Total ignorant newbie - HELP with no signal

P

pcspinheiro

Member
My Satellite Setup
Triax 80 cm dish and quad LNB (do not remember brand), noise figure 0.1 dB, Zon receiver (Portugal) .
My Location
Denmark
Dear gurus of these matters,

I desperately need some help in getting my dish to work... Ok, some background:

I'm from Portugal but I'm currently in Denmark. I have always disliked the (expensive) Danish offer for television and recently discovered that the Hispasat satellites, which broadcast Portuguese channels for several service providers, have a decent coverage all the way up to here. So on my latest trip to Portugal I got a subscription (with a 2 year binding... ouch) and brought with me the receiver and the LNB because of a nice 0.1dB noise figure. The house I just moved into has a dish (80 cm, at least) that was setup for some other satellite (guessing astra) and was working fine with its Triax 0.3 dB noise LNB.

Next I went to dishpointer.com and found the correct settings for the dish

Elevation: 16.2°

Azimuth (true): 227.9°
Azimuth (magn.): 225.2°
LNB Skew [?]: 24.8°
dish size: 60 cm

got a visual indication of where the dish should point to (no actual compass but I think it is decent enough, I have good visual indicators such as other building's roof corners and the likes) and set the elevation by putting a ruler from the bottom of the dish to the top of the LNB and using an angle protractor (I don't know the offset angle so I found somewhere on the net that it could be done roughly like this). Then I rotated the LNB as best as I could to match approx 25° .

The box was preset by the service provider so the frequency and symbol rate and all that was done. Yet, no matter what I do it always reads "no signal". I also tried a cheap satfinder but the stupid thing just beeps and moves the needle in a rhythmic manner, independently of the dish's position. What could be wrong here? A faulty LNB (I can try the old one later today...)? Bad alignment despite my best attempts to match what dishpointer.com supplies as direction and elevation? At some point I must have had the dish aligned with the satellite but still never saw the signal indicator move...

Your help/comments would be greatly appreciated, I'm already paying but not using...
 
Forget trying to align by measurements only (only to be used for rough orientation), you'll be at it for days. You'd have been better using the known working LNB and using the receiver signal strength meter to align. Using an offset dish your dish will appear to be pointing downwards, as 16 degrees is very low on the horizon, perhaps a couple of photos will help.
 
I would say don't necessarily trust the calculations. Try moving the dish very slowly up and down and left and right. Maybe Hispasat isn't where you think it is! If I remember correctly, this satellite has different beams and coverage. Do you know that all of your bouquet can be received on a 60cm dish in Denmark? With regard to the satellite beeper, turn it down until it stops wailing. Then, when it finds a real signal it should start again.
 
Hi and thanks for the quick replies!

my dish is actually 80-90 cm, 60 is the recommended minimum size for my location. I know the Hispasat has an European beam and an American beam. I also know that people in Germany are watching Portuguese channels from the same service provider I got. Maybe the frequencies for the receiver are different in my location? Can't find anything about that... bummer... I hope I don't get stuck with a 2 year subscription that I cannot use!!! :-ohcrap
 
I've checked the details for Hispasat and you should have no trouble, subject to correct alignment.

Footprint: _http://www.flysat.com/hispasat-beam.php

Channel Listings: _http://www.flysat.com/hispasat.php


The frequencies are not location dependant!
 
If there is no angle indicator on dish bracket, and you have no meter, it's going to be hard work to align.
The critical thing first is to get the elevation of the dish right.
As rolfw writes the dish will appear to be pointing downwards.
(also make sure there's nothing in the way like trees or neighbours 8)
Your method of using the ruler is not entirely wrong; i would not use top of LNB but probably middle or bottom.
Once you are fairly confident of the elevation, you can start "panning the sky".
Using box as meter (if you can) is better than beeper.

Also keep in mind that dishpointer is approximate, and that it (as you correctly write) is just to get started.

Once you find the correct signal (and you'll probably get other sats before hispasat), tighten the azimuth and optimise the elevation.
 
pcspinheiro said:
Hi and thanks for the quick replies!

my dish is actually 80-90 cm, 60 is the recommended minimum size for my location. I know the Hispasat has an European beam and an American beam. I also know that people in Germany are watching Portuguese channels from the same service provider I got. Maybe the frequencies for the receiver are different in my location? Can't find anything about that... bummer... I hope I don't get stuck with a 2 year subscription that I cannot use!!! :-ohcrap
Click to expand...

nono, it's just a matter of alignment. Also make sure that the skew is in the right direction!
 
