this, long that, no one seems to cover shorter run.

Now thing is, and I've been good, kept it all here, so I don't get told off posting more posts in the wrong places, and being paranoid that I am, feel I'm long past my sell by date, meaning most just ignore me now, but these are serious questions.

Meaning your sitting there either thinking boring who cares, or saying to yourself 'That's because most of us sensible ones coughed up the money in the first place and bought sate of the art outside setups.

BUT, hang on, think, caravans, arrrr, yes, got me thinking too, these so called on holiday in spain people, heck even in this country, do they have and need 50 metres of cable too, no, probably very short I'd imagine, so again I ask what is short, 5 metres, no, 10.
I'm beginning to think 10m, 30 feet odd.
But I wanted to save the cable incase needed in future, have 22m left, go halving it, game over if that does not work.

have two minidishes outside already, not going to put this one out, not needed when all I'm looking for is what, about 5% min on the quality meter.

Annoying is it not, lol, great fun, but also frustrating trying to get something.
Think, today it not only reached the new extra 10% so instead of 50 it was 60%, but getting dark it returns to 40% odd again, not down 10 but 20%, WHAT, exactly, now you get my point, mad.

I've read about window being warm, who knows.

Either cable, window warm, getting dark and satellite on battery, this and that, I give up, mad it is.

 

[2cvbloke]

When I last had my indoor dish up (a fair while back) I just use the cable I had as I didn't want to cut it down as I knew I was going to have to move house again someday, so basically, any decent long length should be better than just a few metres...

Also, I'm sure it's been mentioned, double glazing often has metallic coatings that can interfere with and even block signals, so if your dish works perfectly OK outdoors, but performs poorly indoors, it's very likely to be your windows...

My old house had single glazed windows so my setup worked quite well, but my current house has DG windows, and none of them face a useful direction or are blocked by trees, so I can't try them...

Hope this is a help...

 

[christian_cov]

Plastic, but might have something inside windows, last night had some 20 metres on plus, today I've decided to go with 6 metres, 20 feet, still have 50 feet left, having used 3 off before, 3 foot 3 inches should have been 82 foot, but looks like it was 80 feet odd.

Anyway, leaves me with 50 feet incase I ever did want to have something outside in the garden, maybe, later.

Oh yeah reason I mention all that is that no difference really, 20 metres to when I have had shorter.

Anyway, guess what, now 10:30am and I'm getting over 50% again on 11054, so can only conclude it is something to do with conditions, propagation, hmm, I spell that right.
Just one of those things, gotten a bit back into Tennis and they show that on the sport channel.
But as soon as it starts to get dark after 5pm the signal starts to get worse.

So I can only conclude now, regardless the cable, which I suspect only helps in about 1% to 2%, nothing really, looking for least 5% more you see, that's all, that is must be the heat on the window, though I'm sure I recall cloudy and rain on window and got the sport channel fine, sort of during the day.
So that leaves me this conditions thing, satellite, sun, battery, whatever, along those lines and have to accept that with the dish inside no chance of getting certain channels.

To put outside means more money yet again, motor and goodness only knows what and nosey people wondering all of a sudden what is going on, lol, minidishes look neat.

Oh yeah, read about this equinox and how solid dish it fries the electronics, charming, March and September right, but has little effect on mesh dishes, who knows.
So with that, and wind and this thin fortect made dish, prefer to keep that one indoors, where easy to play about with it.

Lastly, read something also about the way the signal is coming in, so might be reflecting, hence why I can't have it too high up in the roon, seems to work much lower down, strange.

As for curtains, even nets, moved them back one night, not a jot of difference, still proving my point, very robust.

Just been annoying because when you have something and then it goes at night, well, you know.
All I'm asking for, not the world, though sure it is fun to find more things, feeds and that, oh on that note got one yesterday, good signal as well, think over 40 to 50%, some local like football game, on, on, hmm, think was 5.0 West or 7.0W, and the dancing on ice itv feed, other than that not got much yet.

