Actuators AGAIN ...

[gibertini]

i know the north east based superstore are expensive but their add states genuine superjack and i do know a well known sat enthusiast bought an 18inch off them and it was what it was supposed to be. i know it boils your p*** when you know your paying over the odds but sometimes its better to pay over the odds and know what your getting

Genuine SuperJack heavy duty 24-inch
actuator. QARL-3624+.

 

[archive10]

I saw picture of a dish with 2 actutors driving the dish, one on each side of the back ring. when one was extending, the 2nd one was retracting.
I think they were wired in reverse!
(It is an idea but how practical? I do not know)

It does require the two actuators to be extremely well made, so they perform equally wrsp speed, torque-up etc.
Possibly also a digital control of the torque etc, much like in cars for traction control.
Not likely in the price brackets we're dealing with here.

I did however, see a similar arrangement on a snow-plough attachment to a tractor the other day, with two actuators fitted one to each side of the plough so it could be swung left and right.
But I assume that that particular arrangement is due to those "actuators" being pneumatic, meaning that they can only extend, not contract. So when one is used, the valve for the other one is open to allow air to escape as the piston is pushed back in.
This is unfortunately not going to work in spindle-driver actuators...

I have not tried this but used a counter-weight instead.
The motor lives longer with less strain on it at the extreme East and West.

Very interesting point.
Maybe a counterweight on heavily loaded dishes such as VS's (sorry VS if yours already is - I can't remember) could extend the lives of the el-cheapo actuators we currently have available?
Sure, it works without it, but maybe it would work much longer if balanced?

 

[Vipersan]

It does require the two actuators to be extremely well made, so they perform equally wrsp speed, torque-up etc.
Possibly also a digital control of the torque etc, much like in cars for traction control.
Not likely in the price brackets we're dealing with here.

I did however, see a similar arrangement on a snow-plough attachment to a tractor the other day, with two actuators fitted one to each side of the plough so it could be swung left and right.
But I assume that that particular arrangement is due to those "actuators" being pneumatic, meaning that they can only extend, not contract. So when one is used, the valve for the other one is open to allow air to escape as the piston is pushed back in.
This is unfortunately not going to work in spindle-driver actuators...

Very interesting point.
Maybe a counterweight on heavily loaded dishes such as VS's (sorry VS if yours already is - I can't remember) could extend the lives of the el-cheapo actuators we currently have available?
Sure, it works without it, but maybe it would work much longer if balanced?

Christina ..my 1.8pf isn't particularly heavy loaded by lnbs ...but is a heavyish dish ..6 petal all Ally not a mesh ...and the mount is substantial
I would have thought a Qarl 3624+ would have been adequate to drive this ..it being the most powerful 24 inch available to me ..
but it didn't last as long as the previous basic Superjack 24
Which is why I suspect it wasn't genuine ..though Red Apple sold it me as such..
I simply dont trust this range any more ...they claim genuine and sell at a premium ..but ARE THEY ?
rgds
VS

 

[BM300]

Another good reason to have a counter-weight installed on the heavey dish.
You save time and money.

Why not use s slightly longer Actuator, so the jack is not driven to it's limit?

 

[Vipersan]

A couple of photos ..Including my current but failing QARL 3624+ still on Christina ..
and the most recent graveyard ...
Sadly I no longer have a photo of the best jack I ever had ..
it was black and had a motor with 2x screws exposed at the motor casing end ..and If memory serves was a Jaeger..
That one lasted for about 7 years ..
Those in the graveyard ..betweeh 12 months and 2 years each ...all have driven the same dish so the loading is the same..
cest la vie

 

[Vipersan]

Another good reason to have a counter-weight installed on the heavey dish.
You save time and money.

Why not use s slightly longer Actuator, so the jack is not driven to it's limit?

Been discussed before buddy ...but cannot fit a longer jack as there is insufficient clearance ...short of knocking down my house ..or at least the kitchen.
lol

 

[Vipersan]

An expensive hobby this ..but have also placed an order for what is hopefully a genuine QARL 3624 from Sat Superstore ..
We shall see how long it lasts in comparison to the last one..
In the picture shown it looks closer to my old Superjack construction and colour wise ..
So maybe this isn't a clone..
???
Fingers crossed..anyway
The other 2 ordered cheap will be tested examined and stored in the loft for emergency use.
..and yes I am a head case..

