Another Logistics nightmare solved :- Hughes KA lnb

[Vipersan]

I spotted a Hughes lower ka band lnb for sale on ebay..
HUGHES LNB. 19.7 TO 20.2 GHz. Part #1500825-0005. Slightly Used
Problem ..
It was in the USA
Nearly £70 to post it here and gawd knows what import duty..on top of the price
Then I had an idea .
My neighbour is currently in Seattle visiting his brother ..and I had his email address as I'm keeping an eye on his house.
Internal postage within the USA was free to the buyer ..so contacted both my neighbour and the vendor ..and explained the logistical nightmare ..
The Vendor ..Keith was very very helpful and agreed to allow me to pay for the lnb in full with the UK postage added ...to be refunded immediately on receipt of my neighbours address in Seattle.
Job done ..it's on its way now ..and hopefully will arrive in time to be taken on holiday with my neighbour ..as he completes his holiday by visiting friends in Jamaica before returning to the UK.
So I'll have to wait a few more weeks but hopefully this well travelled lnb will come home with John ..my neighbour in about a month.
Phew..I do have fun dont I
lol
All that to save £70 plus import duties..

 

[Lazarus]

Nice one, Evan!

 

[Vipersan]

Just received confirmation from Keith..
:-
No problem Evan.
That is what we are here for.
Big difference in shipping cost.
Be good, we are getting your LNB boxed up right now, i will have to create a LABEL outside of EBAY because of the address, but i will
provide you with the tracking number in a couple of min's.
Thanks again.
Keith

 

[Analoguesat]

Great stuff

 

[timo_w2s]

£70 postage? What is it lined with lead or something?! And I thought our postage was expensive...

Good to hear you got anther KA band LNB coming. Keep us updated!!

 

[Vipersan]

£70 postage? What is it lined with lead or something?! And I thought our postage was expensive...

Good to hear you got anther KA band LNB coming. Keep us updated!!

Well ..'tis quite beefy as it has transmit capabilities too ..
Not that it will be used ..
From a 2 way internet system..
And will be stripped down to utilise the receive lnb and feed.

rgds
VS

 

[remlap]

Good luck with the 2nd LNB VS, what's transmitted in this band if you know?

 

[Vipersan]

Good luck with the 2nd LNB VS, what's transmitted in this band if you know?

No idea really buddy ..but I believe there are broadcasts ..possibly from Astra ??
having done some reading ..I think Oncila has logged some bits n pieces ..
I'm just my usual curious self ..
It may be a complete waste of time and money ..we shall see.
What I can be sure of is the Feed can be used with the upper ka band lnb I already have ..and is better shaped (eliptical I believe ) for use with an offset dish.

Here is one typical example ..

but this one is found even lower frequency than the Hughes ..but from other infos I've read ..they can be tweaked ..
I'll try and find the thread again..

 

[timo_w2s]

Well ..'tis quite beefy as it has transmit capabilities too ..
Not that it will be used ..
From a 2 way internet system..
And will be stripped down to utilise the receive lnb and feed.

Ah, OK that makes more sense. I was thinking it was just a small LNB.

 

[Vipersan]

So ..basically ..this Hughes lnb covers the same range as the Saorsat lnb ..but is Linear not circular..
No idea if it is going to find _anything_ useful ..but thats what being a curious DXer is all about ..
So ..Ka is divided like this I think..
18.2 - 19.2
19.2 - 19.7
19.7 - 20.2
20.2 - 20.7
20.7 - 21.2
21.2 - 22.2

No one lnb covers the lot ..
but that's the fun of experiment ..even if a bit expensive.
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

Ok ..
Done some more digging and it appears that earlier versions of Directv lnbs with 4 outputs cover that hard to get 18 ghz part of the spectrum ..but not at all straightforward as the IF output is designed specifically for directv stbs ..
IF output around 250-750MHz
No use at all for conventional receivers..
So an upconvertor is needed ..
..and yes these are made as a lot of Americans want to use their own set top boxes.
The upconvertor is called SUP-2400 B-Band device.
..and no that isn't all

apparently 22khz or band switching isn't enough ..
the 22khz tone has to be active ..but a non standard command is sent by the directv box to switch to lower ka band ..
There apparently is a mod to bypass this and make the lnb permanently active KA wise..
It may just be do-able but a fair bit of work ..getting the lnb , converter ..and then modding.
Anyone have more info on this ..
Perhaps american readers of the forum ..
I believe this was the method first used in Ireland to see preliminary testing of Saorsat with imported lnbs from the US ..before inverto filled that void.
Curiouser and Curiouser ..
rgds
VS
more extracts related to this idea ..
>>The protocol is simple for a DVBS2 STB with the B-Band adapter for all frequencies to fall between 950 and 2150MHz IF:
22KHz Off= KU circular 101w & KA 99w
22KHz On = KU 110/119 & KA 103w
>>>>>

SL3

Parameter

Ku, 101°
Ka, 99° / 103°



Input Frequency

Ku, 101° :
101°: 12.2 ~ 12.7 GHz
Ka, 99°/103°:
Ka-Lo: 18.3 ~ 18.8 GHz
Ka-Hi: 19.7 ~ 20.2 GHz



Output Frequency

Ku, 101° :
101°: 950 ~ 1450 MHz
Ka, 99°/103°:
Ka-Lo: 18.3 ~ 18.8 GHz
Ka-Hi: 19.7 ~ 20.2 GHz



Polarization

RHCP / LHCP

>>>>
US Ka: 18.3GHz – 18.8GHz and 19.7GHz – 20.2GHz
DrTV SL3 (for 99WKa, 101WKu, 103WKa)
13V = Right 18V = Left ---> Use 18V for LHCP
The Ka LNBs convert the downlink signal to a low frequency range of 250 MHz to 750Mhz and a high frequency range of 1650 MHz to 2150 MHZ.