Yes I recall the sport or marine channel on minidish being about 10 to 15% higher outside, so I'm aware with the 65cm dish I'd probably get that and maybe more, meaning maybe 70% plus for the sport channel, but it's a trade off right.

Well 2cv can not thank you enough, been polite, patient, God bless you Bro, cheers.
Let's hope lighter nights improve things, I'll know for sure then if it's this propagation thing then, though this event up to end of March might play havoc again dropping out sometime for periods, we'll see.

 

[2cvbloke]

The metallic content of the windows isn't just in the frames, it's in the glass, anti-UV stuff or tinting, I haven't a clue what it is but it interferes with the signals by reflectinc parts of it away. In some cases people haven't been able to pick up Horizontal or Vertical channels due to their window's effect on the signal, but it just depends on the type of glass you have...

As for the equinox, as far as I know, there's not been any fried electronics using a solid dish, the sun's microwave interference just knocks off the signals for a little while (a few minutes at most) then everything returns to normal...

Keeping the dish lower down does help to maximise the signal, you have to remember that the satellite isn't in the direction that the dish faces, but it's at a higher angle, hence why most dishes are called "Offset" dishes. My little BSB dish, when I was playing with it, was sat on the floor in my old house and it worked perfectly well, and it was in the middle of the room!!!

As for having the dish outside, you don't need any fancy kit, just something to put the dish on (a weighted Tripod's handy) and a safe place to put it where it gets a good line of sight on the satellites...

Anyway, it's a good learning curve for you, I started out with a 43cm minidish, then moved on to a Lidl 80cm (70cm actual size) then later a salvaged 80cm mesh dish, now they're just stored in my bedroom awaiting use, maybe someday, just not today unfortunately...

 

[christian_cov]

HUGE breakthrough.

I was gonna clean the windows right, cat knocked, pulled more like the net curtains down, moving the dish, spoiling the dancing on ice feed, lol, anyway, guess what, cleaned windows and put all back and tried, nothing, what was I expecting.

So I thoguht, open the windows now, see what happens, sure I tried this before, my window is fairly big opens from the bottom outwards, maybe a yard wide say.

So I opened and BANG sport channels comes back at 71%, wow I thought, quick look on the others nothing much, if not a drop, normally 80-81% on bbc world on 13.0East.
Marine channel the same, Bang, kicking 70%.

This is with window open 1 foot or more, can't go to far hits top of the other minidish I put outside.
Now how close could I get it, pulled the window in 61% odd, and then almost two, maybe what, say couple inches open and still what I been getting during the day, 51% before it goes at night.

This is still through the glass, the glass is nothing, what seems to be happening at a guess, is the reflection as you point out 2cv, read your comments in a moment, briefly looked already, could not wait to report this.

Because I'm opening now so the angle is more receptive, the signal is coming through it at that angle, not being bounced off it when it is closed, weird eh.

Hard to explain, never was good with words, but if only I could do a diagram, I maintain still coming through double glazing and net curtain and ordinary curtains, only difference the window is open, more it is open from 2 inches or so to say up to 1 foot seems I get 50 to 70% on the quality reading.

Now obviously in this minus 6 like weather not good, means putting heating up, higher costs, in spring, summer, better, or maybe another solution, would be, could try, that way I'll know for sure if is the angle and still coming through the glass, not finding some way underneath, which can't be, frame still in the way, only open like 2 inches plus and up to 50%, so, I need to cover, make something to seal around the bottom, so I can have it open, put this cover in place stopping noise, wind, rain, cold especially from coming in, any ideas my friends.

Thanks again.
Right, read your comments now.

Thought you gonna say doing nothing, gonna say I'll have one, lol, but won't make any difference, mine streches end to end now, meaning window must be around that side, not measured it.
But point is, and yeah, oh hey, can try lowing maybe more, though won't get the other satellites then over say 42 East, hmm, can't open other window either, fixed, oh well.
But yeah even if you said, sure come and get it it your's, or for a couple of quid, be no good, because this shows my 65cm dish does do the job, thing is now, needs more trials, like on that bbc news 24 on the 28.0East ones, 51% best and plays up slightly sometimes, bet now I open the window slightly and bang.
Hmm, now sure what else to do, okay for warmer weather, other than making something up, so I can least open it a bit, be awesome then.

