My first toroidal 90 multi dish install with 20 lnbs

[godzillafan]

Hi guys

17.34 update
I got 19E within a couple of mins (remembered the position from last time).

81/76 singal quality, I knew it was a good signal so kept it. This was at 90.

After tunning I got over 1K channels and a couple of 100 radio channels - just to test.

Now going back up to to start the skcrew after I drop off the wee man to beavers!

More to follow including pictures

 

[godzillafan]

Hi guys

17.34 update
I got 19E within a couple of mins (remembered the position from last time).

81/76 singal quality, I knew it was a good signal so kept it. This was at 90.

After tunning I got over 1K channels and a couple of 100 radio channels - just to test.

Now going back up to to start the skcrew after I drop off the wee man to beavers!

More to follow including pictures

Update 20.13

Hi Guys

Here is the update of the day.

Was pretty happy with everything throughout the day and posted a couple of pictures of the new bar and the dish including levels.

I tuned in 19.2e real quick and managed to get a whole load of channels at the 81/76 quality signal.

I went on to change the sckrew and this was the end result.

I got to 100 and anymore I started top lose the signal again.

I wanted 104 but fell short again by 4!

At 100 I got this reading 86/71 give or take two, thats the best reading I have ever had and started thinking

at 90 I got 81/76
at 100 I got 86/71

If you checked the pictures you will note that the new bar is about 4cms above the original bar, could this mean that difference of 4cms of the new bar is the max I can get which is 100!

I wanted 104 from 90, but as there is already a 4 difference (new bar) I should be only looking for 100.

I dont know if this makes sense or you understand what I mean, but looking at the results - At 100 I get results. Could this be because of the difference in the new bar.

anyone with the maths / tech knowledge shed any light to this.

The lnbs was not skcrew much I just moved it slightly to get the best results, at one point it dropped to 44/10 if I skrewed/moved it in the opp direction.

hope anyone can add anymore to this, but the dish is defo sckrew and at 100 and on the Vu+ I tuned in 1409 channels

 

[Huevos]

If you can't get it to 104 you've assembled the dish wrong. Did you follow the instructions to the letter, or just loosely like you've followed this thread?

When i had the dish down and checked all the screws/bolts etc - they looked spot on and it moved as it should be moving. I am however going to recheck them again when i go up and check if I have not missed anything

You haven't followed the assembly instructions properly, which is why you can't skew the dish.

Look at the picture of how it is supposed to be assembled and once you have changed yours post a picture. Until you have this correct you cannot move on to any subsequent step.

 

[Huevos]

at 90 I got 81/76
at 100 I got 86/71[...]at one point it dropped to 44/10

Can you explain what those figures mean. If you just posted SNR = xx% it would be a lot easier to follow. I just checked on 19.2E on my Ultimo (same tuner as the Uno) using the T90 and it is 99% SNR on all transponders that I checked.

 

[Huevos]

Here's a simple assembly guide.

 

[sonnetpete]

I've just compared the two photo's and Godzillafan will have to remove the four inner nuts & bolts and move them to the holes on the mount and the elevation bracket. I suspect the lower left one (the one with a black mark on the bracket above it) will stop the dish skew achieving the 104°.

I have to agree that for clarity any figures relating to signal should be followed by a % and when you talk about dish skew please state degrees.

 

[godzillafan]

cheers guys

heres some pics to check before I give full break down details
83/75 is the what i meant the quality etc.
the bolts is who the instructions tells you what to do

I moved the 4 bolts outer ones to move the dish and I can move the dish to 104 no problem, but I get no signal.

When I get to 100 I get a signal.

 

[Huevos]

heres some pics to check before I give full break down details
83/75 is the what i meant the quality etc.
the bolts is who the instructions tells you what to do

I moved the 4 bolts outer ones to move the dish and I can move the dish to 104 no problem, but I get no signal.

When I get to 100 I get a signal.

Well this picture shows that you put the bolts through the wrong holes. There are multiple holes to allow for skewing at all different angle so you need to choose holes that are going to allow you to adjust the dish properly to suit your individual needs.

If the signal changes when you skew the dish you have the LNB attached incorrectly or in the wrong position.

Also, I thought you were using the Uno. No one in this thread has that receiver so all the figures you are quoting are pretty meaningless to us. But like I said above if the quality drops when you skew the dish something with the rail or LNBs is assembled wrong.

