1,2m dish Alicante 50m cable

superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Hi guys,

Do you think 50m cable would cause problems in reception with 1,2 famaval dish un Alicante city?

I heard reception gets worst moving south to Alicante but as I said is for Alicante city.

Will use an ocho lnb (GI)

Thanks
 
st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
I don't think 50m will be a problem unless it's low-quality.
As long as it's at least double shielded (triple better) you should be ok.
Most modern STBs have a good auto-gain to compensate for normal lossess in absolute signal strength.

If exterior, remember to get PE-sheathed cable to protect against the sun.

I'm more concerned about the 1.2m - not much S/N coming through there.
I'll let the esteemed expert members on Iberian reception comment on the size vs location.
 
superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
It is already instaled.

I just get the next frequencies without problem:

10818V BBC channels in SD

10847V BBC channels in HD

10906V ITV1 + ITV3 in SD

10964H Channel 5 in SD

I still have my old 8 years cable but I Will chante it asap.

No está todo get channel 4 on 10714H even in the roof conected to directly yo the dish fliquers.

Mayte not to bad for a 1.2m

What do you think?
 
Terryl

Terryl

Specialist Contributor
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2,318
My Satellite Setup
OpenBox X5 on a 1 meter motorized dish.
And now a 10 foot "C" band dish.

Custom built PC
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50 metres should not be that bad a run of coax, if your going to replace it then use some good high quality RG-6 quad shielded coax with a pure copper centre conductor, this would give you less DC voltage loss out to the LNB.

Or for better results some RG-11 coax would be better.

One thing to look for in the coax spec's is its signal loss at higher frequency's, the good stuff is rated out to 3 GHz, the less dB loss at this frequency the better signal you will have at the receiver.

Most of these ratings is done at 1000 feet lengths, so just divide the loss in dB by 1000 and multiply that by 164 feet (50 metres) some are also rated in metres.
 
superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Thanks guys.

But I think the people who is installing me the set up is not an expert us you so I need to the research for him...

He is using world vision RG6U copper 75ohm

Do you think is OK for fringe reception?

Thanks guys
 
TJExcalibur

TJExcalibur

Sleepy Hollow
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Master Focus 90cm .Gigablue UHD Quad 4K on TM 2600 motor. *Tm 5402 HD M3, *Atemio Nemesis. *Not Used.
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Southern England
Thanks guys.

But I think the people who is installing me the set up is not an expert us you so I need to the research for him...

He is using world vision RG6U copper 75ohm

Do you think is OK for fringe reception?

Thanks guys
I enquired from many sources about coax cable and looking back I remember RG6U copper 75ohm is basic, I would say rubbish. Pay ,more and go for the best.
 
Tururu

Tururu

Assembled with recycled parts
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2,609
My Satellite Setup
90cm motorised dishes(98x90)+fixed+multiLNB+24Unicable.
Currently 55 satellites, 61°West to 57°East.

DB800S-HD VU+DUO2, VU+Ultimo4K, TBS5925, OctagonSX88.
Recycled as the owner.
My Location
North of Madrid (28703 Spain) -3Km of IKEA (40.545847, -3.612012).:-)
Of the subject of signal, no idea by the zone, I think like the companion, is small the antenna.
The companions by that sulene zone to have 140cm, even more for the free channels of the beam UK, better than they nobody.
Everything depends on the quality of the cable, basic RG6U is not worth.
For 50 meters of cable it is necessary to use low loss cable, minimum 28dB every 100 meters.
To use another cable is to remain without signal by the losses, is like a irrigation hose pricked.
The wires of lost losses, also have the alive (central wire) fatter to compensate lost of feeding.
--------
Del tema de señal, ni idea por la zona, pienso como el compañero, es pequeña la antena.
Los compañeros por esa zona sulene tener 140cm, incluso mas para los canales libres del haz UK, mejor que ellos nadie.
Todo depende de la calidad del cable, basico RG6U no vale.
Para 50 metros de cable es necesario usar cable de bajas perdidas, minmo 28dB cada 100 metros.
Usar otro cable es quedarse sin señal por las perdidas, es como una mangera de riego pinchada.
Los cables de bajas perdidas, tambien tienen el vivo (hilo central) mas gordo para compensar perdidas de alimentacion.

Tleves.- 27db/100metros a 2300Mhz
Televes T100 Blanco PVC LSFH Ref. 215101
Televes T100 Plus
Televes T200 Plus Blanco PVC LSFH Ref. 213002

FTE Maximal.-28db/100metros a 2150Mhz
K290 Gold/K290W
K290B (PE negro), supports the Sun, after 20 years as new/soporta el Sol, despues de 20 años como nuevo.

