An Inverto Ka LNB Band B To Band A Mod

Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Here is my effort at converting the Eutelsat KA-Sat Inverto Twin LNBF into a Band A receiving LNB.

It's not a magic solution - these LNBs are designed specifically for receiving the Saorsat FTA services in Ireland. However, it's possible to modify parts of the LNB's circuitry to access some or all of Band A transmissions, for instance ITN's Newsnet feeds and the Italian Unire and Teleippica feeds.

The modification consists of changing the local oscillator frequency to allow the IF output band to display by conversion of the received Band A spectrum any transponders available on whichever satellite has this band's transponders.

The Inverto is designed to receive circularly polarised signals, but I'm concentrating on the linear Ka transponders on Astra 1L, i.e the ITN Newsnet feeds and Teleppica racing feeds. This means there will be a reduction in signals using this LNB for these Vertical and Horizontal transponders, but it's possible to 'peak up' the respective V and H transponders by inserting a piece of dielectric card into the throat of the feedhorn at 45 degrees either side of the central position, depending on whether V or H polarity is required (see pic).

Modification of the LNB -

Tools needed - a diamond-tipped grinding wheel to fit a Dremel drill, for removing a small amount of ceramic from the replacement DRO puck. Don't try and use anything other than diamond-tipped - it'll merely polish the suface of the DRO and blunt your grinder! Having said that, I accidentally chipped a piece off one of the pucks I tried, and found it was resonating at the exact frequency I needed!

A spectrum analyser to display the LNB's oscillator's frequency. This may be able to be seen using Crazyscan; I'll check later to see if this will be possible.

Some pieces of PTFE (Teflon) sheet. Search e-bay for 'PTFE sample sheets', somebody sells three postcard-size pieces 0.25mm, 0.5mm & 1mm for around £3 post free.

The oscillator's DRO puck in the Inverto resonates at 10.6 GHz, and is doubled in frequency to 21.2 GHz for subsequent mixing with the Band B 19.7 to 20.2 GHz received by the LNB. It's using the lower mixing frequency to output an IF band of 1000 - 1500 MHz.

So, for Band A, you change the DRO to a 9.75 GHz puck, readily available from an old Ku LNB many ofus have lying around. Of the two DRO pucks in the Ku LNB (9.75 and 10.6 GHz, you want the one that is a little larger, i.e the 9.75GHz one. This needs to be raised in frequency to about 10.35 GHz by removing a small amount of ceramic from the puck using the Dremel grinder. Trial and error really, a little at a time until you have the correct frequency.

Method of removing the existing DRO puck and replacing with the new one to follow, also how to put the PTFE strips over the filters.

For now, some pics of the LNB circuit mod.

Inverto internals.JPG

Inverto Saorsat Mod.JPG

Inverto Cap.JPG
 
A

Archive-8

Guest
Here is my effort at converting the Eutelsat KA-Sat Inverto Twin LNBF into a Band A receiving LNB.

It's not a magic solution - these LNBs are designed specifically for receiving the Saorsat FTA services in Ireland. However, it's possible to modify parts of the LNB's circuitry to access some or all of Band A transmissions, for instance ITN's Newsnet feeds and the Italian Unire and Teleippica feeds.

The modification consists of changing the local oscillator frequency to allow the IF output band to display by conversion of the received Band A spectrum any transponders available on whichever satellite has this band's transponders.

The Inverto is designed to receive circularly polarised signals, but I'm concentrating on the linear Ka transponders on Astra 1L, i.e the ITN Newsnet feeds and Teleppica racing feeds. This means there will be a reduction in signals using this LNB for these Vertical and Horizontal transponders, but it's possible to 'peak up' the respective V and H transponders by inserting a piece of dielectric card into the throat of the feedhorn at 45 degrees either side of the central position, depending on whether V or H polarity is required (see pic).

Modification of the LNB -

Tools needed - a diamond-tipped grinding wheel to fit a Dremel drill, for removing a small amount of ceramic from the replacement DRO puck. Don't try and use anything other than diamond-tipped - it'll merely polish the suface of the DRO and blunt your grinder! Having said that, I accidentally chipped a piece off one of the pucks I tried, and found it was resonating at the exact frequency I needed!

A spectrum analyser to display the LNB's oscillator's frequency. This may be able to be seen using Crazyscan; I'll check later to see if this will be possible.

Some pieces of PTFE (Teflon) sheet. Search e-bay for 'PTFE sample sheets', somebody sells three postcard-size pieces 0.25mm, 0.5mm & 1mm for around £3 post free.

