Eutelsat 28A switchoff looming

[M60]

M60, that is not an assumption. When I did my Research before Setting up the 240 CM 2 years ago I had a contact at SES in Munich (SES Platform Services) and the man said, that all the new birds can use any band on any antenna from any ... ! Which makes sense because there are no more restriction. I reckon flexibility is everthing.

Interesting, does increase flexibility a lot, in fact compared to the situation of the sole Astra 2D 16x UK TP's we were in prior to the launch of these new birds it's a big leap forward.

I wouldn't be surprised if the PE antennas, apart from retaining craft flexibility within the fleet, were solely modelled for Sky's benefit as they have a vested interest in serving mainland Europe.

I wonder if SES charge a premium for UK spot antenna usage from a given TP? Maybe you know the answer to this, appreciate for confidentility reasons if you can't divulge.

 

[timo_w2s]

I wouldn't be surprised if the PE antennas, apart from retaining craft flexibility within the fleet, were solely modelled for Sky's benefit as they have a vested interest in serving mainland Europe.

I really don't buy that ex-pat theory. SES want some wide beams so they can use their birds at other slots for complete backup of their fleet. If anything they've compromised and centred the 2F and 2E Europe beams more at the UK for UK & Ireland's benefit with the possibility of using these beams for Europe wide if needed in an emergency or after the satellites have finished their service at 28E. If 2F/2E/2G only had spot beams they'd be next to useless if needed at 19E for example. I think the fact that the 2G Europe beam isn't even centred on the UK says a lot.

 

[mickwig]

I wonder if SES charge a premium for UK spot antenna usage from a given TP? Maybe you know the answer to this, appreciate for confidentility reasons if you can't divulge.

Sorry I do not know the answer to that question. But seeing how tight funds are for the BBC and I suppose other program providers, the pricing will more than likely be the same or maybe depending on the amount of viewers you can reach.

 

[mickwig]

Interesting, does increase flexibility a lot, in fact compared to the situation of the sole Astra 2D 16x UK TP's we were in prior to the launch of these new birds it's a big leap forward.

I wouldn't be surprised if the PE antennas, apart from retaining craft flexibility within the fleet, were solely modelled for Sky's benefit as they have a vested interest in serving mainland Europe.

I wonder if SES charge a premium for UK spot antenna usage from a given TP? Maybe you know the answer to this, appreciate for confidentility reasons if you can't divulge.

Well there are still gaps in the bands (eg 2F can't do 10.7-10.95) but I take your point about them being more flexible than ever. So in your opinion do you think they could run everything off UK spot beams and do away with Europe beams altogether?

To me it's looking like 10.7-11.7GHz will be mostly UK spots, if not all.
11.7-12.7GHz will be mostly Europe beams with some UK spots.

I suppose that the SES is just thinking like a company. When the birds were ordered the BBC was still spending money. Since then they have cut down on transponder space and are thinking of more savings. So SES is just keepeing its options open.

I hope myself that it will not come to that. Icannot get a lock on 12.422 in the moment despite the hardware.

 

[solly]

I really don't buy that ex-pat theory. SES want some wide beams so they can use their birds at other slots for complete backup of their fleet. If anything they've compromised and centred the 2F and 2E Europe beams more at the UK for UK & Ireland's benefit with the possibility of using these beams for Europe wide if needed in an emergency or after the satellites have finished their service at 28E. If 2F/2E/2G only had spot beams they'd be next to useless if needed at 19E for example. I think the fact that the 2G Europe beam isn't even centred on the UK says a lot.

2g will be use europe beam
if it take 12.50 much beeter then 2f

 

[4wd]

Very low 11307 V levels here now, but probably due to the 2/3 fec, am keeping a good picture (long after 10964 >11126 are gone for the evening).

Thanks goodness, looks like after all will be able to watch the 76th re-runs of 'Diana: Her True Story' & 'The Great Escape' :O)

 

[woborny]

11307 V now 2F UK beam
11343 V now 2F UK beam
11307 H now 2F UK beam
11344 H now 2F UK beam

Are we sure the last one is on the UK beam?
I have just had a report from someone in south of Spain who says he has lost channels on the first three frequencies, but is still receiving channels on 11344. I have no further information, just what he has said to me today.

 

[Tururu]

Motorized antenna 94cm (98x90xm) from Madrid (Spain)
Antena motorizada de 94cm (98x90xm) desde Madrid (España)

Signal reduction of these tp/Reduccion de señal en estos tp's.

