Advice Needed : Most secure and wind resistant garden setup

[kippysat]

Hello All,

I am new to this site, but have come here as a result of a recommendation by an existing member.

From time to time we do installations. Often, simple and straightforward mounting the dish on the
side of a building using various brackets.

Recently we have been asked to install a dish up to a maximum size of 1.1m in a back garden.

There are no fences, posts, or structures to attach brackets to. There are also no existing platforms
to put a small pole into the ground either.

We already know from a site visit that we will have to construct something special or erect some
type of tower and then place the dish high up on the structure/tower. In order to clear
neighbouring obstacles we estimate that the dish will have to sit at least 4m in the air from
ground level.

We cannot build a brick/block/concrete structure 4m/5m/6m high as that is not what is wanted.

So, we thought about putting a scaffold pole or poles in the ground and then linking them to each
other much like a communication tripod tower might look. Then climb up and mount the dish at the
top.

Does anyone know or can comment as to whether this idea would be structurally sound and have
reasonable wind resistance once the dish is attached an acting as a sail?

Does anyone know of any design structures/towers/frames/whatever that might achieve our aim?

Thank you for any and all help, advice and comments.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Just how exposed is the part of the garden where the dish is to be installed and what obstacles mean the dish has to be 4m in the air ?

I have installed a 1.2m prime focus dish slightly higher (15') using 3" steel pipe, with a 1 cubic metre of concrete in the ground.

Similar to this

Dishes on holiday

If those are for remote control by sat, any indication of at which sat(s) they are pointing ?

www.satellites.co.uk

but on a smaller scale.

 

[Mickha]

I used a non penetrating ground stand, for my CM 1.2M, which can be weighted down, using multiple flag stones, I think I used two, in each of the 4 sections, but it all depends what's required, and how high you a pole, you need.
You can also lay a patioo, to bolt into for extra support.

 

[kippysat]

Just how exposed is the part of the garden where the dish is to be installed and what obstacles mean the dish has to be 4m in the air ?

I have installed a 1.2m prime focus dish slightly higher (15') using 3" steel pipe, with a 1 cubic metre of concrete in the ground.

Similar to this

Dishes on holiday

If those are for remote control by sat, any indication of at which sat(s) they are pointing ?

www.satellites.co.uk

but on a smaller scale.

Thank you for replying and commenting. It is appreciated.

So, there are no buildings we can attach brackets to. The sight lines to the satellites are such that the
dish will be pointing over the neighbour's fence and trees.
The neighbour has a 7ft+ high fence including gravel boards and higher ground level to our customer.
The neighbour also has 4 cypress trees running along the fence at approx. 3.5m in height. In addition to
that, the neighbours house is blocking the sight lines for all satellites west of 19.2E. Our customer only
has a chance of picking up signals from satellites east of 23.5E up to 55E.

Our customer wanted us to erect the dish on a pole as close to the fence as possible. We explained
that the sightline to the satellites would be blocked unless the pole goes very high in the air so that
the last 500mm of the pole is above 3.5m.

Our suggestion has been to position the dish as far away from the neighbour's fence as possible, and
thus it would still need to be high in the air. Difficult to visualise and explain, but using rudimentary
geometry, the further away from the obstacles (ie: fence/trees) the dish is, the lower to the ground it
be mounted. We have a maximum of 12m to play with, so not a lot.

We are thinking of some sort of tripod structure embedded in concrete at the ground level and/or
are sort of tripod structure of poles connected together similar to the communication towers we
see all over the country.

Does what I am describing make sense?

 

[Channel Hopper]

Yes, you can secure three (or just two) scaffold poles around a main vertical spa using the usual building site clamps but you will still need to sink them all into concrete. Plut it looks like a meccano build unless you camouflage (paint and planting fast growing bushes within the structure)

A single post often works out much quicker, with the base acting as a table for encouraging creepers to hide your work.

 

[kippysat]

Thank you Channel Hopper.

So using your example would the following seem feasible....?

1. Use 4 poles. ( 1 x 5m pole, and 3 x 3m poles)
2. Erect the 5m pole in a perfect vertical position with 1.0m embedded in concrete, 0.5m in the ground, 0.5m above ground.
3. Erect the 3 x 3m poles in a tripod fashion mirroring an isosceles triangle shape connected to the central 5m pole at the top.
All four poles would be embedded in the concrete 0.5m in the ground.
4. Use my local welder to weld together all four poles at the top point of the isosceles triangle for rigidity and to give the centre
5m pole great strength. That would leave just over 2.0m of the centre 5m pole exposed and unsecured.
5. Mount the dish as high as possible within the 2m unsecured section of the centre 5m pole.

What do you think?

 

[Analoguesat]

How about something like the 3 or 4 sided lattice "monkey ladder posts" that road signs are commonly affixed to these days. Weld a steel pole into the top for the dish to sit on. You can further brace it if required.

 

[Channel Hopper]

If the dish is only 1.1m diameter I think you can reduce the support poles to two (at 90 degrees to each other). That way any changes in the ground levels means no distortion.

Don't weld for the same reason, clamps can always be released and reset if things start moving around.

 

[Satspot]

Before you go any further is your customer requiring this dish to be motorised.

What direction does the rear of the property face. What satellite/satellites is he proposing to receive. What region is the property based in.

I’ve a TD110 with motor mounted on the rear of the house on a section of scaffold pole secured with two galvanised L brackets. It’s been there for the last 15 years needing little or no adjustment. The lower mounting bracket is positioned at 14ft from ground level. This arrangement protects the rear of the dish from the elements as the dish doesn’t project past eave height. It looks no more intrusive than the neighbours Sky dish.