The oscillator's DRO puck in the Inverto resonates at 10.6 GHz, and is doubled in frequency to 21.2 GHz for subsequent mixing with the Band B 19.7 to 20.2 GHz received by the LNB. It's using the lower mixing frequency to output an IF band of 1000 - 1500 MHz.

So, for Band A, you change the DRO to a 9.75 GHz puck, readily available from an old Ku LNB many ofus have lying around. Of the two DRO pucks in the Ku LNB (9.75 and 10.6 GHz, you want the one that is a little larger, i.e the 9.75GHz one. This needs to be raised in frequency to about 10.35 GHz by removing a small amount of ceramic from the puck using the Dremel grinder. Trial and error really, a little at a time until you have the correct frequency.

Method of removing the existing DRO puck and replacing with the new one to follow, also how to put the PTFE strips over the filters.

For now, some pics of the LNB circuit mod.

View attachment 118282

View attachment 118283

View attachment 118284
You could sell a few of them

That’s amazing work. I take my hat off to you.:Y
 
dreamsat1

dreamsat1

Member
Messages
95
My Satellite Setup
2,20m Kathrein, 3,7m Andrew, KU,KA,C,C-Ext. LNBs
My Location
germany
Hello Llew,
I did that in a similar way. I did not use the Teflon, but I also filled the chambers with dielectric material. I'm looking forward to readings from you.
What kind of oscillator frequency do you have now? I had reached 20325MHz. With the CrazyScan there are some problems to show this around correctly. Let's see if you can find a solution. :Y:Y:Y:Y

best regards dreamsat
 
John

John

Enthusiast.
Messages
2,082
Location
North Nottinghamshire.
My Satellite Setup
Elite 2.2 PF - CM1.8 - CM1.2 - Gibertini 1.25.
Ku - Ka -C & Ext C.
PC cards-TM5402 receivers.
Promax FSM.
My Location
North Nottinghamshire.
Here is my effort at converting the Eutelsat KA-Sat Inverto Twin LNBF into a Band A receiving LNB.

It's not a magic solution - these LNBs are designed specifically for receiving the Saorsat FTA services in Ireland. However, it's possible to modify parts of the LNB's circuitry to access some or all of Band A transmissions, for instance ITN's Newsnet feeds and the Italian Unire and Teleippica feeds.

The modification consists of changing the local oscillator frequency to allow the IF output band to display by conversion of the received Band A spectrum any transponders available on whichever satellite has this band's transponders.

The Inverto is designed to receive circularly polarised signals, but I'm concentrating on the linear Ka transponders on Astra 1L, i.e the ITN Newsnet feeds and Teleppica racing feeds. This means there will be a reduction in signals using this LNB for these Vertical and Horizontal transponders, but it's possible to 'peak up' the respective V and H transponders by inserting a piece of dielectric card into the throat of the feedhorn at 45 degrees either side of the central position, depending on whether V or H polarity is required (see pic).

Modification of the LNB -

Tools needed - a diamond-tipped grinding wheel to fit a Dremel drill, for removing a small amount of ceramic from the replacement DRO puck. Don't try and use anything other than diamond-tipped - it'll merely polish the suface of the DRO and blunt your grinder! Having said that, I accidentally chipped a piece off one of the pucks I tried, and found it was resonating at the exact frequency I needed!

A spectrum analyser to display the LNB's oscillator's frequency. This may be able to be seen using Crazyscan; I'll check later to see if this will be possible.

Some pieces of PTFE (Teflon) sheet. Search e-bay for 'PTFE sample sheets', somebody sells three postcard-size pieces 0.25mm, 0.5mm & 1mm for around £3 post free.

The oscillator's DRO puck in the Inverto resonates at 10.6 GHz, and is doubled in frequency to 21.2 GHz for subsequent mixing with the Band B 19.7 to 20.2 GHz received by the LNB. It's using the lower mixing frequency to output an IF band of 1000 - 1500 MHz.

So, for Band A, you change the DRO to a 9.75 GHz puck, readily available from an old Ku LNB many ofus have lying around. Of the two DRO pucks in the Ku LNB (9.75 and 10.6 GHz, you want the one that is a little larger, i.e the 9.75GHz one. This needs to be raised in frequency to about 10.35 GHz by removing a small amount of ceramic from the puck using the Dremel grinder. Trial and error really, a little at a time until you have the correct frequency.

Method of removing the existing DRO puck and replacing with the new one to follow, also how to put the PTFE strips over the filters.

For now, some pics of the LNB circuit mod.

