Advice required please driving two dishes from one receiver. : )

Spiff

Spiff

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#1
Good evening from Mullion Cove Cornwall : )

At present I have two sat receivers of different makes.

Two Primesat box's

A diseqc 1 aerial switch with up to four outputs.

Two sat dishes, one KU one C band.

I would like to drive both dishes from one receiver by connecting them as below : -

KU LNB coaxial to one Primesat box

C band LNB coaxial to second Primesat box.

Both box's to two of the sockets on a diseqc 1 aerial switch.

The output of the diseqc switch to the sat receiver.

The KU band dish receives about 35 sats

The C band dish is only set up for two sats at the moment.

By setting up the diseqc 1 signal in the Technomate receiver, I can arrange for it to select either of the Primesat box's via the diseqc aerial switch and thus drive the KU or C band dish.

Question is will this work ?

For instants the C band sats at 5 West and 20 East will not see all the pulses from the jack reed switch leading up to that position, as the diseqc switch will have been switched to the other Primesat box for the KU band sats.

The same will occur when switching back to KU band.

Both Primesat box's are connected to their relevant jacks via the motor and sensor feeds required.

God Bless Spiff
 
jeallen01

jeallen01

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#2
@Spiff
FWIW (and, TBH, I don't fully understand your situation!) maybe you could use an (or maybe two in series, back-to-back?) antenna coax relay (mine is a Spaun SAR 12F) between the receivers and the feeds to the steerable dish and DiSEqC switch - that might, with the appropriate switch controllers (my single relay is fed by a separate 12V DC supply, and is controlled by a single-channel RF remote, but dual/quad-channel RF-controlller versions are available) to enable you to switch the feeds to each receiver to control either dish system??
BTW: these antenna relays are specced to have have much lower losses (< 1dB each) than DiSEqC switches.
 
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jeallen01

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#3
PS: I have updated my original post several times.
 
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a33

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#4
Question is will this work ?
I guess your aim is to control both dishes from one receiver?
Yes it will work!
However depending on the order of diseqc 1.0 and 1.2 commands from your receiver, you might need diseqc repeat(s) to be set (so your receiver should support that!).
Also the diseqc switch must switch fast enough for the motor command not to be partially lost during switching time.

Greetz,
A33
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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#5
Hallo Jeallen01,

Thank you for your reply, it is difficult to explain these things.

Basically two drivable dishes one C one KU to except instructions from one receiver.

Alanna my wife said it will work, as each Primesat box or Vbox will have its own instructions, I think she is right.

I use a diseqc 1 switch at the moment with two receivers, the attenuation is not too bad but if I get this system working, I will then look into lower loss switching.

God Bless Spiff
 
Spiff

Spiff

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Location
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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
My Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
#6
I guess your aim is to control both dishes from one receiver?
Yes it will work!
However depending on the order of diseqc 1.0 and 1.2 commands from your receiver, you might need diseqc repeat(s) to be set (so your receiver should support that!).
Also the diseqc switch must switch fast enough for the motor command not to be partially lost during switching time.

Greetz,
A33
I had not thought of the timing problem, I can only try it and see what happens. : )

How do I set diseqc repeat(s), never seen that anywhere in the menu ?

God Bless Spiff
 
jeallen01

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#7
I guess your aim is to control both dishes from one receiver?
Yes it will work!
However depending on the order of diseqc 1.0 and 1.2 commands from your receiver, you might need diseqc repeat(s) to be set (so your receiver should support that!).
Also the diseqc switch must switch fast enough for the motor command not to be partially lost during switching time.

Greetz,
A33
@a33 & @Spiff
TBH, 2x back-to-back relays (2 in to 1 out, followed by 1in to 2 out) would probably require less "fiddling" with DiSEqC commands, but you would also need separate control of each relay - and probably with less signal loss than thru stacked DiSEqC switches.
 
jeallen01

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#8
Hallo Jeallen01,

Thank you for your reply, it is difficult to explain these things.

Basically two drivable dishes one C one KU to except instructions from one receiver.

Alanna my wife said it will work, as each Primesat box or Vbox will have its own instructions, I think she is right.

I use a diseqc 1 switch at the moment with two receivers, the attenuation is not too bad but if I get this system working, I will then look into lower loss switching.

God Bless Spiff
Back-to-back coax antenna relays for the 2 steerable dishes would not seem to require any DiSEqC switches!(??)
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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#9
@a33 & @Spiff
TBH, 2x back-to-back relays (2 in to 1 out, followed by 1in to 2 out) would probably require less "fiddling" with DiSEqC commands, but you would also need separate control of each relay - and probably with less signal loss than thru stacked DiSEqC switches.
As I worked it out I would only require one aerial switch, as there are separate coaxial cables in from each dish.
 
