Astra 2E: Western Europe Reports

[stephenG]

Hope you have some luck tomorrow
I suppose you are in a better position than me as far as if you are getting a signal on a 1 metre dish then think of the difference you would maybe get on a 1.1m or 1.2m which are quite cheap in relation to a dish i would need. I'm trying to find a cheap second hand 1.5m as at the moment my budget won't stretch to a new one..I'm surprised that there arn't any listed in the classifieds in Spain..There must be a few people at least further south than me that had a 1.5 that can't receive anything anymore

True. But then I might also need a 140ish dish. Problem I will have is that I need planning permission for anything bigger than 1m (even the 110x120). You might get a big dish cheaper in France than in Spain (lots of people trying to get Nilsat etc..

 

[stephenG]

True. But then I might also need a 140ish dish. Problem I will have is that I need planning permission for anything bigger than 1m (even the 110x120). You might get a big dish cheaper in France than in Spain (lots of people trying to get Nilsat etc..

Hi Again RichardinSpain, I don't know whereabouts you are in Spain but if you're near the Pyrennes this might interest you if you don't mind a drive. http://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/648134123.htm?ca=21_s It would certainly solve your marginal reception problem.

 

[wards287]

True. But then I might also need a 140ish dish. Problem I will have is that I need planning permission for anything bigger than 1m (even the 110x120). You might get a big dish cheaper in France than in Spain (lots of people trying to get Nilsat etc..

Hi StephenG, I live at 83490 in the Var and my previous dish was the same size as yours. I now have a 1.3M dish and have all UK TV channels OK this evening but many HD are borderline reception. The signal at the moment is about as low as it has been over the last few months with this dish and I think it really is the minimum size for down here having already installed four in this area for friends.
This my dish which I have mounted near to the ground to avoid the mistral and may be an option even with a long cable run.
http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?ref=AC130W&type=30&code_lg=lg_fr&num=21.

 

[hexah]

On the roof on a concrete chimney.

Do you think it makes a difference ?

It should have a nice clear view of the satellite up there. The chimney could be the weak point, up here only tiny dishes get put on chimneys. I know that in France with the massive chimneys they have they seem to get away with it.

Putting anything bigger than what you have there is going to be a bad idea because the mass of the bricks won't put up with the windloading on the dish.

Look at what happens if it goes wrong

Bad practice & Nightmare installations

post #88 when (not if) it gets broken in a forum update

If you have a flat roof a non penetrating mount becomes a possibility.

Wall mounting is also possible though it may not look elegant to non dish lovers. Remember you can spray the dish with non metallic paint like Plastikote to blend it in.

Sadly my garden, big as it is, is such that there is no way to have a ground fixed dish without being a long way from the house.

That is not really a problem these days as the output from modern LNBs is high, as long as you have a good signal coming in it should be o.k. It does suggest a 1.5m to 1.8m dish though.

Cheap inline amps are also available.

The important thing is not to lay the cable on the ground as water will work in by capillary action very quickly.

 

[hexah]

Hi StephenG, I live at 83490 in the Var and my previous dish was the same size as yours. I now have a 1.3M dish and have all UK TV channels OK this evening but many HD are borderline reception. The signal at the moment is about as low as it has been over the last few months with this dish and I think it really is the minimum size for down here having already installed four in this area for friends.
This my dish which I have mounted near to the ground to avoid the mistral and may be an option even with a long cable run.
http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?ref=AC130W&type=30&code_lg=lg_fr&num=21.

That is not a good sign because iirc it was only late last year when I suggested to someone in the SE to go for a dish of at least 1.2m (120x130cm) to get some margin over the 1m everyone else was using.

If HD is borderline it does now suggest 1.5m is a realistic minimum as you need some margin but if there is an FEC change that margin could be eroded. It's the usual problem, you have to evaluate your spending now vs the risk of further change in future.

It's a bit galling knowing that 19e will be bombing in.

 

[stephenG]

It should have a nice clear view of the satellite up there. The chimney could be the weak point, up here only tiny dishes get put on chimneys. I know that in France with the massive chimneys they have they seem to get away with it.

