A very long cable problem!

B

Barso

Member
My Satellite Setup
Technomate 6900 HD combo
My Location
Dublin, Ireland
Hi, just joined (well, joined last year, but never did much). Impressed by the discussions. But now I need help!

I have read a good few threads about long cabling and I am now pretty worried as my cable run is a lot more than the ones I have read about. My run is about 100 metres :eek:.

In Dublin. I have a Technomate 6900 Super Combo, a 80cm motorised dish for Hotbird 13E, Astra 19E and Astra 28. Worked fine, but had to move the dish. Now on roof of a Georgian building, runs down (in conduit) to under ground, through 50 metre pipe which has other cables like fire alarm, cctv and burglar alarm, then into other building.

I think I aligned the dish correctly so that it moves on the right plane for these three satellites.

Got average of 74% signal quality for the three sats when attached TM to the dish directly. At other end of cable, however, only BBC World and other BBC channels are coming through. Also seems that the motorised thing is iffy with this length - sometimes it moves to the desired sat, but most channels are "Bad Signal". Signal loss is pretty bad it seems to me.

OK, have to admit, as I was doing one bit of chasing, the wire kinked so may have got damaged.

It is my problem (!) and I am determined to solve it especially after so many hours of chasing cables. So, some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Pointers & Questions:
1) the cable I have seems pretty good: hard copper core surrounded by solid white plastic then foil sheet then copper interwoven wire then outer plastic cover. I will check the resistance on the wire.
2) 80cm dish. Do you think I should go to 1 metre or even 1.2? Any recommended brands or are they pretty much the same?
3) Amplifiers. I know they amplify everything (signal and its noise) but perhaps I need that. Any suggestions on which type I could try. Also, does amplification kill the motorised control of the dish (not that I have much) from the TM?
4) Do you have advice on LNBs - I guess that I must squeeze out the best from the LNB and the dish if any decent signal is to survive that length of cable....

Thanks, Barso.
 
100Mts of downlead is too long a run. The voltage drop may cause problems as will signal loss [30dB @ 2Ghz for 1mm type].
 
I have a 40m run of cable to my dish and a further 15m to another box, there is a small loss over this length about 4-5% signal to noise ratio. The cable I use is "webro" ct100 or wf100. You mention foil but is it copper foil? As for lnb I have found the inverto black line ultra to be about the best I have tried. I cant realy say about a 100m run though as thats double the run I have. Is there any way you can shorten the run to the most direct route? Perhaps some pro installers here may be able to advise other options like fibre optic cable perhaps? (expensive and may not be suitable)
 
satelliteman said:
100Mts of downlead is too long a run. The voltage drop may cause problems as will signal loss [30dB @ 2Ghz for 1mm type].
Click to expand...

10mm I believe, but yes the length may cause trouble with voltage (and tone) switching on the LNB. However any line amplifiers in the system can cause similar issues.
The larger the cable, the thicker the inner conductor and so the better conductivity. CT233 is however, expensive for a 100m drum - as are the connectors. CT167 or equivalent may work on a 100m run.
 
Barso said:
a 80cm motorised dish for Hotbird 13E, Astra 19E and Astra 28. [...] Got average of 74% signal quality
Click to expand...
Is 74% normal for that box and dish on a strong satellite. Would have thought it should be Q99.
 
Thanks for replies. yes, seems I was too ambitious! All that work for nothing! I am not sure I can shorten the distance: the building where the sat tv will be watched is surrounded by trees so I had to put dish up somewhere else - hence the other building.

To answer some of your questions and matters raised:
I will suss out prices of that LNB.
I will see if I can get some spot nearer the builiding, but the problem is that it is a school and the dish has to be out of the way in case it gets hit by footballs etc.
I wonder if I should forget the motorised bit and try two fixed dishes (and forget the third - sacrifice one satellite as it would be too cluttered) as that way the motorised issue is solved.
Re 74% - there are two readings and I cannot remember what they are. Possibly "Quality" and "Signal" and one was in the 90% range, but the other never got better than 74% (perhaps it is because I am a few degrees further west, being in Dublin)
re cable. The foil is not copper but silvery.

