Nilesat: Narrower Band LNB's and Gain.

[Channel Hopper]

....
It will cost you around £1500

Which would secure a rather good 2.4m dish from most outlets.

 

[adnan20]

i just wonna ask u if u get all the TRANSPONDERS on Nilesat in brussels??

 

[canofan]

i just wonna ask u if u get all the TRANSPONDERS on Nilesat in brussels??

If you mean Nilesat 7°W and not Atlantic Bird4 at 7.2°W.
I get them all on a Channelmaster 120 with round throat long channelmaster feedhorn and inverto c120 quattro most of the time.
I get all horizontals on a Channelmaster 120 with round throat long channelmaster feedhorn with transition and Norsat 7706A lnb all the time.

 

[GreenmanBelg]

Just checking Canofan but when lining out my CM1.2m do I use Sirius 5 degrees east as my mid point on my CM polar mount?

Very windy here so it looks like a next weekend job.

 

[canofan]

Your longitude is 5.149 East so it is very close to Sirius at 4.8 East.
It is very close. you just go ahead JD.
Seems like the wind has calmed down. As it is holiday, you may be able to set it up to day.
Cheers

 

[Turok]

here,nilesat H is very strong,have also signal druring havey rain with 1,25 gregory,so nothing for dxing on this satelite for me!
never tested this kind of 12 ghz opimeized lnbs,how much "better"they realy are,on a signal meter,how many db you can win with such this kind of lnb?

 

[canofan]

here,nilesat H is very strong,have also signal druring havey rain with 1,25 gregory,so nothing for dxing on this satelite for me!
never tested this kind of 12 ghz opimeized lnbs,how much "better"they realy are,on a signal meter,how many db you can win with such this kind of lnb?

Hi Turok,
Narrow band LNBs, like the Norsat 4000 series are single band LNBs. Other manufacturers also make single band LNBs. No V/H switching, so you turn the LNB 90° to get the other polarity. They use only one microwave sensor which simplifies the placement of the sensor. This ensures their quality. They are available in 3 guaranteed Noise figures 0.8, 0.7 and 0.6db. But in reality these figures should not be compared to the commercial figures of Universal LNB's, including Invacom, Such manufactures serve the industrial market and they cannot publish data which they cannot substantiate. At the same time, it is generally felt that those specifications are pessimistic, because the equipment, used to measure noise, cannot go below the 0.6db floor. They have a WR75 (Rectangular waveguide) interface. They are best used in conjunction with A WR75 Feedhorn designed for the dish. They perform worse when coupled to a C120 feedhorn through a transition, because anything in between causes loss. Also because they are specialised in their Band, they are not used with motorised dishes.
As far as I know, Prodelin is the only feedhorn manufacturer who designed a dual mode feedhorn with a WR75 waveguide, optimized to cover 11.7 to 12.2 ghz, but will cover 12.2 to 12.75 ghz less effectively; Channel Master uses the Prodelin feedhorns.
When you use a Norsat 4206A Single Band, or equivalent, with a dual mode WR75 Prodelin/CM feedhorn on a CM 1.2m dish, you obtain the same result as on a CM 1.8 dish with an Invacom flange LNB, coupled with a corrugated C120 Prodelin/CM.
The Ratio of the Area of 1.8m to the 1.2m is 2.2. Therefore a 4 db increase.

 

[GreenmanBelg]

Your longitude is 5.149 East so it is very close to Sirius at 4.8 East.
It is very close. you just go ahead JD.
Seems like the wind has calmed down. As it is holiday, you may be able to set it up to day.
Cheers

Too windy here, its a next weekend job all going well. Might try a BEST lnb just for the hell of it since its on the ground. Will let you know.

 

[patmos]

Canofan, you explain things well. This is difficult to enter many people's head when you say that a 0.6dB LNB performs better than a commercial 0.3 dB LNB. Big names like california Amplifier,Norsat or the other japanese( I forgot the name) is better. We use a CAl AMP 25K LNB for C band and it is much much better than the commercial 15K. I also believe that narrrow bands should perform better.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Canofan, you explain things well. This is difficult to enter many people's head when you say that a 0.6dB LNB performs better than a commercial 0.3 dB LNB. Big names like california Amplifier,Norsat or the other japanese( I forgot the name) is better. We use a CAl AMP 25K LNB for C band and it is much much better than the commercial 15K. I also believe that narrrow bands should perform better.

