System Installation and warranties

[petediscrete]

A friend of mine had a motorised system installed four months ago.It was a 1 metre dish on a disecq mount with a short cable run to his Humax STB.Not having much tech savvy he called back the installer when he was having problems locating some satellites on the arc.The installer told him that the wind must have shifted the dish somehow.Up the ladder, fiddled around, down the ladder, fiddled with the receiver and gave him a bill for €70.My friend reckoned that this should have been covered under warrantly but the installer told him that he had no control over the wind.This happened three times over the four month period with a bill on two occasions.I offered to have a look at the system and to be honest a six year old would have done a better job.I walked him through the whole installation and as a result he can now do his own running repairs.

My question to the pros on this site is what exactly is covered by way of warranty work on an installation and how long should the customer wait before he calls the installer back for routine maintainence/preventative work assuming that this is the way to prevent the big shocker when the system packs up

 

[satelliteman]

In most cases wind or weather related wouldn't be covered. Although it's the installers job to use correct bracketry and mount the dish in a suitable place; where possile taking these factors into account. His quality of workmanship should be covered though for at least 1 year.

 

[petediscrete]

I wholeheartedly agree but in this instance the cheapest materials were used and the customer who hadn't a clue paid in the long run.All he saw was the finished work which did what was promised until the installer walked out the door.My point is these ads offering low cost systems are designed to catch the uneducated.We all know here that a free to air install on 28e could be carried out by practically anyone with basic knowledge and a "Google".The STB, the dish the lnb and the cabling were the cheapest available (looked like a Maplins kit) but I can tell you the cost to my friend wasn't.They say that talk is cheap and in my case it was but the installer's chat cost him €70 a throw.Here in Ireland we are not as regulated as our UK counterparts and of course the recession throws up the worst in people.

 

[Channel Hopper]

If the installation and equipment were supplied complete by the installer then (apart from gales) I would expect to return if anything did go wrong without charging (unless the job was well outside my normal 'patch').

Was there any written guarantee on the day, and how was it paid for ?

It might be worth your friend taking some pictures of just what is outside and posting here.

 

[Huevos]

Not having much tech savvy he called back the installer when he was having problems locating some satellites on the arc.

Why? Wasn't it a USALS install?

The installer told him that the wind must have shifted the dish somehow.Up the ladder, fiddled around, down the ladder, fiddled with the receiver and gave him a bill for €70.

Aligning a motorised dish is quite a bit of work. 70€ doesn't sound dear to me.

My friend reckoned that this should have been covered under warrantly but the installer told him that he had no control over the wind.This happened three times over the four month period with a bill on two occasions.

Who decided where the dish was going to be located?

what exactly is covered by way of warranty

In England and Wales there is no mandatory warranty. Warranties are an extra. Goods are covered under the Sale of Goods Act. They must be fit for the purpose at the time of sale. The time of sale is a period that expires 6 months after the purchase date.

how long should the customer wait before he calls the installer back for routine maintainence/preventative work

The motor is sealed and everything else is bolted down. Once a system is fitted it shouldn't need routine maintenance. Wind is a different matter though. A 1 metre dish bolted to a 2 inch motor stub is going to shift even in moderate winds if it's not installed in a sheltered location however tight the bracket is done up.

 

[petediscrete]

Why? Wasn't it a USALS install?

Aligning a motorised dish is quite a bit of work. 70€ doesn't sound dear to me.

The initial cost for equipment and installation was €650.The €70 was for subsequent visits.
To be honest all the installer did was send the dish back to zero.As I said to the uneducated
this is double dutch.

Who decided where the dish was going to be located?

The installer.Back wall of the house.The most sheltered but handiest spot for him.Its actually
blocking his view out the bedroom window

In England and Wales there is no mandatory warranty. Warranties are an extra. Goods are covered under the Sale of Goods Act. They must be fit for the purpose at the time of sale. The time of sale is a period that expires 6 months after the purchase date.

Thats good to know.

The motor is sealed and everything else is bolted down. Once a system is fitted it shouldn't need routine maintenance. Wind is a different matter though. A 1 metre dish bolted to a 2 inch motor stub is going to shift even in moderate winds if it's not installed in a sheltered location however tight the bracket is done up.