Putting anything bigger than what you have there is going to be a bad idea because the mass of the bricks won't put up with the windloading on the dish.

Look at what happens if it goes wrong

Bad practice & Nightmare installations

post #88 when (not if) it gets broken in a forum update

If you have a flat roof a non penetrating mount becomes a possibility.

Wall mounting is also possible though it may not look elegant to non dish lovers. Remember you can spray the dish with non metallic paint like Plastikote to blend it in.




That is not really a problem these days as the output from modern LNBs is high, as long as you have a good signal coming in it should be o.k. It does suggest a 1.5m to 1.8m dish though.

Cheap inline amps are also available.

The important thing is not to lay the cable on the ground as water will work in by capillary action very quickly.

Houses are not made of bricks in the south of France. My chimney is made of concrete and is about 5ft by 3ft. Nothing like the fragile victorian built brick chimneys in the photos that you refer to.

Bigger issue is that for a dish larger than 1m planning permission is needed in France.

There is no where in my garden that gets anywhere near good enough line of sight except the house itself, or in the middle of the driveway. This is a quirk of the land and the surrounding trees (the area where I live was originally forest with huge pine trees of 80ft and many stil exist ..)

 

[stephenG]

Hi StephenG, I live at 83490 in the Var and my previous dish was the same size as yours. I now have a 1.3M dish and have all UK TV channels OK this evening but many HD are borderline reception. The signal at the moment is about as low as it has been over the last few months with this dish and I think it really is the minimum size for down here having already installed four in this area for friends.
This my dish which I have mounted near to the ground to avoid the mistral and may be an option even with a long cable run.
http://www.2galli.fr/boutique/fiche_produit.cfm?ref=AC130W&type=30&code_lg=lg_fr&num=21.

Hi wards287,
I had a look at that dish and also the larger 140cm one they sell.
Looking on a map you are slightly nearer to the beam footprint than me. I can live without HD so this would suggest at least 1,4m is what I would need.
Out of curiosity when did you loose signal on your pervious 1,1m dish ?.

 

[wards287]

Hi wards287,
I had a look at that dish and also the larger 140cm one they sell.
Looking on a map you are slightly nearer to the beam footprint than me. I can live without HD so this would suggest at least 1,4m is what I would need.
Out of curiosity when did you loose signal on your pervious 1,1m dish ?.

Hi Stephen, last year during the summer I too lost everything on Astra2F so knew that once Astra2E came alive this year it was only a matter of time. My previous dish was fine when the Astra2E/F signal was at its strongest which is every couple of weeks. Today signal strength is still very low so I think you will have to wait until the signal rises again before you get reception. What many friends here are doing that cannot install a larger dish is trying Filmon via the internet or Chromecast to cover the days they don't have reception.

 

[sonnetpete]

It must be frustrating for both of you to have to think of increasing your dish size or finding alternates to satellite reception. Here, using the TD88 dish which is part of my multisat setup I checked this morning and as I surmised, both BBC1HD and the local BBC1 SD versions were showing 99% quality. However, popping a thin damp cloth over the LNB reduced the signal sufficiently to make a comparison. BBC1 regional SD was 71%Q and BBC1HD 62%Q. So the HD versions are probably just below lock for you.

Obviously buying a larger dish is a surefire way of getting round this, however personally I'd be inclined to experiment with other LNB's, especially the Inverto Black Ultra to see if there was an improvement.

 

[stephenG]

It must be frustrating for both of you to have to think of increasing your dish size or finding alternates to satellite reception. Here, using the TD88 dish which is part of my multisat setup I checked this morning and as I surmised, both BBC1HD and the local BBC1 SD versions were showing 99% quality. However, popping a thin damp cloth over the LNB reduced the signal sufficiently to make a comparison. BBC1 regional SD was 71%Q and BBC1HD 62%Q. So the HD versions are probably just below lock for you.

Obviously buying a larger dish is a surefire way of getting round this, however personally I'd be inclined to experiment with other LNB's, especially the Inverto Black Ultra to see if there was an improvement.