In the fixed antennas I have one with triple shield and alive of 1'33mm, of PVC, no longer they sell it.
En las antenas fijas tengo uno con triple blindaje y vivo de 1'33mm, de PVC, ya no lo venden.

From the Bieffe house, you also have good cables, like CO 12 A, 27'5dB / 100M (the last ones you buy).
De la casa Bieffe, tambien tienes buenos cables, como CO 12 A, 27'5dB/100M (los ultimos que compre).


PS:All LNB are not the same, the difference is not finding anything or hearing everything.
PD:Todos los LNB no son iguales, la diferencia es no encontrar nada o escuchar todo.
 
Huevos

Huevos

Satellite Freak
Messages
5,993
My Satellite Setup
57E to 58W, C-band and Ku, DVB-S2, 4:2:2 and blindscan.
My Location
38.5ºN, 0.5ºW
Alicante, where? House or flat? Why do you need a 50 metre run? 1.2m dish definitely too small for Alicante, but there are still plenty of con men fitting them in an attempt to undercut installers that offer the correct equipment.
 
superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Thanks everyone for your help!

To be honest I was advised for a 1,4m marafa. They took It home but there was no room for It in the top floor (flat).

I ask for 1,2 famaval and the insisted that they do not warranty a right performance. But It was installed.

In the end we left my 8 years old cabling RG6U inside the building and change the one in the open Air which was burned.

We also installed a line amplifier close the dish.

I have a stable reception in BBC SD and HD channels all day, even higher in HD 10847V and 10818V in SD, but I receive all regions in SD

I get also channel 4, all ITV,s but only in SD (10714H,10729V, 10758V, 10906V) .Channel 4 in HD only at night in 11126V.

No possible to receive ITV HD and other HD BBC regions as the one I said.

I am Happy with the performance.

They told me that we were in the mounth with lower signal. Do you think so? And why reception is higher at night? Due to temperature?

And I forgot to say that also have a disecq installed after the line amp. because I have other 2 sats

I manage to work fine with 1.2...for the momento

HD100 BOX and twin lnb Galaxy innovations
 
Huevos

Huevos

Satellite Freak
Messages
5,993
My Satellite Setup
57E to 58W, C-band and Ku, DVB-S2, 4:2:2 and blindscan.
My Location
38.5ºN, 0.5ºW
Let's see a photo of the dish. Bet it is a 1m. Channel 4 HD works easy in Alicante on a 1.2m dish. Same with BBC HD channels and C5. Or it is just fitted with a crap LNB. Who was the installer?
 
superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Let's see a photo of the dish. Bet it is a 1m. Channel 4 HD works easy in Alicante on a 1.2m dish. Same with BBC HD channels and C5. Or it is just fitted with a crap LNB. Who was the installer?
1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg

I get BBC HD channels perfectly on 10847V, but only in this frequency and. All day.

I get channel 5 on 10964H but flickers, only stable early in the morning.

I get channel 4 HD on 11126V but flickers during the day, only stable at night.

I know that I am on the limit...and having at least 70m cable with a "4 input" disecq...sure dont help...

Do you also think that signal will increase in next mounths? Are we in the lowest point?

To be honest dont remember name of the instaler...but nice people!
 
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superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Vertical polarisation works better than Horizontal...at least in my case...little more signal.
 
A

a33

Member
Messages
439
My Satellite Setup
XSAT410
Clarketech HD4100+
My Location
NL
Well, if the dish is 120 cm high, I guess it is about 107 cm wide; and i would call it a 107 size dish. :(
But I heard in Spain the vendors like to speak in hight sizes......

Have you tried disconnecting the amplifier? Sometimes it does more bad than good.

Wenn I google on GI212 twin LNB (why do you have a twin?), I mostly find russian sites.
Personally I would prefer an Inverto Black Ultra LNB, for difficult reception conditions....

As everything is installed already, I guess you don't want to alter your setup much?
Wenn you search the limits like you do, every part of your setup is very important, though....

And yes, lower temperatures can improve the SNR a bit. But I wouldn't expect a huge difference.

Greetz,
A33
 
st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
I know that I am on the limit...and having at least 70m cable with a "4 input" disecq...sure dont help...
Let me start with some congrats on getting a good result. Always good to hear from people with some positive results.

