Advice required please driving two dishes from one receiver. : )

Spiff

Spiff

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Therefore I think that using DiSEqC switches for what you want to do is "over-complicating" what should be a simple switch-over task - an antenna relay between the Rx and the 2x Primesat boxes
How is an antenna relay controled ?

I have never used one and had assumed that the water proofed DiSEqC switches were antenna switches. : )

God Bless Spiff
 
jeallen01

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How is an antenna relay controled ?

I have never used one and had assumed that the water proofed DiSEqC switches were antenna switches. : )

God Bless Spiff
The (quite old!) Spaun SAR 12/F antenna relay that I'm using is, I think, just a solenoid controlled (I think I can hear the solenoid working when I activate it) mechanical coaxial-switch which is activated via an externally switched cable from a 12V dc supply - and that external supply switching is provided by the RF R/C switch from a 230Vac/12Vdc "power brick" (which, in my case, is an 8A one which also supplies a number of other units in the lounge AV stack).

This one is not water-proof by any stretch of the imagination, and so is for indoor use only - as I assume are the Primesat boxes.

OTOH, most (all?) DiSEqc switches incorporate electronic diode (etc.) switching and are generally waterproof and so OK for outdoor use.
 
Spiff

Spiff

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339
Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
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The (quite old!) Spaun SAR 12/F antenna relay that I'm using is, I think, just a solenoid controlled (I think I can hear the solenoid working when I activate it) mechanical coaxial-switch which is activated via an externally switched cable from a 12V dc supply - and that external supply switching is provided by the RF R/C switch from a 230Vac/12Vdc "power brick" (which, in my case, is an 8A one which also supplies a number of other units in the lounge AV stack).

This one is not water-proof by any stretch of the imagination, and so is for indoor use only - as I assume are the Primesat boxes.

OTOH, most (all?) DiSEqc switches incorporate electronic diode (etc.) switching and are generally waterproof and so OK for outdoor use.
Thank you for the explanation, I now understand the difference : )

Going back on the posts above I read that early sat receivers had a 12 volt option to switch an antenna switch, but not current receivers.

So it is not possible to use that type of switch now without a manual switch to turn on the 12 volt supply.

I have resorted to a manual switch at the moment, it just has two buttons on it. : )

God Bless Spiff



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jeallen01

jeallen01

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@Spiff
That manual switch is a cheap "clunker" (I have one like that!) , and that's why I use the (relatively!) precision Spaun because it's a decent piece of low loss kit - and then I use the RF R/C-controlled switch in the 12V supply instead of an actual manual switch 'cause the R/C fob is stuck to the SX88+ R/C and so I don't have to move from the sofa to control the Spaun !:)
 
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Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
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Hallo Jeallen01,

It is now 3am how is that for dedication : )

I found another Diseqc switch in the workshop loft, it worked fine so I installed it properly, then it kept driving the C band with the KU.
So have gone back to the clunker for now : )

There does not appear to be any signal loss with it.

A remote 12 volt switch would be better as you say.

It does not make a lot of sense why two Diseqc switches will work, then not work properly, either the motor signal is getting across or the timing is wrong.

Other positions on a four way gave different results ?

I have made an offer on a switch with 25db separation Diseqc switch, we shall see : )

Off to bed God Bless Spiff
 
jeallen01

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@Spiff
BTW: here are some pics of the RF R/C stuck to the rear of the SX88+ R/C (and so you could do something similar with the TM R/C) - and I don't actually have to extend the telescopic antenna to operate the switch at a distance of around 3m.
 

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Ref: the need for a 12Vdc supply for the coax switch, I haven't checked but I would have thought that there is probably a 12V rail somewhere inside the TM - given that the switch needs very little current, I suspect you could tap that off to a small socket on the rear of the box to provide 12V to the switch if you don't already have another source available.
 
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a33

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... it kept driving the C band with the KU.
For cross-diagnostics: did you try to swap C and Ku on the switch? Does that cross the problem too?


NB. A 0/12V switch usually switches on 5 volts too, it seems. So if your switching cable isn't too long, a USB-port would supply enough voltage.