There is no such thing as a 0.3dB LNB operating at Ku band.

 

[patmos]

There is no such thing as a 0.3dB LNB operating at Ku band.

What do you mean by this statement. Invacom and others quote this figure and less.

 

[canofan]

What do you mean by this statement. Invacom and others quote this figure and less.

Channel Hopper is right.
Manufacturers who destine their LNBs to the consumer market seem to feel free to publish unsubstantiated specs.
We consider that unsubstantiated specs are not valid.
Perhaps some units turn out to be good performers but this is no reason to claim a spec that you have not been able to measure.
I have seen Astrotel specs claiming 0.5db noise. Knowing Astrotel, these are probably substantiated. They may have more sensitive measuring equipment for this.
But at the same time if Norsat and the other professionals disposed of that same equipment they may perhaps also encounter lower figures, which they then could use to substantiate newer published figures.

 

[Llew]

SMW readily supplied both the graphs of the gain/noise figures of their LNBs and the equipment used to measure them.

Would the manufacturers of cheapo LNBs do the same? Might be worth asking them, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Llew

 

[canofan]

...........Would the manufacturers of cheapo LNBs do the same? Might be worth asking them, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Llew

No they do not.
Any quote of noise/gain spec is void of meaning if it is not substantiated specs.
This applies to cheap and less cheap.
I know a supplier who selects Invacom quattro flange LNB's and supplies them with graphs that he produces in his own lab. They sell for 155 Euro excluding VAT.

 

[canofan]

SMW readily supplied both the graphs of the gain/noise figures of their LNBs and the equipment used to measure them.

Would the manufacturers of cheapo LNBs do the same? Might be worth asking them, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Llew

Hi Llew.
SMW's substantiated specs are all 0.8db NF. This makes me think that their measuring equipment does not show how good they are.
I feel that if they used some of the newer measuring equipment they should be able to show their marvelous performance and compare favourably with the other professional LNB manufacturers.

 

[Llew]

Make what you will of it canofan, but the graph that accompanied my LNB shows a NF reading below 0.8dB through the frequency range of that particular model.

Granted 0.8dB is the minimum reading of that graph, the line clearly shows it falling to perhaps 0.65dB mid-range.

Llew

 

[BombedOne]

If anyone interested, there's a review on the net, where's Invacom 0.3db LNB was dismantled and analyzed. the noise ratio of input transistor (which is generating that noise) was no where close to 0.3db.

Regarding nilesat, I've wont mind to change place of living with anyone living at UK. Here you can perfectly receive all H's and V's from nilesat, in any weather, with good quality lnb and good quality 60cm dish

 

[canofan]

Make what you will of it canofan, but the graph that accompanied my LNB shows a NF reading below 0.8dB through the frequency range of that particular model.

Granted 0.8dB is the minimum reading of that graph, the line clearly shows it falling to perhaps 0.65dB mid-range.

Llew

Please do not mistake my appreciation of SMW LNBs, they are great.
The only thing is that I wish they used measuring equipment that would show them off.
This is not their priority, it seems, as they will stop making DRO LNBs.
And the customers for PLLs have other criteria for their choice.

 

[Turok]

Hello!
intrestingly,i got not always informed,that some one,has replyed to this topic,so now my answer comes a little bit later!

i have wideband band lnb form smw,with 2 output,each freqency,it performs very well,one coasts around 250€ (each)dealerprice!
its very heavey around 400 gramm

smw,stop production,of the lnbs at the end of this year!
so you must be hurry,to buy,this rar lnbs!
have now the series nearly complete,only the much more expensice black dro series (latest one)is missing in my collection,can anyone tell,how good this series perfom comparing with the xlines?
or is the performance,the same,only the price is higher?

 

[canofan]

If anyone interested, there's a review on the net, where's Invacom 0.3db LNB was dismantled and analyzed. the noise ratio of input transistor (which is generating that noise) was no where close to 0.3db.

above or below?

Regarding nilesat, I've wont mind to change place of living with anyone living at UK. Here you can perfectly receive all H's and V's from nilesat, in any weather, with good quality lnb and good quality 60cm dish

Are Thor Astra1 and Astra2 too weak to receive in your Area?
I had in mind to go live in Georgia, but this, now, knocks it on the head.

best regards