Astra 2D in Sicily?..not yet.... :( but Im not giving up!!!

[ynot62]

Hi Trash,
here are more photos about my dish.
Thanks
Tony

Hi Trash,
here are the photos you requested.
I hope they can help us to sort out the problem I have.
Thanks for your help.
Ciao
Tony

 

[simonskyman]

I'm not sure about that feedhorn design,maybe its no good on low frequencies.And it looks too far up but then that depends on the diameter of thefeed horn bracket.

Is there anything in the distance in the general direction of the dish ,like a tv or phone transmitter on top of a hill/mountain etc?
Next thing is to take a photo of a spectrum analyser reading,high /low/horizontal/vertical.
Apart from 2d not working,do you receive all other channels okay no break up?

 

[dxsat]

From the pictures, it looks as though the skew is completely wrong, you have it set to around 45-50 degrees, it should be around 11 degrees in Palermo 9.5 degrees in Catania. This is enough to explain why you have no Astra 2D. Re-set it to be just away from horizontal, a little bit towards the current position, and see what happens.
A calculator for skew can be found at:
http://www.satlex.de/en/azel_calc-p...38.11,13.36&la=38.11&lo=13.36&country_code=it

 

[dave branson]

From the pictures, it looks as though the skew is completely wrong, you have it set to around 45-50 degrees, it should be around 11 degrees in Palermo 9.5 degrees in Catania. This is enough to explain why you have no Astra 2D. Re-set it to be just away from horizontal, a little bit towards the current position, and see what happens.
A calculator for skew can be found at:
http://www.satlex.de/en/azel_calc-p...38.11,13.36&la=38.11&lo=13.36&country_code=it

I think you will find that the formula is for offset dishes.
I used it on my pf dish and it was way out,my lnb is skewed about 6o deg from horizontal,to the right looking at the dish and it works fine

 

[dxsat]

You're right, I didn't think of that- I'm using an offset dish- what else could be wrong- the feedhorn type?

 

[dave branson]

attached is a picture of my lnb,i do think that the problem Tony has is the feedhorn arrangement

 

[barney]

attached is a picture of my lnb,i do think that the problem Tony has is the feedhorn arrangement

Hi Dave, what is this support? and LNB ?

Thank you
barney

 

[dave branson]

Hi Dave, what is this support? and LNB ?

Thank you
barney

The support is with a clamp, fixed to the the support ring which holds the struts for the dish,as the original IRTE LNB holder was not very good.
The feedhorn is an Invacom adjustable type,and the LNB is an Invacom quad.
I recently ordered a Swedish Microwave LNB and am waiting for delivery from a company in Genova.

 

[ynot62]

Hi Dave,
Can you post your picture again?
It seems that I cant open it.
REgarding the feedhorn, this is the one I received from Patriot. They say it should work.
If I wanted to get your feedhorn and your support where could I find them?
To answer to someone else who asked if I was receiving other channels without problems, We know for sure that my dish is not working properly as we are receiving much less channels that I already do with my Offset dish 1.5 mt.
So we know for sure that my Patriot is not working as it should do.
I already used two more different LNbs without any improvement and I am really thinking to do another try and get a different feedhorn.
About the skew, we did all the tests and the way it set now is the best signal reception on most of Astra 2A and Astra 2B.
Im getting very frustrated and very confused too, everything we try doesnt bring to any conclusion.
Ciao for now
Tony
Here is my email if somebody wish to email me and give more advice : info@timeoutpub.com

The support is with a clamp, fixed to the the support ring which holds the struts for the dish,as the original IRTE LNB holder was not very good.
The feedhorn is an Invacom adjustable type,and the LNB is an Invacom quad.
I recently ordered a Swedish Microwave LNB and am waiting for delivery from a company in Genova.

 

[iceman]

Tony
This one is a very long shot but i cant think of anything else...
Does your feedhorn have a round hole on the flange surface where it bolts on to the LNB?
Some Prime focus dish manufacturers make their feedhorns suitable for single polarity reception...Jonsa does this on the 4.2m dish...Instead of a round hole they come with a rectangular opening designed to allow single polarity..I have to use a round file to enlarge the opening to be able to use universal invacoms...

 

[Likvid]

The Patriot feed you received is the ADL KU-band version, i don't beleive the problem is the feed, ADL have sold many of these feeds around the world.

I beleive your problem is the dish, i think you haven't assmbled it right.

Does the dish surface feels smooth when you put your hand on it?

If it feels like waves, up and down, there is probably some tension in the reflector panels and you need to re-assemble the whole dish from scratch.

Dishes made of petals are generally a nightmare to get right if you don't do it right from the beginning and the sat folks from Rome did say you got like 12dB higher signal when they put the foot in the dish which means the petals aren't smooth.

 

[ynot62]

Likvid,
even if i wanted to re-assemble the dish again.
How would i know that it will be fine?
To me the dish seems quite smooth but who knows?
Im really frustrated now
Ciao for now
Tony

The Patriot feed you received is the ADL KU-band version, i don't beleive the problem is the feed, ADL have sold many of these feeds around the world.

I beleive your problem is the dish, i think you haven't assmbled it right.

Does the dish surface feels smooth when you put your hand on it?

If it feels like waves, up and down, there is probably some tension in the reflector panels and you need to re-assemble the whole dish from scratch.

