What about RTE ?

A welcomed and rational post easysat and your points have been duly taken onboard :)

As such, I will hold off from being an insignificant and rambunctious expat for a while: I have stated my position and will come back and comment on events as they unfold.

Thankfully - SKY, RTE and the Scottish Premier League have all aired their views to date.

My only fear is that this mere BBC bird-hop will get lost in orbit thanks of other, more life threatening, events.

You have to hand it to the BBC on their stunt-pulling timing - its almost worth every penny of the Licence Fee. <@>

Have Fun,

Mark.
 
More info from The Gaurdian:

"Irish twist to BBC/Sky row

Owen Gibson
Monday March 17, 2003

The BBC is facing exile in up to 6.6 million TV homes in an extraordinary power struggle that could force the government to choose between Rupert Murdoch and Greg Dyke.

The BBC director general's decision to sever ties with Sky TV in digital satellite broadcasting will mean viewers may no longer see BBC1 and BBC2 listings pop up first when they switch on their TVs because of a conflict of interest with an Irish broadcaster.

Instead it is likely viewers will to have to scroll through six pages of listings to find the two main BBC channels, which will be relegated to 52nd and 53rd slots in the on-screen equivalent of the Radio Times that helps satellite viewers navigate through hundreds of channels.

The demotion of BBC1 and BBC2 could have enormous impact on the corporation's audience figures and force a showdown with regulators and the government.

"This is a negotiating gambit and it is as much about the BBC and what it wants from the government as it is about what the BBC wants from Sky ," said one source close to the situation.

The BBC announced last week it was cutting free of the BSkyB TV network in a bid to save £85m in encryption fees, but it has now emerged that a contractual arrangement with RTE in Ireland could hamper its plans to go it alone.

The BBC currently pays Sky TV £150,000 a year to have the two top slots in the "electronic programme guide" but once the corporation moves to its own satellite, which will also broadcast straight into Ireland, it will no longer be guaranteed the prime positions.

RTE 1 and Network 2 channels are guaranteed the two top slots in the Republic and BSkyB insiders have indicated they will not be prepared to move them to make way for the BBC's new unencrypted broadcasts.

At the moment both the BBC and RTE can take top slots in the countries they serve because the conditional access technology allows parallel EPGs in different regions.

But because the BBC plans to use a new satellite that has a cross-border footprint this will become no longer possible.

Mr Dyke today insisted he will go ahead with the move, even if the BBC channels were relegated to the bottom of the list on the EPG.

But as the number of television channels on the Sky Digital system continues to multiply, the BBC's digital channels face getting lost among the hundreds of channels available.

Research shows digital TV viewers are notoriously fickle and if they can't find what they want to watch immediately are likely to give up and watch something else.

And even if RTE was willing to move for the BBC, the broadcaster does not have the right to "trade" their slots with the BBC channels because the system is managed by Sky, which is obliged to provide EPG slots on a "fair and non discriminatory" basis.

"Anything that requires differentiation for different regions requires some sort of conditional access service from Sky. I don't see how the BBC are going to get around this," said one City analyst.

Executives at Murdoch-controlled BSkyB and at least one former ITV executive believes Mr Dyke's latest move is designed to force the government to introduce a lifetime guarantee maintaining the BBC's position at the top of the EPG.

"The BBC is doing exactly what we thought we could do at ITV. It just won't work," said the former ITV executive.

However, the culture secretary, Tessa Jowell, has made it clear in earlier stages of the communications bill that she is not going to intervene in a new "must carry" row about BSkyB carrying BBC channels.

Last week the government's media adviser, Ed Richards, told an advertising conference the BBC's decision was part of commercial negotiations between the two companies and the government would not intervene.

The BBC said there were a number of technical issues it intended to discuss with Sky and for which it expects to pay a "fair market rate", including the issue of switching between various regional versions of its programmes.

"The BBC will try to paint Sky as some sort of evil operation and force the government to take sides," said one industry observer.

