Warning - Auxiliary Drive Belts

Lazarus

Lazarus

Retired Moderator
My Satellite Setup
80cm Motorised.
Several small Dishes.
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North York Moors
Last week SWMBO reported her car stalling and an "Orange light" on.

Checked it over and it was running really rough too.

Left it a bit and restarted. Seemed ok apart from Orange light was on and a brief squeal could be heard.

Fortunately we have two cars (Same model!) so she was able to go out.

Thought about it and consulted Manual plus Google and concluded that Oxygen Sensor was goosed.

Had no time to sort it out, so left it and in doing so the little grey cells started veering in other directions.

Next time I started it, there was a heck of a lot of vibration which settled down after a few seconds.

Sh1T, I thought.

Took off Aux Drive Belt and started Engine on Battery only: No problem of any sort.

Took Alternator off and it was stiff to turn so I found a "scrap" one on fleabay and fitted it this morning.

While awaiting bits and pieces, I had disconnected the battery for a day or three and so effectively wiped the ECU fault codes and caused the orange light (a rogue indication) to disappear.

I also carefully inspected the Drive Belt and it appeared ok. Ordered a spare anyway, as a matter of good practice, but it hadn't arrived by the time I'd finished fitting the Alternator, so I refitted the old one.

Problem solved? Well, yes and no as there was a little squeal for a second.

At that precise moment, Postie arrived with my new belt. Fitted and all problems resolved.

Before fitting it, I compared the appearance and bendiness etc. like for like and it was then clear that the old belt was glazed, lacking durability and worn through to metal deep within the ribs.

The lessons are fourfold:

1. A Drive belt should last 120000 km - They don't. Half that, if you're lucky.

2. Not only will a worn belt squeal, it will slap due to lack of durability, enhancing Alternator bearing wear

3. Visual inspection of a suspect belt in isolation is a waste of time. Just replace it anyway

4. A failing Alternator can cause stalling, vibration, false ECU response and error codes (Later confirmed by Googling), so think long and hard before diving in.



Repair cost? £62 all in.

No lump hammers required.
 
Good advice, we recently had a vehicle in the workshop for poor running.
Initial diagnostics showed nothing but we did spot that the aux belt had frayed, closer inspection revealed a piece had wrapped its self around the crank pulley. ( No bid deal we thought ) Wrong!!
The strain had caused the woodruff key to shear on the camshaft causing the pulley to move about 1.5 teeth, amazing nothing more than a key and a belt was required.
The car was 3 years old with 63k on the clock.
 
I feel a few more tales coming out of the woodwork before we are done here!
 
I do all (or as much as I can now that age and infirmity seem to be catching up with me) of my own servicing. I did a complete timing belt, auxilliary belt and pulleys change on both the Xsara and C5 at around the 150,000 mile mark. To be honest, they all looked as they had a fair few miles left but I felt a lot better after they had been changed.
 
A good result.

Cambelts are not rated for 120000 km so why do the manufactures think the auxiliary belt would last that long?!

As the battery has been off long enough to reset the ECU, it helps to drive 'sensibly' for the first 5 miles to reset it. If you belt along it tends to learn fuel wasting habits as it assumes you floor it everywhere.

How old is the battery?

I suppose it will have been exposed to that 'stuff which is meant to have disappeared due to global warming' over the last few years, and that stuff is going to return in a month or two. Polar night will be starting soon and that will add to the amount of freezing cold air circulating to the north of us. . .
 
@PaulR: Snap (Bad choice of word?)!

Well, on servicing/repair in general - I have it in mind to tackle Cam Belt next year, but I can get a Belt/Tensioner kit for £35 and the independent who does my tyres/exhaust might end up getting the job (He claims it's in his portfolio!!)

TBH, I think a lot of folk are not happy tackling DiY on modern cars owing to the "complexity" - but if you remember that most faults are essentially the same ones we used to get in the days of Distributors and Carburettors, a reasonably competent chappie (or, indeed, chappess) should have little to fear.


Apart from the rogue ECU warnings.
 
@Hexah: Five year old battery. No reason to believe it is sus in any way.

And yes, I have taken care to teach the ECU once more.

As for watery matters, the Grande Punto (for it is she) has a design fault whereby the wiper drain is misdirected through failed sealant on a a plastic access hatch before it has chance to flow to the correct drain. This results in bulkhead rusting and possible dripping onto ............... the alternator.

Some Kurust and a gunful of gutter sealant has sorted this on both our cars. Came across the cause whilst researching my alternator failure - and certainly hadn't previously recognised the symptoms for what they were. At least I won't eventually end up with a wet footwell now.
 
That reminds me, I must get out the multimeter and check my battery, but I think it should be ok.

I guess that the Fiat was designed for use in the southern part of Italy where water is not so much of a problem. I heard a while ago of some Fiat 500s that arrived in this country with 15w40 oil. The factory must have had in mind those places in Italy which regard 9C as a very cold winter temperature and forgot that here it is now more of an average summer temperature :(. I believe they were changed to 5w30 when the first change became due.
 