Thanks again. Might go hunting around the site for a new place to pitch a dish...

Barso
 
If your going fixed dish route, then consider fibre and see if you can power locally or maybe it'll be okay to just power the LNb on existing coaxial.
 
Barso said:
Thanks for replies. yes, seems I was too ambitious! All that work for nothing! I am not sure I can shorten the distance: the building where the sat tv will be watched is surrounded by trees so I had to put dish up somewhere else - hence the other building.
Click to expand...

Ah, if the other building has mains power, then why not put the kit in there and run the final signal back to your property. There are remote control systems that work that distance, RF is fine, and there are also AV/HDMI conversion via twisted pair systems available (though from experience they are not as good as the real thing).
 
I know there are lots of options, the best one being the shortest run of good quality cable but I would first use a portable tv and box at the dish and ensure the dish is peaked on the satellite first, as Huevos has suggested 74% quality (the important one) is a bit low for hotbird/astra IMO. Then possibly run a good quality copper foil/copper braid cable loosely to the tv location and check the signal loss between the two cables and the loss over the distance. Cost would be a roll of cable and some time. Then figure out where to go from there.
 
Just to throw an addition option in, if you went 36V motorised, you could still use the fibre.
 
Thanks for replies. Many options! I think I will try the following
1) Go around the new building (i.e. not the Georgian one, but the one with trees near it) and see if there is a spot that works. That way I get short cable run and great sat reception. Happen to have extra dish here at home, so will use that...
2) Failing that, will consider the idea of putting receiver in Georgian building and then sending signal from receiver to the new building. Channelhopper, can you suggest names of control extenders that go that far? I have wired extenders for very local use (TV in assembly area but DVD player and amp locked in other room) but what you are suggesting is a bit more upmarket I think. I imagine these RF remote control extenders have a bit of a delay. Is it noticeable?

By the way, the other reason I had the dish on the Georgian builiding is that I need to put the terrestrial area somewhere there also because the trees are also blocking the signal from the transmitter for Irish stations (RTE1, 2, TV3, TG4) and I have been simply moving the dish and aerial together. Maybe I need to put them in different places.. oh! more work! I think I'll sort out the sat first then sort out the Irish stations...

Thanks again, much appreciated..

Barso.
 
Barso said:
Thanks for replies. Many options! I think I will try the following
1) Go around the new building (i.e. not the Georgian one, but the one with trees near it) and see if there is a spot that works. That way I get short cable run and great sat reception. Happen to have extra dish here at home, so will use that...
2) Failing that, will consider the idea of putting receiver in Georgian building and then sending signal from receiver to the new building. Channelhopper, can you suggest names of control extenders that go that far? I have wired extenders for very local use (TV in assembly area but DVD player and amp locked in other room) but what you are suggesting is a bit more upmarket I think. I imagine these RF remote control extenders have a bit of a delay. Is it noticeable?

By the way, the other reason I had the dish on the Georgian builiding is that I need to put the terrestrial area somewhere there also because the trees are also blocking the signal from the transmitter for Irish stations (RTE1, 2, TV3, TG4) and I have been simply moving the dish and aerial together. Maybe I need to put them in different places.. oh! more work! I think I'll sort out the sat first then sort out the Irish stations...

Thanks again, much appreciated..

Barso.
Click to expand...

If going down this route, an HDMI extender over Cat5e/6 with IR pass would suit giving you SD/HD to your screen, or a single run cat5e balun pair with IR [PRO-6021] _http://www.sciontechnology.net/pro_6000.html#PRO-6021

Just need to run one or two cat5 cables. Distance for the latter can be 350Mts and the HDMI can deliver 1080i upto 100mts on some of the more expensive products.
 
Thanks Satelliteman. Was about to ask about IR pass, but will read website and google a bit so that I get an idea of all this stuff...
 
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