New Interconnects Diagram to accomodate new box

[Vipersan]

Hi friends ..

The openbox S9HD I ordered arrives tomorrow ..so spent the evening having a bit of a rewire in the shack ..ready to accomodate the new box..
I've assigned it lnb control ...on 4 dishes when active ..
Also..
It took a bit of doing but have managed to allow diseqc control of the vbox2 (1.8 pf cband dish) from the shack by using a spare sat pci card...and allowing infra red remote control of the same Dish / vbox2 from the TV room..
It took a bit of effort to organise ..so I thought I'd share with you all ..
;)

I do have a question for the experts though ..
If I replace the 4 way diseqc switch in the loft with an uncomitted switch ..(assuming the OpenBox allows it )...
..is motor control of the 2 usals/diseqc dishes possible through the uncomitted switch ...when the box is turned on ...effectively deselecting motor control (via the priority switches) from the boxes downstairs ..
???

 

[Vipersan]

Hi m8s...
just to avoid confusion I am basically asking if it is possible to daisy chain an uncommited diseqc switch ...and 2 diseqc 1.2/1.3 motors ...so that 1 satbox with only one input can switch between the 2 moveable dishes and of course...steer them...
Im assuming this is _not_ possible with a commited switch ...but am curious about uncomitted switches (never used one).
So basically its single tuner Receiver > uncommitedswitch diseqc 1.1 > 2 usals motors > diseqc1.2/1.3 (x2)
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

The Openbox S9 has arrived and checking the install menu shows it posible to enable a diseqc motor and Diseqc 1.1 switch (Cascade M1 ort1) at the same time ..so maybe my theoretical setup -MIGHT- work ..
..but I guess no one has yet tried this..
Due to the relative high cost and uk availablity of these uncommitted switches ..I'm loathe to just order one..
but I may have to.
Do any of our UK installers/experts know where I might get one ?
rgds
VS

 

[PaulR]

Kerist, that's a complicated setup you want there VS! It's no wonder there've been no replies - I just can't get my head around it.

It does, however, sound a little bit like what I want to do at some time in the future. Would I be right in thinking that, basically, you want to have some (3?) fixed dishes and a motorised dish that would point at whatever the fixed dishes didn't? And that you want to put these onto the 4 inputs of a Disecq switch? Or at least that's what I want to do!

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Paul ..
Sadly no ..its far more complicated than that ..
I have 2x usals/diseqc motorised dishes ...1 large 1.8mtr dish (actuator driven/vbox2 positioner) ...and one lonesome little sly minidish
I basically want to be able to move and control the 3 motorised dishes (and the 1 fixed mini dish) by the IP9000HD box downstairs in my front room when I'm watching TV ..
Then by simply turning that box off and moving upstairs to my 'den' ...and switching on the newly aquired openbox ..
..power/lnb/and motor control is transfered automatically ..
I almost have it working ..
The problem is that transferring control of a disqc motor is easy ...until you try and insert a 4 way diesqc 1.0 switch ..
at which point control signals never reach the motor..
I believe that this might be possible by using an uncommitted diseqc 1.1 switch instead ..
I believe this type of switch will allow motor commands to reach the motor..
but don't have access to such a switch to try it ..
Rare as rocking horse doo doos in the UK it seems..
rgds
VS


ps control of the 1.8 dish by the vbox2 from either location is already sorted ..
..the problem of the 2 diseqc/usals motors&dishes remains the problem

 

[nelson_b]

I believe that this might be possible by using an uncommitted diseqc 1.1 switch instead ..
I believe this type of switch will allow motor commands to reach the motor..
but don't have access to such a switch to try it ..
Rare as rocking horse doo doos in the UK it seems..

hi vipersan

i think you may be correct in thinking that ---
i have a 8 way 1.1 diseqc switch in use but i.m not driving a motor through it --
i have a diseqc motor that is not in use if i get the time tommorow i will hook it up to a spare input and try it -

your diagram is mind boggling -- and i thought my setup was complex - l.o.l.