View attachment 118282

View attachment 118283

View attachment 118284



Nice tutorial Llew, thanks for that.
See what you mean about the shape of the lnb - yours is thinner and longer than the one i have.
As a matter of interest, what is the effect on linear polarity when the dielectric card is at the vertical position but use the lnb 13 / 17volts switching.
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Hello Llew,
I did that in a similar way. I did not use the Teflon, but I also filled the chambers with dielectric material. I'm looking forward to readings from you.
What kind of oscillator frequency do you have now? I had reached 20325MHz. With the CrazyScan there are some problems to show this around correctly. Let's see if you can find a solution. :Y:Y:Y:Y

best regards dreamsat
Thanks for your comments dreamsat. I'll check what LO frequency I have when I post more here, and also see if Crazyscan can be of use. It's good for checking if the LNB LOF is working at all too :)
 
dreamsat1

dreamsat1

Member
Messages
95
My Satellite Setup
2,20m Kathrein, 3,7m Andrew, KU,KA,C,C-Ext. LNBs
My Location
germany
Yes, exactly, the polarity is also to be considered! 13V is horizontal and 18V is vertical. In Linear is also.

regards dreamsat
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
See what you mean about the shape of the lnb - yours is thinner and longer than the one i have.
Yes I found my old one, but it's dead, no good now for experiments, and the design is quite different in some ways re the filters, so I don't know if it lends itself to this mod (although I did convert one for receiving part of Band C).

As a matter of interest, what is the effect on linear polarity when the dielectric card is at the vertical position but use the lnb 13 / 17volts switching.
I'll check that out John when I have it back on the dish.
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
As a matter of interest, what is the effect on linear polarity when the dielectric card is at the vertical position but use the lnb 13 / 17volts switching.
A scan tonight, before it's too dark.

Make of them what you will, I need to find the correct LOF, as the scanned frequencies are awry. Tomorrow, when I take the LNB off the dish.

The Vertical dielectric position shows only the Unire TP locked (on the left). In the middle of the scan, the Newsnet and ACM feed unlocked. The right hand unlocked TP is presumably the old Penthouse TP (?). The spectrum is reversed, remember - I have a Crazyscan version somewhere that is correctly oriented for this Inverto LNB, but can't find it now.

The Left dielectric position again only locks the Unire TP.

The Right dielectric position only locks the Newsnet TP. The feed to the right of the Newsnet TP I assume is a news feed, which would appear on the left with a 'normal' LNB. That's seems to be a weak feed tonight. :wacko:

Dielectric at Centre.PNG

Dielectric at Left.PNG

Dielectric at Right.PNG
 
dreamsat1

dreamsat1

Member
Messages
95
My Satellite Setup
2,20m Kathrein, 3,7m Andrew, KU,KA,C,C-Ext. LNBs
My Location
germany
The spectrum is reversed, remember - I have a Crazyscan version somewhere that is correctly oriented for this Inverto LNB, but can't find it now.
That is exactly the problem! The last version of CrazyScan with which I could solve the problem is the 1.0.1.70. After opening the program, you have to re-enter the LOF every time before scanning. Dan works it. Unfortunately I can not get this version of the CrazyScan running with the TBS 6983 and unfortunately I can only use the TBS 6925. That is not optimal. Maybe you will find another solution.

regards dreamsat
 

Attachments

Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
I found a version last night 1.0.1.88 that has the same problem, does not work with my TBS 6983 or 6922. I have a TBS 6903 on another PC, I will try on that, but I don't have much hope.
 
S

s-band

Specialist Contributor
Messages
796
My Satellite Setup
1.5m IRTE PF, Octagon OSLO external Ref., TBS6983,
Various L, S, C, X & Ka bits. 1.2m S/X/Ku/Ka Prodelin on Az-El
My Location
SE UK
Does this help? Try changing LNBStk in streamreader.ini
TBS 6983 Low and High SRs
I haven't used the modified Ka settings but have varied LNBMid to invert X band sweeps with a 9GHz LO.
(@John, you may need this)
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
I've found a Crazyscan version on one of my pendrives - a modified v1.0.2.118 - that gives the correct spectrum scan for the Inverto, and works with a TBS 6983.
Will try it on the PC with the TBS 6903.
Have to disappear for a bit, will be back soon to try it.
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Well it doesn't work with the TBS 6903, just the TBS 6983, which is in a PC whose LNB cable run is dropping the LNB's gain. Need to swop the two tuners round so that I can use the PC with the swopped tuner, which is much closer to the LNB.

