Ultimate blind scan wishlist

[Huevos]

Please answer in detail because I'm going to try to turn any sensible ideas into reality.

What would be on your ultimate blind scan wishlist?
What is missing from blind scan?
What features could be added to make blind scan better?
What things go wrong with the blind scan that could be improved?
What could make a blind scan more user friendly?
What improvements could be made to help feedhunters?

 

[wod]

Hardware based blind scan like the vantage x221 or 8000s has, which scans both h&v but with dvb-s2 and 4:2:2 support.

Selectable steps to scan in e.g 1-5mhz.

 

[Huevos]

Hardware based blind scan like the vantage x221 or 8000s has, which scans both h&v but with dvb-s2 and 4:2:2 support.

Selectable steps to scan in e.g 1-5mhz.

Wod, thanks for the input. I'm talking about the software that controls the hardware. Hardware is S2 capable and step size is governed by the hardware. 4:2:2 would be found anyway by any blind scan, just as it is on the Vantage x221.

So what I am really asking is what filters, etc, would you like to be able to control to make your blind scan results more useful. Things like ignore DTH transponders.

 

[aceb]

I was going to suggest something like that Huevos, one example is 12.5W with that Xtreme MUX stuck in the middle of a busy feed section. As I save directly to the DVB Dream folder I either have to edit it out of a scan or waste time rescanning it. If that's proves tricky then a part fix would be the ability to limit the upper SR value. Be nice to click directly on any results and have it open TS Reader.

 

[Vipersan]

Apart from the 4.2.2 which isn't relevant to your question ...but is sadly omitted from most receivers ..
I'd like to be able to blind scan with a reenforced time interval ..
For example some channels do not lock immediately ...particularly 8PSK 7/8 or low SR channels ..
Most stbs try maybe once or twice making the pass ...and then move on ..thus ignoring a potential channel or feed ..
Most frustating ..as the channel clearly exists ..and persisant manual scanning of the same transponder often gets a lock..
I'd like therefore to be able to change this 'persistance of interrogation' ..obviously it can't hang indefinately ..but a settable time limit before moving on would be a good thing for feeds and fringe channels.
So basically a settable persistant in depth scan facility under user control.

There are times when I want to just do a quick scan ..but this misses things ..
There are times (more often) when I want a thorough in depth scan ...and I'd sacrifice speed for thoroughness any day
Hope this makes sense..
rgds
VS

 

[wod]

my thoughts is just a more customisable search parimeters being able to manually limit the symbol rates as all the other options are already present.

In Linux you could create a blind scan file with exceptions don't scan these frequencys, look for these symbol rates etc.

 

[Vipersan]

my thoughts is just a more customisable search parimeters being able to manually limit the symbol rates as all the other options are already present.

In Linux you could create a blind scan file with exceptions don't scan these frequencys, look for these symbol rates etc.

Agreed Wod ...but I have a preference for hardware blind scanning ...and thats the problem ..
Unless the manufacturer allows access to the file system ..its hard wired and often they don't include such options in the firmware ..I assume this is because in theory it could confuse customers generally ..
..but as a serious DXer ..those adjustable parameters are exactly what I _do_want
rgds
VS

 

[Zorch]

Hi Huevos et al,

Currently the 'Blind Scan' on my Technomate 5402 HD CI+ Super+ uses a 'Step' method in the search parameters... as follows...

Step
1MHz
2MHz
4MHz
8MHz
16MHz
32MHz

I have found that no matter which 'Step' increment I employ... the receiver is still missing/not finding certain TP's each-time I 'Blind Scan'... and remarkably some of the TP's it misses will have excellent strong signals... therefore I really do not like this method...

What I would like to see on my Technomate 5402 HD CI+ Super+ is a S/R search in 'Blind Scan' similar to the one that is on my TM 5400 CI+ USB (SD Model)

On the TM 5400 CI+ USB (SD Model) you can 'Blind Scan' using the following parameters...

S/R Search
Fast
Detail
7.5M Over
7.5M Under
3.7M Under

Perhaps a more up-to-date S/R Search would have the parameters set as follows...

S/R Search
Fast
Detail
10.0M Over
10.0M Under
5.0M Over
5.0M Under

This way you would be able to filter nearly all feed transponders with low S/R (usually under 10.0M) from the large packages with high/very high S/R (usually above 10.0M)

This would also help significantly when it comes to 'Overspill' from other satellites... especially when you 'Blind Scan' a satellite that is very close to a much more powerful neighbour...

Best Wishes,
Zorch

 

[Vipersan]

Hi Huevos et al,

Currently the 'Blind Scan' on my Technomate 5402 HD CI+ Super+ uses a 'Step' method in the search parameters... as follows...

Step
1MHz
2MHz
4MHz
8MHz
16MHz
32MHz

I have found that no matter which 'Step' increment I employ... the receiver is still missing/not finding certain TP's each-time I 'Blind Scan'... and remarkably some of the TP's it misses will have excellent strong signals... therefore I really do not like this method...

What I would like to see on my Technomate 5402 HD CI+ Super+ is a S/R search in 'Blind Scan' similar to the one that is on my TM 5400 CI+ USB (SD Model)

On the TM 5400 CI+ USB (SD Model) you can 'Blind Scan' using the following parameters...