A BBC spokeswoman played down the concerns, saying: "These are the very points about which we are going to start negotiating with Sky. However, if things aren't working out, we will go to Oftel and take other steps.""

As I said before the BBC are really making the situation worse.
 
I read on What Satellites webpage that the BBC will go FTA on Astra 2D! Surely they must have made a mistake, not like What Sat?
 
I read on What Satellites webpage that the BBC will go FTA on Astra 2D!
Click to expand...

No error in the article.

Have Fun,

Mark.
 
Originally posted by mljgmljg
Quick comment on Rolf's post.

With this decision the BBC have effectively killed-off the licence fee. There is no way a locally residing Brit is going to cough-up the licence fee - when half of europe can receive eight BBC TV channels for free.

Now, my continuing Rant.

Since 'Black Wednesday' not a single party (BBC, BSKYB, GOVT, SES-ASTRA, Major Film Distributor’s, or, even RTE) have commented further on these bird-hopping shenanigan's.

I am formulating the nicest possible letter to all those above; because I don't believe for one moment that BBC have thought about what they are doing: save for the grandiose announcement made by Greg Dyke (who (sic) has been mis-informed that you will still be able to use BBCi on, say, a Nokia MM9800).

The BBC must not be allowed to blow holes in EU legislature, mess up future rights negotiations (which will inevitably be more expensive), the TWF directive, ignore competition concerns of cross border broadcaster's and transmit beyond the UK signals from the world's most well-known and (debatable) the world's best broadcaster.

I hope that all ex-pats who currently pay (as I do) to watch BBC channels will express their concerns to all parties that might affect change in this case.

Mark's ever-so-simple math's lesson (not too many mistakes I hope):

WITH ENCRYPTION:

GBP 17 million (EPG/Encryption) / 6.8 million (min) SKY subscriber's = GBP 2.50 per viewer per year (includes one-off and replaceable card and free P+P).

a. Ensures cheaper right's for content (due to controlled borders).
b. Better National Border control (through encryption).
c. Licence Fee control (no pay - no watch).
d. Allows for paid-up clever ex-pats to have a reminder of the UK.
e. Enables local right's control (Scots and Welsh footy for one).

WITHOUT ENCRYPTION:

GBP 30K (for EPG only) / 6.8 million subs (as above) = 0.004 Pence per viewer per year.

a. No quantifiable border controls.
b. Ensure higher right's negotiations.
c. Local and cross-border competition concerns.
d. FTA viewing for non-licence fee payer's across western and middle europe (why pay for your licence).
e. Loss of signal to paid-up ex-pats in wider europe.
f. Local Right's Issues become irrelevant (e.g. no extra income for Scots and Welsh football)
g. Continued use of SKY digibox technologies without realistic contributions to development (i.e. the BBC taking the p*ss).
h. Extra carriage costs incurred by extension to channels transmitted (4 - 5 tps in total. Current, 3 tps)
i. Bogus investment in BBC local regions and Nations.

Do you still believe this is a good idea? Are they going to pour this 'saved' money into programmes? And what about Johnny Foreigner being able to watch for free - while you have to pay (something to stir-up a Brit for sure)?

One hopes that the BBC shuts up, pays up and stays put.

Regards,

Mark.
Click to expand...

Well I have been able to receive bbc in ireland with a uhf arial for years. RTE had to live with that and the will have to live with it on sky now.
 
@Martin,

I have had SKY Digital for years and have to live with the fact that RTE is encrypted.

There is one thing for sure, you won't be able to to pick-up the 22 regional versions of BBC1 and BBC2 and a further eight digital channels through that UHF aerial of yours.

On the one other hand you will be able to view all 30 channels if you have a digital satellite receiver. I, on the other hand, will still not be able to watch RTE.

Final thought: Anyone who lives in the UK knows that you don't get anything for free (unless you steal it).