Comparing levels 1-6-2015 14:00 ==========> with 2-2-2015 14:50
DB800S-HD
11307H= 8.50dB Señal/SNR53% AGC99% BER 0 --- -1'0dB
11307V= 9.00dB Señal/SNR56% AGC99% BER 0 --- -0'5dB
11343V= 9.00dB Señal/SNR56% AGC99% BER 0 --- -2'0dB
11344H= 8.50dB Señal/SNR53% AGC99% BER 0 --- -3dB

Comparing levels 1-6-2015 14:30 ==========> with 2-2-2015 14:50
VU+DUO2
11307V= 9.10dB Señal/SNR57% AGC69% BER 0 --- -1'5dB
11307H= 9.10dB Señal/SNR55% AGC69% BER 0 xxxxxxxxxx
11343V= 9.50dB Señal/SNR58% AGC74% BER 0 --- -1'8dB
11344H= 9.00dB Señal/SNR56% AGC74% BER 0 --- -2'3dB

More complete listing/Listado mas completo en:
https://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/threads/niveles-de-señal-en-282ºeste-desde-madrid-1-6-2015-14-00-y-poder-comparar.165504/

 

[nml]

No it has definately gone in Southern Spain, unless he is watching hd but it is a different frequency.

 

[Tururu]

DB800S-HD 1-6-2015 22:50

11307H= 9.00dB Señal/SNR56% AGC99% BER 0
11307V= 9.50dB Señal/SNR59% AGC99% BER 0 
11343V= 9.50dB Señal/SNR59% AGC99% BER 0 
11344H= 9.00dB Señal/SNR56% AGC99% BER 0

 

[dxn]

Damned uk beam!!

no signal here... :mad::mad:

 

[Fisty McB]

I don't have the "old" values from yesterday to hand, but on my Vu+ Duo2 receiver this is the quality & strength levels I'm currently getting with a Zone 2 dish fed into a 10/1 diseqc switch...

11307 H - 14.4db 79%
11307 V - 13.8db 79%
11343 V - 13.5db 84%
11344 H - 14.3db 79%

As a comparison, the remaining multiplexes on the E28A super beam have these levels...

11222 H - 11.7db 74%
11224 V - 11.3db 79%
11260 V - 11.8db 79%
11261 H - 11.2db 74%
11389 H - 9.1db 74%
11390 V - 11.4db 74%
11426 V - 10.9db 74%
11428 H - 9.2db 69%

Then there are these levels from two multiplexes on the E28A spot beam 1...

11662 H - 9.7db 69%
11681 V - 12.7db 69%

As a comparison I have the following levels from 2F on the Pan-European beam, the first three was originally transferred over from 2A with the >12.5GHz signals "taken over" from Eutelsat about 18 months ago...

12207 V - 12.6db 79%
12266 H - 13.2db 79%
12304 H - 13.3db 79%
----------------
12520 V - 12.3db 69%
12545 H - 13.8db 69%
12552 V - 12.1db 69%
12604 H - 13.4db 69%
12610 V - 12.3db 69%
12633 H - 13.5db 69%
12640 V - 12.0db 69%
12633 H - 13.3db 74%
12670 V - 12.1db 69% (DVB-S2)

All signals from the 2F & 2E UK spot beams other than those in the 11.2-11.45GHz band have a S/N level of 14.9db or better - the tuner meter tops out at this mark. This includes the temporary BBC Red Button multiplex on 12442 H. AGC is between 84-91%.

If the four multiplexes that transferred over from E28A to 2F this morning are on the UK spot beam, the lower S/N levels comparable to other spot beam signals might be down to cross-polarisation needing the LNB to be skewed properly, to the best of my knowledge the 2F satellite has a skew offset while E28A doesn't, and I know when I set the Zone 2 dish up originally I set the skew primarily for E28A signals. It could also be the case that since these transferred multiplexes are transmitting on frequencies a few MHz off the standard Astra bandplan, it could be that the transponder's available bandwidth is being pushed on offsets not normally intended for it and with a roll-off at the edges forcing current signals to be transmitting at lower power than they are capable of - but this doesn't explain that in this Astra "A" band normally transmissions from the Astra fleet in this frequency range tend to use SRs of 22000 or 23000 depending on wherever DVB-S or DVB-S2 is used, whereas at the moment these multiplexes use a SR of 27500 which Astra doesn't normally do - maybe using a higher SR than normal is pushing the transponders to work at bandwidths at these frequencies wider than normal and again working at lower levels than normal. I wonder if these new Astra satellites have SDR capabilities for downlink transmissions? I suspect we may see some temporary frequency shifting of some multiplexes happen to allow them to eventually adhere to the main Astra band plan like what was done when the first services from E28A to 2F was first done in the 11.45-11.7 GHz and the 12.5-12.75GHz bands. There does appear to be frequency space available at present at 28E to do this juggling around of services.

Once it is complete, I'm thinking of just adding another offset LNB on my 80cm dish aimed at Hot Bird for 28 East if the signal levels are in the end strong enough across the board, with the Zone 2 dish maybe reused for more eastern satellites (Turksat?) Otherwise I might dig out the spare Zone 1 dish instead of the offset LNB.