So here's my rubbishy scan with the TBS 6983, showlng the scan the correct way round, and able to input the LNB's LOF (presently 20.318 GHz). (Teleippica feed 18762 GHz)

CS Ver_118.JPG
 
S

s-band

Specialist Contributor
Messages
796
My Satellite Setup
1.5m IRTE PF, Octagon OSLO external Ref., TBS6983,
Various L, S, C, X & Ka bits. 1.2m S/X/Ku/Ka Prodelin on Az-El
My Location
SE UK
@Llew Try these settings using the latest CS & Streamreader selecting Inverto Ka:
streamreader.ini
Code:
;! Change IF range (default 950-2150MHz)
IFStart=250
IFStop=2500
LNBMid=9500
LNBStk=17000
and in crazyscan.ini
Code:
[LNB]
LNBType=10
LOF1=20318
LOF2=0
LOFSW=0


[Range]
Start=18200
Stop=19200
Step=3
Pol=0
No warranty:eek:
 
A

Archive-8

Guest
I have crazyscan version 1.0.2.149 windows 10 + Tbs 6522 + easy blindscan and tbh I wish I never put the card in..........

It’s not playing nicely at all, I am having major issues with it crashing, scans can take an hour and a half + oh and under windows I can only use 2 of the 4 tuners.

You have to use a special tool to change the mode of each tuner.
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
I have crazyscan version 1.0.2.149 windows 10 + Tbs 6522 + easy blindscan and tbh I wish I never put the card in..........

It’s not playing nicely at all, I am having major issues with it crashing, scans can take an hour and a half + oh and under windows I can only use 2 of the 4 tuners.

You have to use a special tool to change the mode of each tuner.
Not too enthusiastic with the card myself, Certainly not with the satellite tuners scanning compared with the TBS 6983, TBH I got it hoping for more DVB-S2X channels becoming available.
I just use the terrestrial tuners now.
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
@Llew Try these settings using the latest CS & Streamreader selecting Inverto Ka:
streamreader.ini
Code:
;! Change IF range (default 950-2150MHz)
IFStart=250
IFStop=2500
LNBMid=9500
LNBStk=17000
and in crazyscan.ini
Code:
[LNB]
LNBType=10
LOF1=20318
LOF2=0
LOFSW=0


[Range]
Start=18200
Stop=19200
Step=3
Pol=0
No warranty:eek:
Yes I changed the IF Range (thanks for your mentioning the IF Start at 250MHz earlier). I'll try the Crazyscan.ini changes too to see if that helps :)
 
Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Continuing the modding.
A thin piece of PTFE sheet was placed over the filters using small pieces of Sellotape over them and stuck to the sides of the circuit board, and also some pieces were placed in the two side chambers of the metal casting (see earlier pic).

With any luck the DRO puck has been 'shaved' of some of its ceramic material to resonate within the frequency band required (you can see how much I removed in pic 2), so it can be attached to the oscillator area on the Inverto's circuit board. The oscillator frequency can be adjusted over several hundred MHz, so there is some latitude if the puck's resonating frequency is some way off the ideal position.

The puck will sit within the little green circle (pic 1), so that its white 'pedestal' underneath the puck proper is adjacent, but not touching, the bipolar/FET oscillator transistor's base/gate (pic 2). Use a tiny piece of double-sided tape attached to the bottom of the white 'pedestal', making sure that there's no area of the tape touching the transistor base/gate or the circuit stubs at the sides of the puck. Fiddly work, but it's not too difficult to do if you have a good magnifying glass or something similar. The ones I've done for this and another for Band C have stayed in place over quite a time, so it can be left as is, but a more permanent fix could be by using a tiny drop of super glue.

Reassembled, it was tested for oscillation by connecting the LNB to the PC and using Crazyscan to check it wasn't flatlining (oscillator not working). Noisy scan (working).

Access to the adjustable DRO screw for setting the correct frequency was made by making a hole in the metal cover over the screw, and also the plastic cover (which can be taped up to seal it later).

Was it worth the bother? Well, the Saorsat LNB is useless where I live, I like playing about with Ka LNBs, and for the price it's one means of entry into Band A reception.

DRO Transistor.JPG

DRO placement.JPG

DRO screw access.JPG
 
dreamsat1

dreamsat1

Member
Messages
95
My Satellite Setup
2,20m Kathrein, 3,7m Andrew, KU,KA,C,C-Ext. LNBs
My Location
germany
The pill has to be cut straight. The goodness and the stable Resonans is otherwise no more.
 

Attachments

Llew

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Messages
14,666
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
I appreciate that dreamsat; wasn't one of my best efforts, but working OK (so far) :oops:
 
Top