Anyway, let you know the results here on the tests I start to carry out next and if I finally get any better channels on 16East and so on, okay, go to far won't work, but pretty much straight on these one's through that window, over so far, have to move dish some as well, but looking foward to more tests and improved reception, quality wise.

 

[christian_cov]

Okay see previous post.
Does not work on everything, just those 2 or three sats in the south or so, anyway:

13.0E with window open over 1 foot like.
10971H 71% previous best 50, might have been 60% think day time sun out.
11013H 71% previous best 61%
11054H 73% previous best was 63%
11566H 81% previous best 71%
However verticals like BBC World one seems to be down by 10% now.

16E
11342H 61%, but not loading the channels or saving them, previous was about 41%, think, again might have been 51 during sunny day time.

19.2
12226H 81% the same.

23.5
11914H 81% previous best 71%

28.2 10773H 71% previous best 61% normally around 51% breaking up slightly, BBC News 4 one.

Oh by the way, conducting the above at night, giving the previous best misleading, because the sport channel on 13.0E on 11054 was at it's usual 40 to 41% nothing at all, black screen and very occassional, you know bits and bobs trying to come through, pixels whatever call it then, forget, old age, memory.
So technically it jumped from that to 71% talking a 30% increase, no doubt if the dish was out side it would pick the Horizontals up very well, maybe slight drop on verticals, but no worries.

 

[christian_cov]

Hey guys, put tv and everything on, nothing, so figured was on the sport channel right, channged channels with remote and then checked signal, not great, moved dish, easily gets moved, and then wow, JCTV at 71% I'm sure it should be 61%, so went back to the sport channel, yep, 51%, but this is not day time sunny, this is night time and dark, now 22:30pm, most weird.

So was just wondering anyone else getting great signal tonight on East 13.0 or is it effecting everyone, satellites, and if so why, something I don't know about, just wondering.

 

[christian_cov]

Recently I relented, wanting to see if I could get some feeds, and decided therefore to put the 65cm fortect outside.
In some cases, compared to behind the window and net curtain and so on with window open some, no difference, yes wow, in other cases I noted anything from a few percent to 10% on average and a 20% improvement at best.
However can't go far West because catches downpipe, so on.
But on 12.5W I'm getting the odd feed, breaks up, or won't lock, if does plays up badly.
Numbers are:

11132H BH-TV 61% Remember this is top line, average might be 51 odd.

11387H 27500 Bethel TV 61%
12637V 4285 Record News 71%
12723H 5787 LA 7 51%

Remember since I started in Jan trees were bare, I'm in a dip and so makes life bit tough and so with 65cm not going to be as good as those of you with your 80 and 90cm claiming some 80% on the above.

Lastly, to report, with no motor it means by hand I'm having to move the pole each time, and I'm not keen once I get it set, think I have it so now, on 12.5w to elevate it any more, this means I have a rough range of about 13.0 East to 15.0 West.
As for the other minidish that came back inside behind window where it happily though slightly less in some percent and more in others, performs the usual 13 19.2 and 28 respecfully honours.

I'm only worried now about strong winds and if ever it snows later in the year, though rare these days to be troubled too much by that.

Rare shock, forget which now, was one channel getting 90%, about 10% higher, think was on 13.0, maybe Heaven TV, something like that, marine, so on.

I had always thought and hoped would be better in the summer, but now thinking winter as less leaves on trees and things, across the way and far beyond, prefer if were not as tall or not there at all, but still, not to worry.
Though an eyesore, whether I'll ever get an 80cm one in future who knows and whether it will even make much difference.
It seems having tried the mindish though, it does with lower feeds and so on, weak signals etc make a difference the bigger you go.