Greetz,
A33
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
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Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
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Triax 1.4m Dish
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@Spiff
Ref: the need for a 12Vdc supply for the coax switch, I haven't checked but I would have thought that there is probably a 12V rail somewhere inside the TM - given that the switch needs very little current, I suspect you could tap that off to a small socket on the rear of the box to provide 12V to the switch if you don't already have another source available.
Thank you for the images a33.

The 12 volts would not be a problem, I have a box of power supplies in the workshop loft, there are some 12 volt ones there.

God Bless Spiff
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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No I did not think to swap the leads over I will try that.

I have always been used to hot swapping aerial leads, having worked in TV servicing, radio telephones and on amateur radios.

I wonder if I damaged both of the Diseqc switches through not bothering to switch the receiver off ?

The thought struck me last night that during the time I was installing both of the Diseqc switches, the receiver came up with LNB fault.

This locks the Tecknomate up and requires ditching the mains.

When using the manual switch, the display on the Primesat Box's comes on or off depending on which band you are selecting.

So as the manual switch is completing the feed from the receiver, is there a voltage from the receiver all the time ?

Thus if I had shorted the coaxial the other side of the Diseqc switch, could this have damaged it ?

I noted that after the Diseqc switchs started playing up again, that as I set the aerial port in the receiver menu, the signal bar at the bottom was going on or off in unison, but not the display on the Primesat box's.

I read earlier in the threads that the Diseqc switches switch the signal and volts separately using different methods, so if that is the case the RF signal part of the switch is working but the voltage side may be damaged ?

God Bless Spiff
 
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A

a33

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Thank you for the images a33.
Thank you for the images @jeallen01 ! :)

No I did not think to swap the leads over I will try that.
....
When using the manual switch, the display on the Primesat Box's comes on or off depending on which band you are selecting.
Comes on and dies, or comes on and stays on?

And, do both displays come/stay on when (with the diseqc switch) Ku also moves when in fact switching to C-dish?


I'm curious what the swapping will give as result. Maybe also try using port 3 and 4?

Greetz,
A33
 
Spiff

Spiff

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339
Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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Good evening A33,

The primesat box's switch on and stay on as long as the manual aerial switch stays in their switch position.

They go off as soon as the manual switch is was switched to the other positing.

The other box then coming on working exactly as they should.

Last night when using the Diseqc switch the C band Primesat box stayed on all the time and started to move the C band dish, even when the Diseqc switch was commanded for a KU sat.

I tried switching the box off on the switch on the box itself also re-booting the receiver.

When the Diseqc switch was switched to C band the KU Primesat box went off.

I have the manual switch wired at the moment, so cannot try a reverse of the leads.

Using the other positions on the Diseqc switch box like 3 & 4 did not solve the problem, but with out connecting it up again I do not remember exactly what the result was.

I have ordered another 4 way switch which should arrive in a couple of days, when it does I will if it gives trouble note exactly what happens with different sockets on the Diseqc box.

A last bit of Christmas shopping tomorrow with Alanna, so an early night tonight.

Thank you again for your help, I will get back as soon as the new Diseqc switch arrives. : )

It is very interesting and gives a better working knowledge of how the different parts of the system work.

God Bless Spiff
 
A

a33

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If it doesn't the other way round, switching from C-dish to Ku-dish (also moving the C-dish in that case), ....
Well, obviously it does, now:
Last night when using the Diseqc switch the C band Primesat box stayed on all the time and started to move the C band dish, even when the Diseqc switch was commanded for a KU sat.
So the swapping test isn't needed anymore: the problem is present both ways, so that test would prove nothing.

I would assume (but am noway sure) that the positioner display would switch/stay on on voltage on the aerial line. So I look forward to the test with the new diseqc switch. :)

I know the Ecoda 0/22kHz switches pass power and 22kHz to both ports, and switch only the RF signal. I am not aware that there could be diseqc switches doing the same.....

A33
 
Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
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Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
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Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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Good evening from a wet and windy Mullion Cove Cornwall.

The new DiSEqC switch arrived today, the label on it says Technomate TM-45, but it looks identical to the faulty one with no brand name.

It has a nice posh box and a plastic cover for outside use, so it has to be better : )

I turned all the power off to the units this time, at the moment it is working perfectly.