Thats fine if the fixings that were used were of a stainless nature.I couldn't believe he used cheepo bolts and
clamps that had a fine rust coat after four months.Imagine what they would be like after four years.

All in all it was a poor job and in no way was it a €625 installation.I reckon I could have sourced the kit
he used for max €250 which puts the labour costs at €375.Is that a labour price you would have charged
for a job like this.

 

[Robbo]

All in all it was a poor job and in no way was it a €625 installation.I reckon I could have sourced the kit
he used for max €250 which puts the labour costs at €375.Is that a labour price you would have charged
for a job like this.

We have not seen the job, but does seem a lot.

 

[Huevos]

Thats fine if the fixings that were used were of a stainless nature.I couldn't believe he used cheepo bolts and
clamps that had a fine rust coat after four months.Imagine what they would be like after four years.

Clamps, bolts, u-bolts, etc come with the dish and motor. Normally they are hot galv dipped and will oxidise over time, but I doubt any installers discard them and use special order stainless steel bolts instead. Same with coach screws and sleeve anchors etc, they are hot galv dipped.

I reckon I could have sourced the kit he used for max €250 which puts the labour costs at €375.Is that a labour price you would have charged for a job like this.

It doesn't work like that, but we would need to see the bill to know more. An installer makes profit on parts as well as labour. Just because you can source parts cheaper doesn't mean that the installer should hand those savings on to the client. Personally I sell most stuff at the manufacturer's or wholesaler's recomended retail price, not at the price of some online bargain website, after all I sourced the gear and carry it and have a much smaller client base than someone like Amazon so need to charge accordingly. That's not to say that there wasn't excessive mark-up in this case, but we would need to see a breakdown of the goods and prices to know.

 

[petediscrete]

Ok.I've managed to get to the bottom of this.The order was placed in a shop.The owner offers installation but subs this work out.He was not aware of the call outs as the installer gave my friend his own number.I managed to negotiate a €170 refund after explaining what had happened so that brings the cost down to €455 a bit more believeable.The fixings are now replaced and I have shown him what to do in event of alignment problems.I explained USALS to him and how to reset them in the event of a failure.I doubt that shop will be using the services of that installer again.I know real pros don't generally carry on their business like this as they wouldn't last long in the trade.

 

[Lazarus]

Well you've done your friend a great service - and kudos to the shop owner for behaving decently.

 

[petediscrete]

Yes thats all he was asking for.The installer told him not to worry about anything past 28 e or 30w.Not being savvy he just accepted that.When I showed him Lyngsat he freaked.A different man today with €170 more in his pocket.Alls well that ends well and he is a little more educated into the bargain too.

 

[Channel Hopper]

.The fixings are now replaced and I have shown him what to do in event of alignment problems.I explained USALS to him and how to reset them in the event of a failure.

Can you confirm the dish had physically moved off line in the first two instances, or if it was a case of resetting the receiver only ?

How far was the installer travelling in each of the callouts ?

I trust the dish is within relatively easy (and safe) reach for you and your friend.

 

[Sandybob]

I am glad your friend got it sorted, and the shop keeper offered a part refund, that's actually very good. However I must say when I started into satellite many years ago I could not afford a proffesional installer, so had to do it myself. It's seems daunting at first, trying to find that first satellite and questioning "is it really there" but soon got the hang of it and over the last 15 years or so have no problem going out to tweak the dish a bit, actually I quite enjoy it (but it is a lot easier when the dish is on a groundstand). Perhaps now your mate knows more about the system and how it works he will be able to look after it himself, while learning in the process.

 

[petediscrete]

Can you confirm the dish had physically moved off line in the first two instances, or if it was a case of resetting the receiver only ?

Its hard to say but since I checked it out for him and the fixings were replaced it seems solid.
It is possible that the diseqc jumped a gear during the wind and a "goto X" command would resolve
that.I personally think he didn't set the USALS properly in the first place

How far was the installer travelling in each of the callouts ?

Always called when he was "passing" and at a time that suited him.

I trust the dish is within relatively easy (and safe) reach for you and your friend.

Not particularly and I am recovering from a back injury so climbing a ladder to the upper level
of the house is not easy but I'm getting there.I was able to instruct him what to do and just
checked the settings.


Yes he is now a lot more knowledgeable on matters and should be able to do his own adjustments
as and when required