Spiff

Spiff

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Location
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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
My Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
#10
The Switch I intend using and the commands to control it : )
 

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a33

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#11
So, if your receiver doesn't mention "sequence repeat" for diseqc commands, I believe protokol demands that diseqc commands are sent twice;
but I am not at all sure of that, and not all manufacturers do follow the diseqc protokol punctually.

I'm also not sure what the standard order would be: first diseqc 1.2 and then 1.1 +1.0; or the other way round.
I've asked once on a forum at people owning a "diseqc reader" to test this, but no-one did test or answer my question.

If your receiver would pose a problem in this order matter, the consequence would be (I think), that you would always have to make a two-step switching procedure: first step select a programm as to switch to the other LNB, second step select a programm for the wanted motor position; if you can follow my reasoning here.

But maybe the standard order is 1.1 +1.0, and then 1.2, and there is no problem whatsoever.....

greetz,
A33
 
jeallen01

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#12
As I worked it out I would only require one aerial switch, as there are separate coaxial cables in from each dish.
But you have 2 Rx, thus you would need a 2nd coax relay after the one which switches between the 2 dishes to then switch between the Rx.
PS: "choices, choices!" - stacked DiSeQC switches V stacked back-to-back coax relays? That's your choice :)
 
Spiff

Spiff

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Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
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Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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#13
But you have 2 Rx, thus you would need a 2nd coax relay after the one which switches between the 2 dishes to then switch between the Rx.
I will not be using the second RX, the idea is to just use the Technomate as I do not get on well with the menu in the Ariva.

I originally purchased the Ariva for 4k.

Eventually I will replace the Tecchnomate with a 4k unit that has a menu to my liking : )

Trying to remember how to navigate on two different receivers I find hard.
 
scopus

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#14
So, if your receiver doesn't mention "sequence repeat" for diseqc commands, I believe protokol demands that diseqc commands are sent twice;
but I am not at all sure of that, and not all manufacturers do follow the diseqc protokol punctually.

I'm also not sure what the standard order would be: first diseqc 1.2 and then 1.1 +1.0; or the other way round.
I've asked once on a forum at people owning a "diseqc reader" to test this, but no-one did test or answer my question.

If your receiver would pose a problem in this order matter, the consequence would be (I think), that you would always have to make a two-step switching procedure: first step select a programm as to switch to the other LNB, second step select a programm for the wanted motor position; if you can follow my reasoning here.

But maybe the standard order is 1.1 +1.0, and then 1.2, and there is no problem whatsoever.....

greetz,
A33
From what I remember when I had my LNB changer on my CM1.8 and V box to drive the dish (Diesqc 1.0 operated the changer motor and Diseqc 1.2 the V box) he Diesqc 1.2 command was sent first.

I was using a TM 5402MK3 box. This was the only box that handled the mutiple commands correctly out of all the boxes I tested.
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
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#15
From what I remember when I had my LNB changer on my CM1.8 and V box to drive the dish (Diesqc 1.0 operated the changer motor and Diseqc 1.2 the V box) he Diesqc 1.2 command was sent first.

I was using a TM 5402MK3 box. This was the only box that handled the mutiple commands correctly out of all the boxes I tested.
Thank you all for your advice, I shall get it wired and see if the timing is a problem.

I will report back : )

God Bless Spiff
 
jeallen01

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#16
I will not be using the second RX, the idea is to just use the Technomate as I do not get on well with the menu in the Ariva.

I originally purchased the Ariva for 4k.

Eventually I will replace the Tecchnomate with a 4k unit that has a menu to my liking : )

Trying to remember how to navigate on two different receivers I find hard.
Good idea for a new 4K Rx - OTOH, the TM is a decent Rx (I have 2 of them), and thus (it seems to me) that some form of simple "switch" between the 2 steerable dishes is probably the best solution.
 
scopus

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#18
Just curious: how did you operate the changer motor on diseqc 1.0 commands?

Greetz,
A33
I used one of those STABDiseqc 1.0 -1.2 converters
 
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a33

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#19
Ah yes, I've seen them on the internet. Good solution! :)
 
Spiff

Spiff

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Messages
318
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Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
My Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
#20
An update : ).

The switching works, to start with positional settings on KU band were some times driving the C band dish as well.

The switch is four position, I was using positions one & two.

Swapping the C band to position four cured that problem, I assume the signal was getting across inside the switch somehow.

Just the odd problem now with the dish not driving to a KU band position.

Drive it to a different sat, then it will go to the errant one.

Perhaps a better quality switch would help.

Had some problems with coaxial angle connecters.

They either fell apart or made poor contact.

I think the poor contact was caused because the sockets that they were plugged into, had had heavy coaxial plugged into them before.

This had opened up the inner of the socket.

Any recommendations for quality angle connecters and diseqc 1 switches would be appreciated : )

God Bless Spiff XXX
 
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