 

[sonnetpete]

Well, I can hardly believe that skewing the dish an extra 4° will completely knock off the signal from a sat like 19°E but if you say that's whats happening.......

After skewing the dish to 104° and you get no signal, are you making small adjustments to the dish alignment (up and down, left and right) to try and get it back? (Tighten up the dish skew at 104° before realigning so it doesn't all move) Altering the dish skew will move the alignment of the 19°E LNB relative to the satellite but only slightly. Don't be afraid to try this, you can always go back to 90° and reset it if it doesn't work (though I can't see any reason why it shouldn't).

It's a shame that you didn't set it all up on the ground first, would have saved all that ladder climbing!!!

 

[godzillafan]

cheers guys for all the help once again.

the screws/bolts picture is how the manual said to setup the dish. I did this back to original state so I can start from scratch yesterday.

This is what I did

checked all the levels
put all the screws back on as per manual
got it back to 90 and tuned in 19 to give a 76% signal rate on the S9HD (reason I am using that is the Uno is fixed in my living room at the other side of the house).

once i got the signal - I then moved to the back of the dish and took out the screws as per H pic 223.

So I could move the dish - I then started moving it a little at a time while watching the sat tv screen as I got to 100degrees (moving towards 104) I got a 76% signal quality as per tv picture.

So continued moving towards 104 and hit 104degree the signal dropped to 10% - in otherword moving from 100 to 104degree sckrewing on back of the dish the signal quality drops from 76% to 10% - In other words losing signal.

As everyone says been through the notes a few times but Cant understand why the sudden drop. This is where I am struck/stumped

Lets say I get back on 90. get a signal back by moving the dish until the best quality signal is reached.
I then change the dish sckrew from 90 to 104 (whatever the quality signal)?

what route should I take from this point. From reading the notes - there shouold not be much of a signal quality change and by sckrewing the lnbs I will get a overall result.

The one thing i noted was as I moved the sckrew from 90 towards 104 - everything is fine until 100degree and then at 104 the signal is very low.

I guess I am at the point I need to look at the lnb and move that when I am at 104 to get a signal back.

Everything before that is fine at 90 and finding 19E and sckrewing slowing (with 4 screws off) towards 104! Upon reaching 104 the signal is lost.

I hope this makes better sense and helps explain the situation.

 

[lanab]

When you skew the dish you need to skew the LNB as well, that's why you get signal drops, you have to adjust forth and back all the time to get exact.

 

[sonnetpete]

Can you make the back of the dish look exactly like the photo Huevos posted? I.E. Five nuts and bolts, one in middle, two at the top and two at the bottom. (make sure you study the photo and understand where they go) Don't take them out completely and attempt to skew the dish, slacken them off sufficiently to let you skew the dish face, turn to 104° then tighten them up. If you only have the pivot bolt in and it's slack, the dish face will tilt down, possibly enough to take off your signal.

It's possible that moving the LNB for 19°E will regain your signal. But fine adjustment of the dish azimuth and declination should achieve this too. I can't think that the adjustment would need more than a 1 or 2 cm movement up or down and/or left or right. Concentrate on getting the best signal on 19°E with the dish face on 104°. I think you're going to find setting up your LNB's at each end of the bar quite challenging!!

Edit: agreed that the LNB skew will need adjusting but that alone wouldn't be the cause of no signal surely.

 

[godzillafan]

Can you make the back of the dish look exactly like the photo Huevos posted? I.E. Five nuts and bolts, one in middle, two at the top and two at the bottom. (make sure you study the photo and understand where they go) Don't take them out completely and attempt to skew the dish, slacken them off sufficiently to let you skew the dish face, turn to 104° then tighten them up. If you only have the pivot bolt in and it's slack, the dish face will tilt down, possibly enough to take off your signal.

It's possible that moving the LNB for 19°E will regain your signal. But fine adjustment of the dish azimuth and declination should achieve this too. I can't think that the adjustment would need more than a 1 or 2 cm movement up or down and/or left or right. Concentrate on getting the best signal on 19°E with the dish face on 104°. I think you're going to find setting up your LNB's at each end of the bar quite challenging!!

Edit: agreed that the LNB skew will need adjusting but that alone wouldn't be the cause of no signal surely.