ECU?? I have a (1990'ish) Nissan Micra, which is my only form of transport. I had the brake master cylinder changed a couple of months ago after obtaining a new one from the UK and paying €113 including delivery. Prices for non French car spares are exhorbitant here, supposing you can track some down.

Like PaulR, I'm getting beyond doing my own servicing other than very minor things so I used an English mobile mechanic who lives close by (ex Subaru WRC Rally Team no less!) who fitted the master cylinder, replaced the fluid and bled the whole system in less than two hours then charged me just €40 - needless to say I gave him €50. Cost in a French garage probably €300 - €400 plus parts.
 
hexah said:
...arrived in this country with 15w40 oil ...Italy which regard 9C as a very cold winter temperature ... they were changed to 5w30 when the first change became due.
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Probably the other way round as 15w30 is a thicker oil than 5w30.
 
With the 15w40 a winter subzero cold start would be like a tractor cold start, and if they are lucky it would be complete with a loud rasping farting noise accompanied by a puff of blackened stuff from the exhaust pipe. It doesn't seem to harm the tractors but they are indestructible.

5w30 will start without any excitement even if they happen to have -28C that morning. Kind to the engine, but not fun for the spectators.

Of course they would be well aware of that, the factory is in Poland, I suppose they were just trying to save money or use up what they happened to have available.
 
sonnetpete said:
ECU?? I have a (1990'ish) Nissan Micra, which is my only form of transport.
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Speaking of tractors, that Nissan seems to be in the same league. How many miles does it have on it now? I bet that only rust will stop it now.

sonnetpete said:
Prices for non French car spares are exhorbitant here, supposing you can track some down. . . Cost in a French garage probably €300 - €400 plus parts.
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The French are rather good at protectionism. I bet Citroen, Renault and Peugeot spares are almost freebies by comparison. I suppose a French car would be the choice if you have to retire the Nissan. Loads of Renault 4 and 2CV are still going strong, it is a pity some of the later cars have such dodgy electrics. Or there is always a cart drawn by the small goats. . .
 
My very first car was an R4. Apart from the rusted floor, it was excellent and probably still tops the list of favourites, along with a couple of Spitfires and a Midget.
 
hexah said:
Speaking of tractors, that Nissan seems to be in the same league. How many miles does it have on it now? I bet that only rust will stop it now.



The French are rather good at protectionism. I bet Citroen, Renault and Peugeot spares are almost freebies by comparison. I suppose a French car would be the choice if you have to retire the Nissan. Loads of Renault 4 and 2CV are still going strong, it is a pity some of the later cars have such dodgy electrics. Or there is always a cart drawn by the small goats. . .
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It's done nearly 78,000 miles. Not bad for a car that was a freebie! Hopefully it'll last me another four years then I can replace it with a motorhome when I sell up and go travelling.

I don't think that pukka spare parts for French cars are that much cheaper than other 'voiture etrangers'. There's a fair following for Mercedes, VW, Audi etc. Not forgetting Dacia which has a tie in with a French manufacturer (which one escapes me now).

Goats are notoriously obstinate and the thought of trying to go anywhere by that method is not I think, a realistic prospect.
 
sonnetpete said:
Not forgetting Dacia which has a tie in with a French manufacturer (which one escapes me now).
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Renault I think. I saw lots of them in one of the countries I went through on the Grand Tour.

Bleedin' ugly cars though, with an especially awkward styling at the rear.
 
One simple bit of maintenance of belts if they're getting abit squeaky is just to slacken the alternator's adjuster nut, pull the alternator upwards (or sideways, depends on your engine configuration) until it's tight, and the squeal should go away, if it's still squealy, you have seizure on your hands (Alternator, A/C pump, Water pump, etc.), NEVER rev your engine to "get rid of the squeal" as this just makes it worse and if you snap your belt, you could cause major damage to the engine if the one belt does the water pump and you lose cooling capability... :-Nooo

And as for 2CVs, they're still going cos they have little to go wrong, they have 1 belt (alternator), they have no water system, and they're so basic that they're just so simple to repair if something does go wrong... :D
 
Needing to tighten the belt can mean, of course, that it has stretched (and probably hardened) so while I agree with what you say, the very next thing to do is order a new belt.

Either that or sprinkle it with talc!!
 
Tivù said:
Either that or sprinkle it with talc!!
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Ah belt conditioner with a pleasant aroma
 
PaulR said:
Renault I think. I saw lots of them in one of the countries I went through on the Grand Tour.

Bleedin' ugly cars though, with an especially awkward styling at the rear.
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Yes, I think you're right, it is Renault. Very popular round here, as I think it offers an affordable way of running a new car (that is still French in a way) for people on a low budget without resorting to a 'sans permis' two seater that is usually driven at 30KPH in the middle of the road. In fact very much like the tractor they were previously used to driving!! Though the following sans permis is actually very cute (and incredibly pricey!!)

_http://www.lefigaro.fr/automobile/2011/06/29/03001-20110629ARTFIG00411-chatenet-ch-26-le-luxe-sans-permis.php
 
That little sans-permis car looks like a mini-bmw-mini, probably about the size of a genuine-mini.... O-Ha

Though if it sounds like one of them little Aixam cars, yuck!!! :eek:
 
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