 

[scopus]

An expensive hobby this ..but have also placed an order for what is hopefully a genuine QARL 3624 from Sat Superstore ..
We shall see how long it lasts in comparison to the last one..
In the picture shown it looks closer to my old Superjack construction and colour wise ..
So maybe this isn't a clone..
???
Fingers crossed..anyway
The other 2 ordered cheap will be tested examined and stored in the loft for emergency use.
..and yes I am a head case..

You'll be OK with that VS, I had one from them about 10 years ago which I use for the inclination on the CM 1.8, before that, to move my Precision 1.8 on a polar mount, they are genuine, or a least they were back then. Given me great service, granted it only lifts the dish up and down now, but I have had no problems with it. They are bloody heavy!

 

[Vipersan]

Well the QARL 3624+ has arrived ..and is totally unlike the one received from Red Apple..
I've had it on once and had to remove it again to re-set the lower limit ..
Winding it out before fitting it is not acceptable with this one as the lower limit is fixed and the activation plastic lever on the wobbly metal worm does not shift as the jack is manually unscrewed..
So ..
Took it off and brought indoors to reset this and running it indoors and guts exposed ..I was singularly unimpressed with the design and construction ...
The main nylon worm that tranfers limit activation and rotates the mag wheel is not straight so wobbles side to side as it rotates ..thus the mag wheel also wobbles eccentricly as does the upper limit switch push rod activator ..
as it wobbles it passes too close imo to a nylon gear at right angles to the wobbly worm ...but does get there but not in a straight line ..
fine adjustment is not possible ..
an all or nothing situation ...
Also ..there is no lower drain hole on this jack ..
Normally found close to the motor end ..so if rain does find its way inside the jack ..how is it going to get out ???
All in all a p1ss poor lump imo for £100..
Will it last longer than the Red Apple one ..?
I have my doubts..
rgds
VS

 

[Trust]

I certainly wish you luck buddy ...but do keep in mind what I said IF you use a conventional positioner to drive it ..at 24v
Roughly 60 seconds is all you get from command issue to target reached ..
any longer and the initial command is deleted by the Vbox firmware ..
best o luck..

@VS wich conventional positioner do you use ?
I never noticed that timer issue with sevaral V-Boxes that I modified .(+ 5 Volt connector)
As You might know in those V-Boxes is a transformer with 2 secundairy coils , one (31 V ac ) to power the motor (after rectifying 39 V dc), the other ± 15 V ac for the 12 and 5 volt dc for the electronic .
At some boxes I also made a switch to select between those to coils to drive the motor .
With such box I made a test at a Fibo 90 motormount .
Starting with the mount at zero and 008. in the display (mark the point behind the 8 , shows the counter passes 000) of the Strong SRT V50 V-box .
Turned it to 50ºW and stored it showing 362. , than to 62ºE showing 654
Turning from 62 E to 50 W at high voltage ( 39 Vdc at the motor) took 44 seconds .
At low voltage ( 17 Vdc at the motor) 104 seconds , no interruption from timer at all .

 

[Vipersan]

The positioner in question was a G box made by/for Alsat ....not a Vbox ..
So this may be very relevant ..
Also ..
The Built in time out may not be activated on your system as even at the lower voltage you can cross the arc in approx 1.5 minutes ...
I cannot achieve such a fast crossing ..as it takes just over a minute to cross half the arc ..
so approx 2.5 to 3 minutes to shift Christina from 58W to 62E ...at 24V
The timeout occurring around 1W to 40E.
rgds
VS
Gone back to full voltage now as this for me was a major issue.

Also worth pointing out that the 15v winding on the transformer is not designed for high current which the motors require ..so imo using this to drive the motor is a bit risky and could fail if the loading is too great.