Hi Sonnetpete, You talk about it dropping in % Quality of the signal, but what about % Signal strength what does that show ?. Down here I get zip signal. Wards287 who is a few km nearer to the beam than me seems to be just getting a signal with a 10cm larger dish (120x130cm). If (?) I am too invest more cash (into this cow) then I am more inclined to get a 130x140cm dish for the 60€ more then another LNB, although in reality it might need both.

On a different note I see in your signature that you have a Satplus SH998 meter do you find this more sensitive than your receiver, does it show weaker signals ?. Maybe this would help me (certainly more practical than fiddling with a receiver + small screen & remote on the roof) but then more cash into the cow.....

 

[hexah]

Yes, the Black Ultra is the best LNB available for this purpose and may buy enough breathing space. You can get them on amazon.fr search for Inverto IDLB-SINL 40 Ultra and Inverto IDLB-QUDL 40 Quad.

I suggest painting them white to keep the intense summer sun off, the electronics in the LNB perform better when it is cold, the clear skies and cold frosty nights of winter give the best conditions for dx.

 

[hexah]

Looks like we were typing at the same time.

Down here I get zip signal. Wards287 who is a few km nearer to the beam than me seems to be just getting a signal with a 10cm larger dish (120x130cm). If (?) I am too invest more cash (into this cow) then I am more inclined to get a 130x140cm dish for the 60€ more then another LNB, although in reality it might need both.

Getting both is the safest option because the Black Ultra is excellent at pulling in the weak signals and giving a stable output.

 

[sonnetpete]

Hi Sonnetpete, You talk about it dropping in % Quality of the signal, but what about % Signal strength what does that show ?. Down here I get zip signal. Wards287 who is a few km nearer to the beam than me seems to be just getting a signal with a 10cm larger dish (120x130cm). If (?) I am too invest more cash (into this cow) then I am more inclined to get a 130x140cm dish for the 60€ more then another LNB, although in reality it might need both.

On a different note I see in your signature that you have a Satplus SH998 meter do you find this more sensitive than your receiver, does it show weaker signals ?. Maybe this would help me (certainly more practical than fiddling with a receiver + small screen & remote on the roof) but then more cash into the cow.....

I very rarely (if ever) take note of the strength readings, it's the quality that's more important. It's entirely possible to have a strength reading above the level for a lock but for the quality reading to be below it.

The Satplus isn't as sensitive as either my VU+ Solo or my Dr.HD (which in turn just edges out the VU+). My particular model isn't suitable for HD transponders either. I do find it more practical than the method you've described, though previously I've used a cheap analogue needle and tone meter. If you did use one it's best to align on one of the weakest lockable transponders that the meter can display. It will show a reading for an unlocked signal, which is useful, rather than a receiver which may only display something on it's setup screen when it achieves a lock. The streaming solutions that have been posted about are fine if your internet speed is up to it. Here in the sticks, I'm getting 1.5mB at best. That would be fine for SD streaming (just) but couldn't support HD unless you were prepared to put up with huge amounts of buffering....

 

[stephenG]

Hi Stephen, last year during the summer I too lost everything on Astra2F so knew that once Astra2E came alive this year it was only a matter of time. My previous dish was fine when the Astra2E/F signal was at its strongest which is every couple of weeks. Today signal strength is still very low so I think you will have to wait until the signal rises again before you get reception. What many friends here are doing that cannot install a larger dish is trying Filmon via the internet or Chromecast to cover the days they don't have reception.

Hi again Wards287 all of this points towards alternative solutions, unless I can find a cheap 150cm dish. My Freesat+ receiver is also a sling-box (which means you can watch programs recorded on the box over the internet) - so maybe I should install it in my dads house. Watching TV on the PC or Mac though doesn't inspire me. So maybe it's better to give up.

Yes, the Black Ultra is the best LNB available for this purpose and may buy enough breathing space. You can get them on amazon.fr search for Inverto IDLB-SINL 40 Ultra and Inverto IDLB-QUDL 40 Quad.

I suggest painting them white to keep the intense summer sun off, the electronics in the LNB perform better when it is cold, the clear skies and cold frosty nights of winter give the best conditions for dx.