99, 101 and 103 degrees is 3 in 1 LNB, so NO KA on centre LNB as 101 satellite is not KA.

103 and 99 are KA (in the USA)

18V no tone for Ka band 99 WEST(right hole), (Ku band 101 WEST LHCP 101 West is in centre\not used )

18V 22Khz for Ka band 103 WEST (103 West is to the left of hole in centre), Ku band 110/119 WEST LHCP (not fitted)

Ka Lo: 250-750MHz (left or right hole depending on 22Khz tone)
Ku: 950-1450MHz (centre hole)
Ka Hi: 1660-2150MHz (left or right hole depending on 22Khz tone)

The current Ku Band downlink signals are from 12.2 GHz to 12.7. LO is 11.25GHz
13V=RHCP and 18V = LHCP (No use in Ireland)

The new Ka Band downlink frequency is from 18.3GHz – 18.8GHz and 19.7GHz – 20.2GHz
(LO 18.050 approx)

So it will appear 1.66-2.15Ghz which relates to 17.7-20.2Ghz with a voltage of 18V applied

KA Low appears from 250-750Mhz.(18.3GHz – 18.8GHz) To see these you need a B band Converter. I have these. They need to be modified to be switched on all the time. I have done this and I have modified two, and I have more that can be modified if needed. The B band upconverter upconverts this so a normal European receiver will work. Then no tone is needed. The 22Khz tone selects which hole on the LNB (which position in the Sky) is used. This depends on where your LNB is mounted.

18V Selects LHCP, while 13V selects RHCP (This is the opposite to the European LNB )

.........................................................................................

all extra info copied from Satellite guys US forum ..
hope no one has a problem with this.

 

[Vipersan]

Ok ..so maybe I have gone a bit mad ..but having got all the info I figured I needed ..took the plunge.
Ordered 1 x non SMW (important) SL3 triple lnb from the US ..and a pack of 3 upconvertors ..
Total about £35 including postage
I guess I saved that on the Hughes..
All to play for I guess.
I have a link to the upconvertor mod done by a HAM..
Looks straightforward enough.
..and I have more than one in case I mess up..
Of course I'll lose 3db on linear feeds anyhoo..cos the directv lnb is circular.
doh!

More fun to come ..in september-ish I guess.
Mounting the odd batwing triple lnb on the gibby ..is just the start.
lol
Yep ..it's official ...I'm a Headcase.

 

[Lazarus]

Oh, no, VS - You haven't gone mad.









"You always been mad. You've been mad for f*ing years" (With apologies to Mr.Pink for twisting some lyrics!)

 

[remlap]

VS if you do get round to modifying the LNB's could you document your steps here with photos it would be great reading.

Cheers

 

[Vipersan]

VS if you do get round to modifying the LNB's could you document your steps here with photos it would be great reading.

Cheers

But of course mate
No stopping me is there ..
I do love to log progress on any project I take on.
No guarantees on results though buddy.

All in the lap of the Sat gods that one..
lol

 

[Vipersan]

A couple of Pics of the items bought this morning form the US.
If you don't try ..you'll never know.

 

[Archived-1]

Ive got to admire your passion VS good luck with it pal :-), I will be keeping an eye on your progress :-)

 

[Llew]

Good find VS. Your efforts will indeed be closely monitored here.

To take the frequency down below 19.7GHz, you could in theory alter the DRO frequency by adding a chip of ceramic to the DRO 'pill' if you can access the DRO inside the case. Trial and error of course without suitable measuring equipment, and it'll also depend on how sharp the input bandpass filter falls off below 19.7.

If you have an old LNB that you can salvage, you could try glueing different sizes of the the salvaged DRO pill to the Hughes' LNB's DRO until it (hopefully) drops the frequency down to 19.2GHz.

Has been tried with the Invacom Saorsat LNB, but with little success AFAIK, possibly due to the input filter problem.

 

[Vipersan]

Good find VS. Your efforts will indeed be closely monitored here.

To take the frequency down below 19.7GHz, you could in theory alter the DRO frequency by adding a chip of ceramic to the DRO 'pill' if you can access the DRO inside the case. Trial and error of course without suitable measuring equipment, and it'll also depend on how sharp the input bandpass filter falls off below 19.7.

If you have an old LNB that you can salvage, you could try glueing different sizes of the the salvaged DRO pill to the Hughes' LNB's DRO until it (hopefully) drops the frequency down to 19.2GHz.

Has been tried with the Invacom Saorsat LNB, but with little success AFAIK, possibly due to the input filter problem.

I have read somewhere that the invacom isn't suitable for modding due to it having a much narrower bandwidth than other lnbs operating in this range.
I do know some mods were done on the Hughes ..but damned if I can find them again ..but I'll keep searching..
If I find the link I'll certainly post it to this thread.
VS

 

[Archived-1]

I am not sure if this is any use VS, but its all I can find.
http://www.uhf-satcom.com/kaband/