 

[scopus]

Well the QARL 3624+ has arrived ..and is totally unlike the one received from Red Apple..
I've had it on once and had to remove it again to re-set the lower limit ..
Winding it out before fitting it is not acceptable with this one as the lower limit is fixed and the activation plastic lever on the wobbly metal worm does not shift as the jack is manually unscrewed..
So ..
Took it off and brought indoors to reset this and running it indoors and guts exposed ..I was singularly unimpressed with the design and construction ...
The main nylon worm that tranfers limit activation and rotates the mag wheel is not straight so wobbles side to side as it rotates ..thus the mag wheel also wobbles eccentricly as does the upper limit switch pusk rod activator ..
as it wobbles it passes too close imo to a nylon gear at right angles to the wobbly worm ...but does get there but not in a straight line ..
fine adjustment is not possible ..
an all or nothing situation ...
Also ..there is no lower drain hole on this jack ..
Normally found close to the motor end ..so if rain does find its way inside the jack ..how is it going to get out ???
All in all a p1ss poor lump imo for £100..
Will it last longer than the Red Apple one ..?
I have my doubts..
rgds
VS

Agreed, not the best design with the push rod, and mag wheel.
It is a bugger to get the limits set accurately. But having said mine has given me very good service for the last 10 years or so. Strange yours has no drain hole near the motor, mine has one.

 

[Captain Jack]

Is it a real Super Jack?

 

[Vipersan]

Agreed, not the best design with the push rod, and mag wheel.
It is a bugger to get the limits set accurately. But having said mine has given me very good service for the last 10 years or so. Strange yours has no drain hole near the motor, mine has one.

Yes indeed ..
A bit worrying the missing drain hole isn't it ..
My first thoughts ..prompted also by the poor eccentric worm drive ..is that this is NOT genuine at all ..??
but is sold as such..
here are some more pix ..
Can you spot a drain hole ..
cos I can't ??
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

Is it a real Super Jack?

Tis sold as such and cost enough..but I'm having serious doubts..

 

[Trust]

The positioner in question was a G box made by/for Alsat ....not a Vbox ..
So this may be very relevant ..
Also ..
The Built in time out may not be activated on your system as even at the lower voltage you can cross the arc in approx 1.5 minutes ...
I cannot achieve such a fast crossing ..as it takes just over a minute to cross half the arc ..
so approx 2.5 to 3 minutes to shift Christina from 58W to 62E ...at 24V
The timeout occurring around 1W to 40E.
rgds
VS
Gone back to full voltage now as this for me was a major issue.

Also worth pointing out that the 15v winding on the transformer is not designed for high current which the motors require ..so imo using this to drive the motor is a bit risky and could fail if the loading is too great.

The square tiny Fibo motor takes just a little current , so thats not a problem here .
I can also drive it without the mount and and close 4 of the 6 slots of the optical pulswheel .
In that case it take more time to achieve the stored amount of pulses , will do that test tomorrow .

 

[Vipersan]

I'm seriously tempted to drill a fekkin hole myself ..
This would totally void my warranty of course ...but stop me worrying ..
Scopus ..
Is your jack also a QARL3624+ ?
If so would you measure exactly where the drain hole is ? ..so I can drill a hole without worrying about hitting anything important..
rgds
VS

 

[scopus]

I'm seriously tempted to drill a fekkin hole myself ..
This would totally void my warranty of course ...but stop me worrying ..
Scopus ..
Is your jack also a QARL3624+ ?
If so would you measure exactly where the drain hole is ? ..so I can drill a hole without worying about hitting anything important..
rgds
VS

Mine is the QARL3618. Been out to take some pictures, my drain hole is there. On the end cap, does the cable entry go in at the top like mine?

 

[Vipersan]

Mine is the QARL3618. Been out to take some pictures, my drain hole is there. On the end cap, does the cable entry go in at the top like mine?

Thanks for the pics mate ..
and yes the cable entry is in the same place as yours..
Gutted mine hasn't got one ..
Are we doomed to buy nothing but crap any more ?
This is imo one way to increase turnover ..
leave out the hole and bugger the jack quicker..
Grrrr

 

[scopus]

Mine is the QARL3618. Been out to take some pictures, my drain hole is there. On the end cap, does the cable entry go in at the top like mine?

Infact, although the picture does not show it that well, there are two drain holes on the tubular casing and one drain hole in the gearbox and motor casing casing.