Only the display on the Primesat box selected for the relevant dish lights up.

The other two switches worked fine to start with, but not after I had changed the wiring, could be that I shorted the leads ?

Time will tell.

God Bless Spiff
 

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Spiff

Spiff

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339
Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
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22 12 18 Still working fine : )

It looks as if I damaged the other switches by shorting the leads.

God Bless Spiff
 

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a33

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Well, it's a pity for your old switches then, but it is good to know they were the cause. :)

This would mean diseqc command order would probably be diseqc 1.2 command AFTER diseqc 1.0+1.1? Good!

I've never had diseqc switches die on me, though I must confess I often switch cables while the installation is still 'live' (I take extreme care not to touch ground with the cable core, though).
Normally I read that just (the end transistor of) one port of a switch is defect; but in your case it must have been more ports, or some other part of the switch(es). Are you the kind of hobbyist that could open the switch, and do measurements on the defect switches?

Greetz,
A33
 
Spiff

Spiff

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Messages
339
Location
Mullion Cove Cornwall
My Satellite Setup
Technomate TM-5402HD C1+ Super+ Receiver
Primesat VBox
2 x Actuators
Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
Primesat VBox
2 Actuators
Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

Six Computers : )
My Location
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Well, it's a pity for your old switches then, but it is good to know they were the cause. :)

This would mean diseqc command order would probably be diseqc 1.2 command AFTER diseqc 1.0+1.1? Good!

I've never had diseqc switches die on me, though I must confess I often switch cables while the installation is still 'live' (I take extreme care not to touch ground with the cable core, though).
Normally I read that just (the end transistor of) one port of a switch is defect; but in your case it must have been more ports, or some other part of the switch(es). Are you the kind of hobbyist that could open the switch, and do measurements on the defect switches?

Greetz,
A33
Good morning A33 from a wet and misty morning in Mullion Cove.

Thank you for your message.

I am the kind of guy who would normally have taken the switch apart to try a repair before buying another : )

At a quick glance it looked to be a sealed unit, that would require a hacksaw to open it up, plus I thought that it would have a chip inside.

I Damaged two switches, the second one I found in the workshop loft in a box of bits that was given to me by a local gentleman.

It has loose covers, so I shall attack that one first, it will be interesting to see how it is constructed.

I will keep you gentlemen posted.

It was worth damaging the switches to learn a lesson : )

God Bless Spiff
 
A

a33

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For reference: typical diseqc switch schematics are e.g. on this page: Hardware - Juraś-Projects
(there are several schematics there, look for the diseqc switches!)

For opening a splitter or a switch, I usually first drilled a (very) little hole in the corner of the back plate, and went from there.
(see e.g. Hoe een (dichtgesoldeerde) splitter te openen?

I will keep you gentlemen posted.
That will be nice! :)

Greetz,
A33

Edit: BTW I just read that internal rust can also cause inconsistent performance of switches. But your switches were always inside, weren't they?
 
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Spiff

Spiff

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My Satellite Setup
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Precision 1.3m Prime Focus Dish & mount.
Inverto Black Pro C120

ARIVA 4K Combo DVB-S2 DVB-T/T2
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Triax 1.4m Dish
Titanium C1W-PLL C Band

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Good evening gentlemen from a windy Mullion Cove Cornwall.

I took the cover off one of the faulty switches, not the type pictured above, this was an older one with two sockets and two fly leads, it is square and has a lift off cover.

One look at the insides has persuaded me that cutting the top off the other one is not going to gain much : )

So will pass on that one.

The re-placement switch is switching perfectly between the two bands, so if you have the same Technomate receiver as I have, it should be fine.

God Bless Spiff
 
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a33

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One look at the insides has persuaded me that cutting the top off the other one is not going to gain much : )
So will pass on that one.
OK, thanks for keeping us posted!

I've got an old 0/12V switch (or SCART pin-8 switch, it is called, actually) that I discovered is faulty yesterday. I guess I blew it with motor current, in my new setup.
It is made to be opened, has all surface mount components but luckily only at one side of the circuit board, and I already identified the transistor that must be doing the switching. Measuring if that one really is defected, will get on my to-do list....

greetz,
A33
 
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