Installing Dishes In Spain for 2E Chit-Chat

[satpete]

I do not doubt that dish can receive bbc and itv, but most do not include the rim. See earlier in thread

Hi Brian,
I'm glad to see that at least other people have similar view re the correct method of measuring a dish, as I was starting to doubt myself. The dish in question is an offset and yes they have taken the vertical measurement, but as I said previously, my view is that if you measure the receiving surface of the dish edge to edge and it comes up as 1.3om that is the measurement that be advertised! There are plenty of branded genuine dishes that do measure 1.37m.
P.S yes the dish does need slight re aligning.
regards
Peter

 

[Huevos]

Are you saying that it's standard practice amongst Spanish wholesalers to measure a dish from the edge of the rim

Yes. If I go into the wholesaler and ask for a 1.4m offset they give me a Famaval TRX 130. I know this. I pay for it and leave happy. I don't feel like I am being stitched up. And I know that dish will work in all areas.

I thing what is happening here is anyone could set up a dish when the signal was strong, but now it is a lot weaker and surrounded by strong signals from 26E and 30E it's a lot harder for your average DIYer (or know-it-all) to set up, so instead of accepting their limitations, they look for someone else to blame.

 

[Archive4]

Yes. If I go into the wholesaler and ask for a 1.4m offset they give me a Famaval TRX 130. I know this. I pay for it and leave happy. I don't feel like I am being stitched up. And I know that dish will work in all areas.

I thing what is happening here is anyone could set up a dish when the signal was strong, but now it is a lot weaker and surrounded by strong signals from 26E and 30E it's a lot harder for your average DIYer (or know-it-all) to set up, so instead of accepting their limitations, they look for someone else to blame.

View attachment 62710

I thought you were stealing spectrum analysers in Lux (PS should have said think, not thing, Is Lux wine stronger than the local red in Alicante)

 

[Huevos]

Is Lux wine stronger than the local red in Alicante)

I don't know. I'm a wine Philistine.

BTW, I'm going later. I just meant I wasn't working in the afternoon.

 

[Tururu]

Por suerte algunos mayoristas/almacenes tienen catalogos donde tienes las medidas de la antena (superficie util), si te venden la antena por las medidas de la caja y te dejas engañar, esta claro que estafadores los hay en todas partes, pero decir que esta es la norma, no merece la pena continuar, algunos ya tienen la idea grabada a fuego.
Mayorista español = estafador.

Es como comprar una caja de naranjas, te cobran la caja a peso de naranjas y de 5KG solo tienes 4Kg.

Esta claro que "ladrones" tienes en todas partes.
Siempre puedes leer las caracteristicas que indica el fabricante de la antena, todos indican las medidas utiles de la superficie, tambien las de la caja, es importante saber diferenciar estas.

Por ejemplo la antena que tengo de 98x90cm.
Tiene un area de 0.692m² = 94cm de una antena redonda.
La Gibertini OP-130 mide 139x126cm, tiene un area de = 1.375m² =132cm antena redonda.

Vuelvo con un tema que no se da ninguna importancia, pero es importante tener en cuenta, sea de la medida que se la antena, su rendimiento ==> diseño correcto es muy importante.

Segun superficie/area
94cm...Ganancia (dB.)- 10,7-11,7Ghz=40,2dB 11,7-12,5GHz=41,0dB 12,5-12,75GHz=42,0dB
132cm..Ganancia (dB.)- 10,7-11,7Ghz=42,0dB 11,7-12,5GHz=43,0dB 12,5-12,75GHz=44,0dB

Estos son los datos en papel, la realidad es muy distinta, la antena grande es un pelin mejor que la antena pequeña al tener un rendimiento muy muy bajo, los 2dB no se ven por ningun lado y menos en el precio (2005).

PD: Suerte con lo que compre cada uno.

----------------------------------
Luckily some wholesalers/stores have catalogs where you have the measurements of the antenna (usable area), if you sell the antenna measures the box and let yourself fooled , it is clear that scammers are everywhere , but to say that this is the norm, not worth continuing , and some are etched idea.
Wholesale Spanish = scammer.

It's like buying a box of oranges, they charge you a box of oranges and weight 5KG just have 4Kg .