Then - just want to repeat my earlier comment - please note that the 70m of cable is not the biggest challenge.
If reasonably undamaged, and not running close to power lines and faulty microwave ovens, they will just give a lower absolute signal sttength to your receiver.
Not lower quality.
The C/N ratio is what matters - and this is large determined by:

1) dish size - as A33 writes yours is really a 105cm. A true 120 (usually 135cm tall) is 30% bigger surfacewise than a 105, giving more C/N to work with
2) LNB accuracy and feedhorn match to dish - some are much better than others. The Inverto Black Ultra are quite good, so does some Octagons and Maximum seem to be.
3) Antenna alignment. Getting especially 28.2E to line up takes some effort, as the 3 sats are spread out from 28.2 to 28.5. Aligning must be done to point to the best compromise between SD and HD channels on 2E, 2F and 2G.

My point is - going from 3 to 1 - you can fiddle with the alignment to balance reception of 2E, and 2F/G. This is low cost high-effort.
Next up is trying better LNBs. The one you have might be very good for the Astra 2 challenge, or it might not. Only some experimentation will tell. And some dosh to buy a few LNBs. But lower effort, as the dish is already aligned.
Finally, as mentioned by others, get a bigger dish: A Gibertini 125 (which is really a 120), an Andrews/CM/ASC/Raven/Skyware 120 cm (which is really a 120cm), or a current popular dish is the Laminas OFC1200, which is again a 120cm dish. But these are more cost, and needs re-aligning all over again.

So - if you are happy now (and it seems that way) - enjoy UK TV.
If you want more, try replacing LNB with a Black Ultra (don't get confused by similarly named LNBs. Must be an Inverto Black Ultra Single/Dual/Quad.)
Step 2: Call the installer back and have them re-align to favour high FEC 2F/G signals, by compormisisng somewhere between 28.2 and 28.5.
Step 3: Get a bigger dish...
 
Lazarus

Lazarus

Tout Rond Bon Oeuf
Staff member
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25,372
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Step 4. Move further North and West.

Step 5. Learn French!
 
Huevos

Huevos

Satellite Freak
Messages
5,993
My Satellite Setup
57E to 58W, C-band and Ku, DVB-S2, 4:2:2 and blindscan.
My Location
38.5ºN, 0.5ºW
GI LNB works fine. Easily as good as black ultra. Dish is a 105cm. i.e. Famaval LH110.

Also, main problem here is noise from 26E and 30E. Small dishes just can't filter that off.

Signal data for Alicante is here. Signal report, Astra 2, 28E, Band-C and Band-D transponders

Story about July being the worst month of the year doesn't hold water according to my data.
 
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superpascu2

superpascu2

Member
Messages
94
My Satellite Setup
ATLAS HD100 - ASTRA 19,2 + HOTBIRD 13 + 28,2 1.2m famaval
My Location
Alicante
Thaks guys, great forum!

Huevos, do you think this is not a 120 dish? Just to complain to the installer...

But maybe it is what everyone sells in Spain for 1.2m dish...
 
Huevos

Huevos

Satellite Freak
Messages
5,993
My Satellite Setup
57E to 58W, C-band and Ku, DVB-S2, 4:2:2 and blindscan.
My Location
38.5ºN, 0.5ºW
Dish is a Famaval LH110. Physical dimensions 120cm x 110cm. Electro-magnetic aperture is 105cm. I had one of those set up in Alicante city for keeping SNR data. Dish is too small for reliable reception.

The way I see it, if you knowingly agreed to have a dish installed that does not give reliable reception on all required transponders, 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year, you have no grounds to complain.
 
st1

st1

SMC-dish aficionado
Messages
2,806
My Satellite Setup
Mostly SMC dishes pointing at 28.2E
My Location
Nordsjælland, Denmark
Dish is a Famaval LH110. Physical dimensions 120cm x 110cm. Electro-magnetic aperture is 105cm. I had one of those set up in Alicante city for keeping SNR data. Dish is too small for reliable reception.

The way I see it, if you knowingly agreed to have a dish installed that does not give reliable reception on all required transponders, 24 hours a day, 365 days of the year, you have no grounds to complain.
I think we need to clarify one thing: Did OP ask for UK TV reception, or just a big dish pointing at 28.2E?
It's all about KPIs (Key Performance Indicators), you see. If installer promised all of UK TV, then the installation is not good enough.
If installer only promised best-effort, now that a 140 (probably a 130 cm) dish was not suitable, then there's no reason to complain.

Apart from that (and the fact that the 105 is clearly too small according to your experience) - it would still be illuminating to know if installer optimised for 28.5 or compromised at 28.35 or went for 28.2E.
 
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