regards nelson. b.

p.s -- got my switch from germany - a number of years ago --
couldn,t source one in england at the time -----

 

[Vipersan]

Thanks for your Help Nelson
I do appreciate it..
I may actually have a solution already..in that I know my standard 4 way diseqc switch is blocking motor control IF i try to send diseqc1.2 protocols to it ..
I have though ..just tried sending Diseqc 1.3 ...ie Usals...protocol to the remote 90cm dish located on my dads property...
That one is mounted on an SG2100 motor...and it does look as though it was successful in that the Openbox moved the dish which was at 39East ...to 53 East and successfully scanned the Russian bird..
I need to test the same with the TD110 on the dark-motor tomorrow ...to see if it too receives diseqc 1.3 through the 4 way switch ..
Signal loss so far appears minimal ...and probably compensated for by the Openbox's excellent threshold capabilities..
Considering the signal to the Openbox is passing through a 4 way diseqc ..then a smart priority switch ..then an inline amplifier ....then 80 mtrs....of cable ...then the motor itself from the lnb...I'm amazed at the result.
Please do try your test though Nelson ..as I'm sure it will be informative and very helpful.
rgds
VS

 

[PaulR]

Have you always chosen the hard route in life VS?

 

[Vipersan]

Have you always chosen the hard route in life VS?

It certainly feels like it Paul ;)
Why would any sane person point a big ugly dish in the direction of America and spend days tweaking it just to get a brief glimpse of a Bolivian weatherman telling him its gonna rain tomorrow ..
..I guess that in itself describes the insanity lurking in my head !
rgds
VS

 

[Huevos]

VS, the problem is the order of commands. Whatever switch you use (committed or uncommitted) for your configuration the command to the switch needs to be sent first and then there needs to be sufficient delay for the switch to activate so the command to the motor arrives at the correct motor.

Might sound a bit wierd but I think you could put both motors inline before the diseqc switch. Then using diseqc 1.2, if motor one was programmed for positions 1-10 and motor two positions 11-20, when the receiver sends a command to go to position 5 only one motor would move. Obviously this wouldn't be possible with USALS as both motors would move.

Also have you read the sticky on this? http://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/...qs/96904-2-motorised-dishes-one-receiver.html

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Huevos ..
I see what you are getting at ...but not sure if that would be viable as there is the IP9000HD downstairs to consider ..
It is set up with a dual tuner system where tuner A controls 1 dish and tuner B controls the other ..
..and of course the priority switches in both lines are there to isolate and switch control when that box is turned on ..
The same applies to the Openbox ..but it has only one tuner input so relies on the diseqc switch to select the required dish/motor..
I'm going to persue the usals method for the moment as it does appear to be working ..
Effectively what is happening is that the IP9000 when switched on grabs control and moves either dish according to tuner select ...but under diseqc 1.2 control ..(the diseqc 4 way switch isn't in play)
When the Openbox is switched on ...it takes control ..and moves either motor ..through the 4 way switch...using stacked protocols ...first diseqc 1.0 ...then a (assumed delayed) 1.3 command..
The motors remain blissfully unaware of the changes ...and just move according to whichever protocol they receive.
So far this is true for the SG2100...but can't test the Darkmotor ..until I recieve the 3rd smart priority switch I've got on order..
rgds
VS

 

[nelson_b]

Please do try your test though Nelson ..as I'm sure it will be informative and very helpful.
rgds
VS

hi -
no - i can,t move the motor with my 8 way switch in the l.n.b cable --
how i set the diseqc settings in the receiver makes no difference -- still no movement of the motor --

regards nelson.b

 

[Vipersan]

Thanks for the info Nelson ..
I'm surprised I have to say ..
Would have thought it should have been possible ....but then I found I could only get the box to drive the motor through my switch If I use stacked 1.0 and 1.3 protocols ..
ie ...diseqc > usals ..
..It could be that the Openbox has the neccessary 'delays' built in ..
What receiver are you trying with ?