 

[william-1]

Eutelsat 28A transfer of transponders to Astra satellite @ 28.2 east +TM + 88cm dish
C3 & C4 have moved to 2F on 1st of June

Readings for 31st May
Eutelsat 28A @ 28.5 east
11307 H 27500 2/3 = 10.8dB
11307 V 27500 2/3 = 11.2dB
11343 V 27500 2/3 = 12.1dB
11344 H 27500 2/3 = 11.5dB

Astra 2F UK beam after the transfer June 1st 2015
11307 V 27500 2/3 = 17.2dB
11307 H 27500 2/3 = 17.1dB
11343 V 27500 2/3 = 17.1dB
11344 H 27500 2/3 = 16.8dB

Next transfer of will be on the 19th June C1 & C2 Transponders to Astra 2G
Current E28A beam - Quality readings
11222 H 27500 2/3 = 10.1dB
11224 V 27500 2/3 = 9.3dB
11260 V 27500 2/3 = 10.2dB
11261 H 27500 2/3 = 9.5dB

Next transfer will be on the 29th June the C5 & C6 Transponders to Astra 2E
Current E28A beam - Quality readings
11389 H 27500 2/3 = 10.2dB
11390 V 27500 2/3 = 8.1dB
11426 V 27500 2/3 = 8.8dB
11428 H 27500 2/3 = 8.3dB

The following E28A transponders will be shared between Astra 2E,2F & 2G
11585 H 22000 5/6 = 12.5dB D7 S
11604 V 29500 3/4 = 12.1 dB D8 S
11662 H 27500 2/3 = 11.5dB D11 S
11681 V 27500 2/3 = 12.3dB D 12S

Eutelsat 28A will then move to a new location by the middle of July
Eventually all transponders will revert to the Astra transponder plan in use @ 19.2 east.

 

[Fisty McB]

Eventually all transponders will revert to the Astra transponder plan in use @ 19.2 east.

Is this confirmed?
If so, I'd presume the configuration of transmissions will go from SR 27500 FEC 2/3 to SR 22000 FEC 5/6 as both values give a net bit rate of 33.79 Mbit/s. They could then change the FEC from 5/6 to 7/8, but the net bit rate would then increase only to 35.479 Mbit/s, a 1.689 Mbit/s increase - maybe enough to fit one extra channel in.

 

[dvdfilm]

What sky channels are being affected by these moves to spot beams?

 

[M60]

I really don't buy that ex-pat theory. SES want some wide beams so they can use their birds at other slots for complete backup of their fleet. If anything they've compromised and centredy the 2F and 2E Europe beams more at the UK for UK & Ireland's benefit with the possibility of using these beams for Europe wide if needed in an emergency or after the satellites have finished their service at 28E. If 2F/2E/2G only had spot beams they'd be next to useless if needed at 19E for example. I think the fact that the 2G Europe beam isn't even centred on the UK says a lot.

I fully agree that fleet flexibility has to be one of the main reasons for the addition of the European antenna inclusion but my main thinking was that it's also in Sky's interest to keep it in use for their transponders as expat subs contribute to their revenue. The fact 2G has the biggest and non-focused PE footprint would suggest that in the event of a satellite being needed elsewhere then 2G might be what is first choice for relinquishing.

 

[william-1]

What sky channels are being affected by these moves to spot beams?

Encrypted channels will probably go on the European beams like the majority of Sky channels are already http://www.flysat.com/skyuk.php

 

[timo_w2s]

I fully agree that fleet flexibility has to be one of the main reasons for the addition of the European antenna inclusion but my main thinking was that it's also in Sky's interest to keep it in use for their transponders as expat subs contribute to their revenue. The fact 2G has the biggest and non-focused PE footprint would suggest that in the event of a satellite being needed elsewhere then 2G might be what is first choice for relinquishing.

Well can I say for the record that Sky/SES are doing a crap job at trying to keep my subs going in Finland. ;) Once 28A leaves I think I will have lost all Sky channels.

I agree that 2G will be the first choice for SES if needed elsewhere, just like 2C was also shifted around depending on where she was needed. They also both share some similarities in band plans, footprints, launch sequences, etc. But while only Channel 5 used 2C seriously for any length of time at 28E I suspect 2G with the addition of a UK spot beam will have a bigger role to play at 28E.

 

[timo_w2s]

What sky channels are being affected by these moves to spot beams?

Some of the pay channels that have gone to a 2F UK spot yesterday are Universal, SyFy, LFC, Movies 24, E! and SET UK (all in SD).

 

[william-1]

The European beam on Astra 2G below covers Southern Finland better than 2E & 2F European beams so they may use this for Sky subscribers?