Thanks S

once again thanks to all forall the help - I wont get this done without you guys.

OK I am going to take a copy of H's picture and go over the back plate and mirror it and post a picture on here before I do anything else (I take it - 3 screws in a line in the middle - one top right and one bottom left).

I shall do that today and post a picture and then move on from there.

I will reset it back to 90 first and get 19E on 0 and then post a signal quality for reference at the same time.

We can then check if that signal is good enough before I skrew it

Once again thanks

 

[sonnetpete]

(I take it - 3 screws in a line in the middle - one top right and one bottom left).

No, look again at the photo. There will be two at the top (ok, you can't see the top left one but I can assure you it will be there) one in the middle and two at the bottom. With only three screws holding the dish face on I think it would be quite unstable and problematic to adjust when slackened off.

 

[Huevos]

Altering the dish skew will move the alignment of the 19°E LNB relative to the satellite but only slightly.

That's not true! If the LNB is central, skewing the dish will not change the alignment at all, only the LNB skew (just the same as if you were able to skew a prime focus dish). If skewing is changing the alignment that means the LNB is not central, or it is too high, or it is pointing at the wrong part of the secondary reflector. This is why all the way through this thread (which now has 235 posts) he has been advised to use the original holders to do the initial alignment and skew.

 

[godzillafan]

Thanks guys once again

S- looking at the picture H has

1 middle screw
2 bottom screws - one on far right and 1 on near left - nothing in bottom middle hole
2 top screws - reconfirm - one on far right and 1 on near left - nothing in top middle hole

original holders i dont have anymore, but trying to get from uncle.

I know the dish will work in the end - its just making me work hard to get it to work.

thanks again guys

 

[sonnetpete]

That's not true! If the LNB is central, skewing the dish will not change the alignment at all, only the LNB skew (just the same as if you were able to skew a prime focus dish). If skewing is changing the alignment that means the LNB is not central, or it is too high, or it is pointing at the wrong part of the secondary reflector. This is why all the way through this thread (which now has 235 posts) he has been advised to use the original holders to do the initial alignment and skew.

Ok, point taken. Perhaps it is pointing at the wrong part of the secondary reflector. There's been no mention of trying to alter the direction of the LNB in relation to the secondary reflector (as opposed to raising or lowering it).

@ Godzillafan : It's still not clear from your explanation but two screws either side of top middle hole and two screws either side of bottom middle hole with a screw in the middle. Take the copy of the photo and compare it carefully.

 

[godzillafan]

@ Godzillafan : It's still not clear from your explanation but two screws either side of top middle hole and two screws either side of bottom middle hole with a screw in the middle. Take the copy of the photo and compare it carefully.

Thanks S

I think that what I was trying to get at

top and bottom middle no screws but 4 screws top and bottom sides.

I am going to set back to 90 and work on lnb first and then once ready move to the skcrew - pictures and updates to follow

 

[godzillafan]

17.24 update

Hi guys

managed to get 5 mins to get back up there

new photos of the back plate with the 4 screws and 1 middle. Also set it at 90 as per picture.

H - hope this is the same as your picture?

Pic of top two screws
Pic of bottom two screws
pic of all five screws in and aet at 90

wait for confirmation before next steps

cheers once again

 

[lanab]

Edit: agreed that the LNB skew will need adjusting but that alone wouldn't be the cause of no signal surely.

If not there is some major fault with the dish, damaged or warped in some way....

If he tweak the LNB at 0 position for AZ/EL he doesn't need to do much more except tweaking skew for the LNB when he skews the whole dish, it not hard to adjust a Toroidal but you need to have all angles correct and what you're doing, it's easy to get confused.

Skewing the dish doesn't affect the position in the middle, only angle of LNB skew position, however it does affect the edge positions.

It's 1-3 steps installing it.

1. Install LNB at position 0, tweak AZ/EL

2. Install one LNB each on the edges, eg the satellite furthest away on the rail, adjust AZ/EL, if you don't get signal try skewing the dish a bit, if you get signal now adjust AZ/EL again to max and then tweak the signal by skewing the dish, check back and forth for edge LNB and center LNB and you will find a compromise but most often you max the signal on both positions.

3. Add the rest of the LNBs you want and tweak them on the rail only, then skew the LNBs for best signal.