OK. For 26€ I'll give it a shot, and let you know.

 

[Steve Steve]

Thats a shame.....I Had a spare Black Ultra Quad here you could have had.........but chucked it in the bin.... just last week...........

Anyway........not to worry........ with the mighty Opticum LNB......all 2E spot beam currently at 90 Q....2F spot beam 80 Q........(Humax Freesat HDR)

 

[timo_w2s]

Thats a shame.....I Had a spare Black Ultra Quad here you could have had .........but chucked it in the bin.... just last week...........

Why chuck it in the bin?! A very useful spare if nothing else.

 

[Steve Steve]

To be honest.....I only got the IBU.....to test...as you guys on here....are always saying how good they are...I got very poor results with it.....losing reception of CH 5,ITV1HD.....at 6pm......

OK.....The IBU has a very high... (Unwanted).....Signal Strength....But Signal Quality was well down on some ...(not all)....channels.......And for some reason... My Panasonic Blu Ray recorder/Freesat Box.....refused to receive any channel... at any time of day ..with IBU...?.....without some signal strength attenuation.....
As it was of no use to me......So In the bin the IBU went ......

I did think about posting my results on here......But thought that would probably.... just start a argument with the Black Ultra fans on here............So decided not to bother.......
Just yesterday....On a 180 Dish....I replaced a Single IBU..with a Opticum Quad.. instantly better results were achieved on CH5........

But as LNB's are really cheap in Germany......The IBU was only 20 Euro.....just for a little test ...its ok...

I'll stick with my 8,50 Euro..... Opticum......

 

[RichardinSpain]

Hi Again RichardinSpain, I don't know whereabouts you are in Spain but if you're near the Pyrennes this might interest you if you don't mind a drive. http://www.leboncoin.fr/image_son/648134123.htm?ca=21_s It would certainly solve your marginal reception problem.

Hi StephenG
Thanks , that looks like a nice dish, and yes you are right that it would sort out all my reception problems

When i realign my dish/fiddle with the lnb i use my mobile phone to do it...I have a linux box connected to the router, my mobile phone connected to wifi..there is a app on android which i use which shows the signal on all tv channels..so you can check one channel then a few others to make sure you have it set to the max..Beats the hell out of taking a tv to the dish or having someone to shout figures at you through a window which i used to have to do

I also have tried a black ultra ( i have 2 of them) which i can say is good but i have had a few problems in the past where it might be more sensitive on some channels and not on others, in the past i have had good signals then all of a sudden not so good, i bought a B.E.S.T lnb last year which seemed to be a bit better on some channels..Recently (since feb) i have been using a black ultra until last week when i started to get lower figures i put the B.E.S.T back on and it gets better reception than the black ultra..People go on about the long neck of the BU but to me i have enough margin on the necks of the other lnbs i have to get max reception

 

[timo_w2s]

To be honest.....I only got the IBU.....to test...as you guys on here....are always saying how good they are...I got very poor results with it.....losing reception of CH 5,ITV1HD.....at 6pm......

OK.....The IBU has a very high... (Unwanted).....Signal Strength....But Signal Quality was well down on some ...(not all)....channels.......And for some reason... My Panasonic Blu Ray recorder/Freesat Box.....refused to receive any channel... at any time of day ..with IBU...?.....without some signal strength attenuation.....
As it was of no use to me......So In the bin the IBU went ......

I had similar problems with my DrHD F15 until I put an attenuator inline to bring down the signal levels then I got better results than my other LNBs but I was on quite a short length of cable. Maybe yours was faulty and the bin was the right place... ;)

 

[Steve Steve]

Yea...maybe faulty.....I even bought 4 Attenuators...to give it a fair chance......Great on BBC 1 and many other Channels.....But just would not hold on to Ch5 & ITVHD in the evening low signal time...... as the Opticum would / does....

Richard .....I Think "Best Germany " LNB's ..are rebadged Opticum LNB's .....Or.... vice versa.....?

The Octo version.... looks Identical apart from the black cable rain cover on the "Best" (White cable rain cover on the Opticum).......