rgds
VS

 

[nelson_b]

Thanks for the info Nelson ..
I'm surprised I have to say ..
Would have thought it should have been possible ....but then I found I could only get the box to drive the motor through my switch If I use stacked 1.0 and 1.3 protocols ..
ie ...diseqc > usals ..
..It could be that the Openbox has the neccessary 'delays' built in ..
What receiver are you trying with ?

rgds
VS

with the Spiderbox HD 9000 --
i will try again later using the Technomate 1500ci super - and see if its the same --
the switch is a 8 way EMP Centauri goto nn switch - s.168

cheers nelson.b

 

[nelson_b]

with the Spiderbox HD 9000 --
i will try again later using the Technomate 1500ci super - and see if its the same --
the switch is a 8 way EMP Centauri goto nn switch - s.168

cheers nelson.b

hi - vipersan
same result using the T.M.-- will not move the motor - through the switch
it may not be the case with all switches though
the EMP Centauri goto nn switch - s.168 is a bit unusual i think -----
it is compatible on recievers with
Diseqc 1.0
Diseqc 1.1
Diseqc 1.2
using 1.2 it acts as though it is a motor/positioner ie you hold down the remote,s east or west movement button on a selected sat until you find a known active transponder on it and then store it - i have used it this way when i first bought it - but now use it using combined settings of diseqc 1.0 and 1.1 in the reciever (Committed and uncommitted etc) -- as the switching is slightly faster

cheers nelson.b.

 

[Vipersan]

Thanks Nelson ...
I do appreciate your efforts ..
Particularly as I was all set to try and source one for my system.
I suspect it may not have worked ...and they ain't cheap..
rgds
VS

btw found an item of iterest on my S9 thread..

 

[Vipersan]

Latest Connection disgram with remote vbox control now given to Openbox S9HD in shack ..
Also added stand slone NEC positioner to control additional 12 inch actuator arm for Elevation control of 18m prime focus Dedicated Cband Dish..
rgds
VS

 

[Rick]

Hi VS, I'm running EMP uncomitted switches and I can drive a motor through them fine. Neither my Vu+ or AzBox has a problem. You can also run motors through committed switches without any issue at all, other than, I've noticed, the cheaper switches don't last as long as they should. Cascading committed - uncommitted - motor, or uncommitted - committed - motor, (also depends on what settings the box will allow) should work as well. Though you can have issues with the earlier EMP switches that auto select which mode they are going to work on. They get confused by the 1.0 and 1.1 commands.

As long as your setup will allow you to assign the right switching combination to each satellite, you will be able to setup the reciever to use the correct motor. eg

Sat Uncommitted Committed
28e 1 A/A Motor
26e 1 A/A Motor
30w 1 A/B Motor
15w 1 A/B Motor
1w 2 - Fixed
13e 1 B/A Fixed
4.8e 3 - Fixed

Just to give you an idea of how the settings need to look, ofcourse you may need to swap over the uncommitted and committed commands depending on the way you wire your switches. And you can use USALS no problem with this setup.

Hope that helps.

That sure is a complicated setup. Bet fault finding is fun

 

[Huevos]

VS where are the SPS's from?

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Huevos ...
mighty tricky to get these extremely useful switches these days ..
Wht they where effectively discontinued is beyond my comprehension ..
Both Global and Jaeger used to manufacture them ...but I suspect both companies no longer exist ..at least in their origional form ..
Surprisingly manufacturers in the far east never picked up the 'baton' to run with it ...
Luckilly I already had at least one SPS1 (global) origional ..and I have since managed to buy 2 Jaegers from Pulsat..
I suspect that stock is also limited ..and they only have the Jaeger version left ..
A bit pricey @ £20 per switch ..but at least they do have stock ....
..or at least they did when I last ordered..
C'mon Taiwan ...there's stll a market for these excellent switches ..
Please take note ..out there in the far east..
;)
rgds
VS