It is clear that "thieves" have everywhere.
You can always read the manufacturer indicating the characteristics of the antenna, all measures indicate the useful surface, the box also is important to differentiate these.

For example I have the antenna of 98x90cm .
It has an area of 0.692m²= 94cm round antenna.
The Gibertini OP-130 measures 139x126cm, has an area of 1.375m² = 132cm round antenna.

Back with a subject that is not given any importance , but it is important to note , is that the extent of the antenna performance == > right design is very important.

According surface/area
94cm ... Gain (dB )- 10,7-11,7Ghz=40,2dB 11,7-12,5GHz=41,0dB 12,5-12,75GHz=42,0dB
132cm .. Gain (dB )- 10,7-11,7Ghz=42,0dB 11,7-12,5GHz=43,0dB 12,5-12,75GHz=44,0dB

These are the data on paper , the reality is very different, the large antenna is a tad better than the small to have a very very low performance antenna , the 2dB are not on any side and less on the price (2005).

PS: Good luck with what you buy each.

 

[satseeker1]

I know well the Company in La Zenia referred to,they have been installing satellite systems on the southern Costa Blanca and Murcia areas for the past 14 years,most of the installers have been with them for at least 10 years,each installation team has a Promax TV explorer and strict instructions to what levels they should achieve at different times of the day and in particular areas.They fit Famaval 1245 x 1348 offset dishes with Inverto Black Ultras,in the local adverts they actually quote both the width and height dimensions.
I asked Angela the office manageress why they always referred these dishes as 1.37 and she said they have always referred to these as 1.37 for the last 14 years and the CRM system for invoicing has these as stock items as 1.37,maybe somewhere along the line they changed the size,who knows !
I asked her about the tape measure lady and she said a women came in and said her plumber had told her the dish they installed was 1.30,she said they measured one and said it was 1.35,she also said the women never mentioned any channel breakup.She also said for installs in Murcia they recommend a prime focus Famaval which measures 1450 x 1450,on her CRM it is invoiced as a 1.40 and the installers always refer to them as a 1.4 for prime focus and a 1.37 for offset

She mentioned that in the last month they installed more than 500 x 1.37 dishes and have run out of stock,the next 200 she gets tomorrow have also all been presold,she said with this level of activity the odd one may have been rushed but if she gets a resulting service call then she makes the installer responsible do it first thing in the morning before they start. I honestly do not think an offset dish that measures exactly 1370mm on the face is available.

Incidently a Gibertini 125L that has the same specs as a Famaval 1.37,size,dBs etc performs just as well as 1450 x 1450 Famaval PF,so either Famaval are overstating their performance or Gibertini are understating,some thing is not right ! This to me is more important as misinformation rather than quibbling about a couple of centimetres

 

[terryashbyash]

Probably a silly question(and I know higher gain is better) but what are the dB gain figures for a satellite dish relative to? I know multi element vhf/uhf aerial gain figures are referenced to a standard dipole but satellite dish gain is still a mystery to me.

 

[Archive4]

Probably a silly question(and I know higher gain is better) but what are the dB gain figures for a satellite dish relative to? I know multi element vhf/uhf aerial gain figures are referenced to a standard dipole but satellite dish gain is still a mystery to me.

If you live in southern Spain or the Algarve, it means "double Blast" i´ve lost the signal!

 

[Archive4]

Yes. If I go into the wholesaler and ask for a 1.4m offset they give me a Famaval TRX 130. I know this. I pay for it and leave happy. I don't feel like I am being stitched up. And I know that dish will work in all areas.

Locally!!!, Don´t go too far south for your holiday!

 

[madridman]

Hi everyone, I'd be grateful of some advice from those of you with experience installing dishes. I am planning to buy a 110x120 Tecatel offset dish to receive Astra 2E in Madrid and I would like to know if the bracket in the picture below would be suitable/safe for fixing the dish to a TV mast similar to the one pictured below. The bracket is 850mm long, 40mm in diameter and is made from 2mm thick galvanized metal.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[woborny]

Hi everyone, I'd be grateful of some advice from those of you with experience installing dishes. I am planning to buy a 110x120 Tecatel offset dish to receive Astra 2E in Madrid and I would like to know if the bracket in the picture below would be suitable/safe for fixing the dish to a TV mast similar to the one pictured below. The bracket is 850mm long, 40mm in diameter and is made from 2mm thick galvanized metal.
Thanks for any comments.