Copenhagen (Hvidovre to be more precise, just moved into a new house). If everything else fails I will invite over for coffee (and dish setup! :D) if you're close by!
 
Sure, I work in Ballerup, so it's not to far out of the way.
PM me for address exchange etc if everything else fails. 8)
 
pcspinheiro has not been a member for long enough to be given PM priveleges.

If he is unable to sort the problem himself he could ask an Admin to enable them for him.

Going back to the aligment problem. Adjust the dish EW according to dishpointer and then, starting with the dish face "looking" slightly downwards adjust it upwards a bit at a time checking your receiver for signal information after each adjustment. Wait a few seconds after each adjustment for the receiver to catch up, it's no use moving it upwards in a long continuous movement.

As others have said the optimal adjustment should be with the face roughly vertical. once you get a sniff of the signal then it's relatively easy to narrow the various adjustments to get the best possible alignment. The last one to be adjusted should be skew.
 
The only thing is that pre-adjusting the skew will help if using the receiver signal strength/quality readout, particularly with edge of arc satellites.
 
Thank you all to your valuable input! I will give it a try today if the nice Danish weather permits... I'll either be back to praise your guruness or to annoy you some more :D

Best,

Paulo.
 
OK, yesterday I was trying again to get at least a hint of signal and nothing! I also tried with both LNBs: first I set the elevation angle with a ruler placed from the lower edge of the dish to the middle of the LNB and an angle protractor with an improvised string-and-wheight needle. The angle must have been very close to perfect! Then I "panned the sky" with very small, gentle movements at a time but nothing, niet, nada! Then I started thinking about what Hughes said, that Hispasat might not be where I think it is... it just happens that my dish is sitting in a south facing wall and its edge will hit the wall at some point, preventing me to turn it further west. Maybe the real 30W position is further west than I can reach and I was mislead by dishpointer.com which, as someone said, is good only as a starting point. It does seem to turn far enough (or more that that for that matter) but in any case I have made up my mind and I will be moving it either closer to the edge so that it car turn around the corner or away from the wall so it can turn more. I cannot actually put it in the west facing wall because there would be trees blocking a direct line to the sky...

I will be back to annoy you nice people if nothing good comes my way. :D

Thanks again!
 
Some pics would help enormously.
 
Yes, you are right! Will do that first thing when I get back home.

Cheers!
 
OK, here are two pics from google maps/dishpointer.com that may help. The first shows the whole house and pinpoints the exact position of the dish on the south facing wall (with a close look you can see the arm of the dish sticking out on top of the dark bush when it was in its previous position). The green line is where dishpointer.com tells me I should aim the dish. The second photo shows a little more of the surroundings and the corner of the roof across the street that I used as a visual guide for the first positioning. Of course the fact that I cannot stand behind the dish doesn't help my case but standing under it it does seem that it can turn all the way there and a tiny little more. I will get picture from the actual dish and wall later.

Cheers!
 

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pcspinheiro said:
first I set the elevation angle with a ruler placed from the lower edge of the dish to the middle of the LNB and an angle protractor with an improvised string-and-wheight needle. The angle must have been very close to perfect!
Click to expand...
This angle is NOT the elevation angle. Because the LNB is off-set downwards it looks up to the dish, not straight on.

If there is no scale on the adjusting bracket at the back of the dish then do it in the order I have said. Set the east-west position and then start with the dish pointing much lower. Gradually increase the height that the dish is "looking" at and with a bit of luck you'll be close enough at some point to then home in exactly.

Rolf has suggested that you adjust the skew first but there is the problem that you might just turn the LNB the wrong way and totaly stop signals I would start with the LNB being vertical, or better the position it used to be for the other satellite, as it's not a weak signal area you are in.

Have a look at other satellite dishes around the place. All the ones with off-set LNBs (the majority of them) will end up with the dish face being nearly vertical.
 
In Denmark, for Hispasat, the dish face will actually need to be facing downwards somewhere around 10 deg: Counter-intuitive, I know. But nonetheless true.
 
I've looked at your photos and although 16.2° is quite low the tree looks a fair distance away.

Tivu is right, with an elevation of only 16.2°, the dish face will be slightly downwards.
 
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