Habitually getting something for free is called 'Freeloading' and most people despise freeloaders. The BBC will be (sic) creating millions of freeloaders on the 31st May, 2003.

Back to the top: UHF transmissions cannot be controlled. Digital Television can; if a broadcaster coughs up the dosh - which the BBC was happy to do five years ago.

GBP 85 million is not a lot to cough-up over five years to control access to what will be an astonishing 30 channels!!! Perhaps, if we didn't have that many channels - we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I promised not to rant :mad:

Regards,

Mark.
 
Originally posted by mljgmljg


Back to the top: UHF transmissions cannot be controlled. Digital Television can; if a broadcaster coughs up the dosh - which the BBC was happy to do five years ago.

Click to expand...

Yes, but weren't the BBC getting a special low price before?

A standard marketing practice : you offer a low price to get someone hooked and help fight off the competition. Then you increase the price knowing it's very difficult for the customer to go elsewhere.

The BBC should have thought about whether it needed to encrypt or not right at the start. If the answer was yes, it should have gone for simulcrypt from the beginning. I am sure it could have got a low price from another encryption provider like Viaccess anxious to encourage non-Sky subscribers to equip themselves with their CAM. Then they would have had a better stick to beat Sky with.
 
Alot of people are complaining about viewers receiving domestic BBC programs abroad - whether now or after Black Friday - without paying the license fee.

The point is being missed here that viewers abroad CAN'T pay the license fee. I for one would be HAPPY to pay the license fee to be able to watch the domestice BBC channels legally here in Berlin.

Dogmatix.
 
I couldn't agree more easysat ;)

I believe that SKY gave the BBC a 'below market rate' deal at the time. There hasn't been any mention of what the new rates would amount to - save for this.

Guardian: the cost of listing each channel on the SKY EPG will trebble from GBP 28,000 a year to GBP 75,000 (due to new rates).
Click to expand...

That's GBP 2.25 million for EPG listings of 30 channels alone?

However, SKY have said to broadcaster's that if they take out an encryption option, their EPG costs will be discounted; which is fair game. ;) More fool the BBC.

Yet, there is another problem. The BBC will have to increase its transponder capacity to between 5 and 7 (IMHO). They currently use 3! Well, transponders are not that cheap, so add that cost to the 2.25 million. I could carry on .........................

I totally agree that the BBC should have thought about their DSAT carriage earlier and properly; as you suggest.

For example, if SKY can use Eurobird 1 to provide its own platform with channels then I am sure, too, that UK broadcasters could have done the same, chosen their own encryption system, opened the market for FTA/FTV receivers, et al. But, SKY caressed all the right pleasure zones - answered all their dreams.

Well, it provided an immediate solution.

The BBC has so intrinsically wrapped itself around the digibox and its proprietary software that there is no other DVB-S option: else for dumping BBCi. Great.

If only we could turn back the clock? Its something I might well be dreaming of come the 31st May.

Channel4 and five is not quite a full compliment of televisiual enjoyment is it?

Enjoy the weekend.

Mark.
 
@QWERTY,

Well, if you install a big enough dish by Black Friday - you won't have to suffer the indignation of coughing-up for a UK TV licence ;)

See: http://www.satberlin.de/onlineshop/index.html

A 125cm dish and substantial bracket for said UFO will set you back €160.00; which I think is a damned good price!!! (results not guaranteed).

Regards,

Mark.
 
Originally posted by mljgmljg
@ David,

Excellent letter. From tomorrow I shall be sending out a significant amount of correspondence to various people; especially those with important sounding job titles.

Naturally, I shall write to the radio contact you refer to in your post. If other affected reader's get the chance they should do the same.

Let's hope we hear of a BBC retreat soon.

Mark.
Click to expand...

The BBC is still advising people on how to receive BBC Radio across Europe. Their website is still encouraging would be listeners to fork out for a digital receiver/dish etc. Then they'll discontinue the service in a couple of months time.

Very unfair
 
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