Would think a 40mm is too small.
50 may be fine

 

[madridman]

Thanks woborny. There is a 50mm version of that bracket but unfortunately I can't find anywhere that sells it.
Do you think 40mm is too small because it might be too small for the mounting on the dish or because it might not be strong enough to hold that size dish? The dish weighs 11.5kg. If it's only a question of the mounting, I could check first to make sure it will fit ok.

 

[Archive4]

The bracket is 850mm long, 40mm in diameter and is made from 2mm thick galvanized metal.

I agree with woborny, I think 40mm x 2mm is a little light for the dish. Two things may happen, wieght of dish can pull mount are down, not a problem if arm is directly in line of sat, however, if dish is angled away from arm of bracket, this pulls the dish at a slant which can make alignment on the signal very difficult. Have has similar problem on much stronger mounts. Can you mount the upright part of the support arm looking directly at 28.2 - 28.35 to eliminate dish slant?

 

[Archive4]

This to me is more important as misinformation rather than quibbling about a couple of centimetres

Yes, Famaval is quoted locally as the best, but there are some better dishes as you state. However, for most people price also comes into the equation, and at the moment the Famaval dishes probably work out best on budget v best dish.

P.S. I´ve been telling the wife for nearly 25 years "a couple of centimetres" doesn´t matter, but she still doesn´t agree, so most customers won´t either!

 

[madridman]

I agree with woborny, I think 40mm x 2mm is a little light for the dish. Two things may happen, wieght of dish can pull mount are down, not a problem if arm is directly in line of sat, however, if dish is angled away from arm of bracket, this pulls the dish at a slant which can make alignment on the signal very difficult. Have has similar problem on much stronger mounts. Can you mount the upright part of the support arm looking directly at 28.2 - 28.35 to eliminate dish slant?

No, I won't be able to mount the upright part of the support arm looking directly at the satellite, so yes, I might end up with the problem you describe. If I could get hold of the 50mm version of the support (also 2mm thick), do you think that would be OK, or might I have the same problem because of the 2mm thickness (or perhaps I should say thinness)?
Alternatively, are there any other ways of fixing a 110x120 dish to that type of mast? Or am I trying to find a solution for something that is not really practical?

 

[Archive4]

I´m not a specialist, there are many on the forum that are that may be able to advise you better, but through knowledge gained by installing dishes for friends in my area, 50mm is stronger than 40mm. That said, if arm is correctly aligned, tilt on dish mount can adjust for any weight drop. Main differnce would be in high wind 40mm will flex more than 50mm. Re dish slant "as I call it" looks like you could rotate the bracket in the clamps on the mast (cannot see that clearly from pic) but should allow you to get perfect upright facing 28.2.

 

[madridman]

Re dish slant "as I call it" looks like you could rotate the bracket in the clamps on the mast (cannot see that clearly from pic) but should allow you to get perfect upright facing 28.2.

Yes, good point. I think the tube does rotate in the clamps and also the clamps will fix to two different uprights on the existing mast, so that would allow for vertical adjustments to angle as well, so I should be able to get it upright. I'll try contacting the manufacturer anyway to see if they can tell me where I can buy the 50mm version, unless anyone can suggest a better solution. Thanks for your help.

 

[Archive4]

No, I won't be able to mount the upright

Downloaded the picture and image enhanced bracket, you should be able to take "slant" out of the equation by rotation of arm in support brackets, (using a spirit level), but please wait for a specialist to advise you better than I can.

 

[Archive4]

you could try starting a conversation with Tururu, he lives just north of Madrid, and knows a lot of sat stuff. Including wiegths of dishes, and wieghts of local installers!

 

[madridman]

you could try starting a conversation with Tururu, he lives just north of Madrid, and knows a lot of sat stuff. Including wiegths of dishes, and wieghts of local installers!

Hahaha! Yes, I saw those photos. I might even get in touch with "elMaestro" to see what he would charge for putting the dish up for me.
@Tururu: if you read this maybe you could give me contact details for your friend "elMaestro"
Translation:
@Tururu: si lees esto, quizá me podrías pasar los datos de contacto de tu amigo "elMaestro"