S/R Search
Fast
Detail
7.5M Over
7.5M Under
3.7M Under

Perhaps a more up-to-date S/R Search would have the parameters set as follows...

S/R Search
Fast
Detail
10.0M Over
10.0M Under
5.0M Over
5.0M Under

This way you would be able to filter nearly all feed transponders with low S/R (usually under 10.0M) from the large packages with high/very high S/R (usually above 10.0M)

This would also help significantly when it comes to 'Overspill' from other satellites... especially when you 'Blind Scan' a satellite that is very close to a much more powerful neighbour...

Best Wishes,
Zorch

I agree Zorch ...we need full control over bandwidth during searches ...also agc level control ...plus repeat attempts at searches of transponders ..(multiple attemps on a time set control) ..as I outlined rather clumsily earlier..

 

[Huevos]

my thoughts is just a more customisable search parimeters being able to manually limit the symbol rates as all the other options are already present.

In Linux you could create a blind scan file with exceptions don't scan these frequencys, look for these symbol rates etc.

Pretty much got all that done already. Yes it is for Linux, for hardware blind scan capable receivers (Vu+ Uno, Ultimo, Extrend, ET5000, ET9000 etc). Start and stop symbol rates range from 1 to 45 MHz so you can do a search 1-2MHz if you choose. Tried this on 53E and picked up quite a bit. Also to filter the search you can set it to only scan for transponders not in the transponder database which means you can completely avoid known transponders from entering the results. Also I got it synchronizing with the known transponders so these are searched exactly on the frequency in the transponder list (which avoids duplicate channels). Also, don't know if it is useful to anyone but I've got it making a list of found transponders to display to screen without channel scan. Works well for transponders that are below lock level. All working so far in C-band and Ku.

Any other ideas???

 

[Huevos]

There are times when I want to just do a quick scan ..but this misses things ..
There are times (more often) when I want a thorough in depth scan ...and I'd sacrifice speed for thoroughness any day

That's not how a Linux box works. It's a 2 step process. First it searches the band for transponders, then it scans for channels. First step only takes a minute. Second step is identical to a normal channel scan from the transponder database. It does miss stuff sometimes but is so fast that doing multiple scans is easy.

 

[Huevos]

'Overspill' from other satellites... especially when you 'Blind Scan' a satellite that is very close to a much more powerful neighbour...

That gives me another idea. There could be an option to ignore all transponders on neighbouring satellites.

The low symbol rate thing is a problem for lots of receivers. It is because low SR channels are low power. The signal meter might give a power level the same as high SR transponders but the high SR transponder is 10x the power. It's because the low SR transponder is say 70dB and 3MHz wide and the high SR channel is 70dB and 30MHz wide.

 

[Vipersan]

Once you have ironed out all the niggles ..and have a near perfect scanning tool ..
I might well buy a suitable box ...just for searching ...thus leaving the channel lists of other boxes intact ..until I manually input ..
In your opinion Huevos ..
Which of the boxes you intend the 'tool' for ..has the very highest gain tuner ??
That would be a deciding factor for me ..

No good having the best blind scan tool ..if it still misses fringe chaannels due to lack of gain..
rgds
VS

 

[strs65]

Any other ideas???

Predefined (or user defined at will) frequency ranges for each satellite, eg: 10700 - 10950 MHz, 11200 - 11450, 12500 - 12750, etc. This is implemented in Easy Blindscan, BLScan, for hardware blind scan capable pc cards.

 

[aceb]

That gives me another idea. There could be an option to ignore all transponders on neighbouring satellites.

You must be reading my mind LOL I've just been scanning 25.5E and came back here to suggest this very feature! I was going to say it could be an extension of the ignore DTH transponder feature.

 

[Huevos]

In your opinion Huevos ..
Which of the boxes you intend the 'tool' for ..has the very highest gain tuner ??

I don't know. I didn't buy my receivers for tuner sensitivity, but they are both pretty good. I got them because they are so ggod and user friendly to watch and record TV. For me that's the most important thing. Anything else is a bonus. The reason for the blindscan thing was the receiver has the hardware but the software didn't make the most of it.

 

[Huevos]

I was going to suggest something like that Huevos, one example is 12.5W with that Xtreme MUX stuck in the middle of a busy feed section. As I save directly to the DVB Dream folder I either have to edit it out of a scan or waste time rescanning it. If that's proves tricky then a part fix would be the ability to limit the upper SR value. Be nice to click directly on any results and have it open TS Reader.

Just testing my filter for that. Here's what I did: Network search for all channels on 28E; Updated my transponder list so it corresponds to the DTH transponders on the satellite. Now switch to blind scan. Do a search of all symbol rates (1-45MHz) and all frequencies (10700-12750MHz) and both polarisations. Without the filter on that blind scan would return every active channel on the satellite. With the filter turned on it returns just one channel ("TEST", DVB-S 11066 V 21998).

 

[Huevos]

BTW: It also finds 11165 H 999 in the transponder search, but nothing in the channel search on that transponder.

 

[Huevos]

Here's a screenshot. I'll try and post a youtube video later.

 

[Huevos]

Have a look at this. The only filter turned on for this search was "avoid known transponders". Search was 30W so it is a pretty busy satellite but it manages to find feeds without hitting any DTH. All the other filters work. Video is recorded in 4:3 so it has cut the screen a bit.

[video=youtube;Jl7JRACnVvs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl7JRACnVvs[/video]