Dishes made of petals are generally a nightmare to get right if you don't do it right from the beginning and the sat folks from Rome did say you got like 12dB higher signal when they put the foot in the dish which means the petals aren't smooth.

 

[Likvid]

Likvid,
even if i wanted to re-assemble the dish again.
How would i know that it will be fine?
To me the dish seems quite smooth but who knows?
Im really frustrated now
Ciao for now
Tony

Have you had any more conversation with Patriot about the dish?

It's difficult with petalized dishes as there are so many factors to consider, especially your dish which got 16 petals.

I beleive you have to talk to Patriot about this and that you got much higher signal when you put the foot in the dish.

 

[ynot62]

Hi Likvid,
unfortunally I didnt get any answer back from Patriot.
Im waiting now for Old Satellite who promissed me to send over some papers which could help me to reassembly my dish.
Thats all for now unfortunally
Ciao for now
Tony

Have you had any more conversation with Patriot about the dish?

It's difficult with petalized dishes as there are so many factors to consider, especially your dish which got 16 petals.

I beleive you have to talk to Patriot about this and that you got much higher signal when you put the foot in the dish.

 

[ynot62]

Hi Guys,
I am back.
It has been 18 months since I bought my Patriot Az/El 3.8 mts prime focus dish and still the bloody dish is working not better then my other 1.5 mts offset dish.
I have two Invacom LNbs 0.3db C120 , a twin and a quad;
My feedhorns are the ADL - KU 850 and ADL - KU 855 both supplied by Patriot.
My F/D is 157.2 cms as Patriot itself told me.
We checked with two strings if the dish was distorted but it seems ok.
One day we just put a foot on one petal very close to the centre of the dish and the signal on Astra 2D went up quite a lot.
Yesterday I was reading once more the Install Manual of my Dish and I noticed for the first time that on point 8 regarding how to assembly the petals, it says:
Starting at the hub tighten all hardware by working outward 1 circular row at the time.
Actually we never followed this procedure but layed them one at the time screwing them to eachother as we went alone.
Could it be the reason why is not working properly?
Maybe we distorted the petals or the alignment is not proper?
If I retighten the dish again could i solve the problem?
Or should I buy a new LNB ( like Inverto or MTI ) or Feedhorn or both?
What about this new adjustable feedhorn ADF 120 by Invacom, and if I buy it how can I match it to my dish? I wouldnt have the right mounting ring.
Ok thats all for now
Regards
Tony

 

[Likvid]

Hi Guys,
Yesterday I was reading once more the Install Manual of my Dish and I noticed for the first time that on point 8 regarding how to assembly the petals, it says:
Starting at the hub tighten all hardware by working outward 1 circular row at the time.
Actually we never followed this procedure but layed them one at the time screwing them to eachother as we went alone.
Could it be the reason why is not working properly?
Maybe we distorted the petals or the alignment is not proper?
If I retighten the dish again could i solve the problem?
Tony

I figured the dish was distorted, it is very important to follow the instructions when assembling petalized dish as all petals are numbered and should be assembled in the correct order.

I don't know if the dish is permantently distorted now or if it can be fixed.

You have to try and re-assemble it again....

The problem is not feedhorn or LNB, you have the right feed from ADL.

 

[dave branson]

Hi Tony
Are you having any success?

 

[ynot62]

Hi Dave,
nothing yet.
I checked the dish once more but it seems not distorted.
It is getting more and more difficult as I am alone now.
All the technicians I called were not able to do any improvements.
I did a few more try but no improvements.
I am still convinced it is a problem of rightly aligning the dish;
At the moment my dish is working much worse then my smaller 1.2 mt offset dish.
And even about the skew, I really am not able to get the best one for better reception.
If you have any new advice, it will be very welcome.
Ciao for now
Tony

 

[ynot62]

Hi Guys,
I am back.
Winter is almost over here and I am starting again to look for the bloody Astra 2D.
Today I noticed how important is to skew the LNB but when I look for the best reception of the main transborder 11778 V, i noticed that i loose all the channels which are on 28.5°, i.e. Setanta Sports UK and Celtic TV and Setanta Sports 1 and 2.
I did the best reception signal on 12051 V but then I loose the whole Sky package, no signal on EPG at all.
Now my question is, especially to the guys who install dishes in Cyprus:
Can you tell me what is your system to get the best reception on Sky first and then on astra 2D?
Now I know that I have to work on the aligment of the dish, the right F/D and the right skew; but where I start from?
I guess I should start from the right aligment first, then the right F/D and then only at the last doing the skewing.
Do you think I am doing right if I try to get the best signal from the main transborder on 11778 V and then going on with the skewing?
Thans for now
Tony

 

[Zorba]

First i find the satellite with a spectrum analyser,then adjust the skew while looking at the spectrum so you can see either the horizontal or vertical spikes,As you twist the lnb clockwise and anti clockwise you see the separate spikes come and go.When one set go away,then the skew is set.then finely move the dish up and down and left and right so the spikes are at their longest.The same when you slide the lnb closer to and further away from dish(for focal distance).If you do have a spectrum analyser,set it for horizontal (18v) and 22khz off and you should see two groups of spikes.The higher frequency are eurobird (and stronger) and the lower frequency(and much shorter) are the 2D bbc itv spikes.
Then i connect my digital sat meter so that i can input a chosen frequency so that i can maximise it .Over here 12.205v sky news is the strongest so do that first then go for a weakish like 11.778v.Then go for a 2D frequency like 10.774h for bbc.