If you can’t get photos of the installation site maybe a quick sketch giving an outline of what you propose along with the relevant geographical positioning may help with a solution. You could of course use satfinder and do a screen grab and post here.

 

[Mickha]

Try using dishpointer.com, type in the customers postcode, then use the map, to locate where the dish will be located. Move the green icon, to where the dish will be sited, then click the show obstacles box, and move the red icon, to where various obstacles might be located, and select a chosen satellite. This should give you a good estimation as to how high the obstacle needs to be, to cause interference, and if you have a clear line of sight, to the satellite.

 

[kippysat]

Before you go any further is your customer requiring this dish to be motorised.

What direction does the rear of the property face. What satellite/satellites is he proposing to receive. What region is the property based in.

I’ve a TD110 with motor mounted on the rear of the house on a section of scaffold pole secured with two galvanised L brackets. It’s been there for the last 15 years needing little or no adjustment. The lower mounting bracket is positioned at 14ft from ground level. This arrangement protects the rear of the dish from the elements as the dish doesn’t project past eave height. It looks no more intrusive than the neighbours Sky dish.

If you can’t get photos of the installation site maybe a quick sketch giving an outline of what you propose along with the relevant geographical positioning may help with a solution. You could of course use satfinder and do a screen grab and post here.

Thank you. Motor not an option.

Structure can only be mounted in the back garden and thus has no buildings to attach to.

All satellites from 60W to 19.2E are blocked by buildings and roofs.

Only unobstructed satellites are from 23.5E to 55E. We propose trying to get 23.5E, 28.2E, 31.5E, and 39.0E.

 

[kippysat]

Try using dishpointer.com, type in the customers postcode, then use the map, to locate where the dish will be located. Move the green icon, to where the dish will be sited, then click the show obstacles box, and move the red icon, to where various obstacles might be located, and select a chosen satellite. This should give you a good estimation as to how high the obstacle needs to be, to cause interference, and if you have a clear line of sight, to the satellite.

Excellent. Thank you.

 

[kippysat]

Try using dishpointer.com, type in the customers postcode, then use the map, to locate where the dish will be located. Move the green icon, to where the dish will be sited, then click the show obstacles box, and move the red icon, to where various obstacles might be located, and select a chosen satellite. This should give you a good estimation as to how high the obstacle needs to be, to cause interference, and if you have a clear line of sight, to the satellite.

Hi Mickha,

The dishpointer application was exactly what we needed. We are now able to see the height at which the beams
from different satellites pass through the air.

We are logging those heights with a certain margin of error as I assume dishpointer thinks the ground level is
perfectly straight at all points. The area and location is undulating and as I posted earlier the neighbouring
house level is slightly higher, so that will need to be factored in.

Anyway, we will make arrangements to go onsite again and take some more measurements. Using Dishpointer
it is possible that the highest point of the neighbours roof may be below the height at which some of the satellite
beams point to along the line where we position the dish.

At any rate, we can now calculate how high we need to be to receive the signals.

Thank you all for your help and advice. I'll be in touch with further updates.

 

[Analoguesat]

Thank you. Motor not an option.

Structure can only be mounted in the back garden and thus has no buildings to attach to.

All satellites from 60W to 19.2E are blocked by buildings and roofs.

Only unobstructed satellites are from 23.5E to 55E. We propose trying to get 23.5E, 28.2E, 31.5E, and 39.0E.

Try for the west beam of 42E as well - thats very strong in the UK - I used to get it on a 60cm Sky dish in the Scottish Borders.

 

[deeptho]

About the neightbours trees: please take into account that they might still grow and then reception might be lost
at some future date.

 

[kippysat]

Try for the west beam of 42E as well - thats very strong in the UK - I used to get it on a 60cm Sky dish in the Scottish Borders.

Thank you guys. This is a great website. I should've joined yonks ago...lol.

Better late than never eh...

 

[Analoguesat]

You might want to try for TurkmenAlem at 52E as well - free Premiership football / Formula 1 / Tennis etc on that one

 

[Satspot]

Thank you. Motor not an option.

Structure can only be mounted in the back garden and thus has no buildings to attach to.

All satellites from 60W to 19.2E are blocked by buildings and roofs.

Only unobstructed satellites are from 23.5E to 55E. We propose trying to get 23.5E, 28.2E, 31.5E, and 39.0E.

Strange going with a 1.1m dish and not motorising it. You’ve still a big easterly sweep open and very little additional work to achieve it. USALS motors practically install themselves and are barely noticeable. Better than messing about with multi LNB holders and a bonus that you can get out as far east and west as your line of sight will allow in one go. Might be worth explaining that to the owner of the dish. Remember measure twice, cut once Nothing worse than having to revisit this again because his mate told him about the joys of motorised dishes a couple of months down the road.

 

[kippysat]

Strange going with a 1.1m dish and not motorising it. You’ve still a big easterly sweep open and very little additional work to achieve it. USALS motors practically install themselves and are barely noticeable. Better than messing about with multi LNB holders and a bonus that you can get out as far east and west as your line of sight will allow in one go. Might be worth explaining that to the owner of the dish. Remember measure twice, cut once Nothing worse than having to revisit this again because his mate told him about the joys of motorised dishes a couple of months down the road.

Not strange really. They have explained their specific requirements and a motor was not the optimal solution for them. That's all.

If they could do more than one dish then one fixed and the other one on a motor would be fine.

They only want one dish though, so we presented the pros and cons of both setups.

 

[kippysat]

You might want to try for TurkmenAlem at 52E as well - free Premiership football / Formula 1 / Tennis etc on that one

Which channels on 52E show Formula One and/or Premiership Football?