Astra 2D Sucks!

[BarMoo]

Kinda Rambles ....

As I write, there is either a cosmonaut bolting on some quick-fix transponders, or, there is some clever PR happening. It's almost like 2D currently has more capacity that the whole of 19°E. Can any more broadcaster's squeeze onto Astra 2D? According to the press today it would appear so.

ITV just hired some more, Channel 4 has just hired another two, NTL some more (probably on 23.5°E or 5.2°E).

UK broadcaster's have clearly worked-out that if they don't spend a bucket on NDS encryption - they can hire a multitude of transponder capacity (usually) on 2D and, with the change left over, set-up another bundle of 'channels' and buy a box of chocolates.

I wonder, will Channel Five be the only main broadcaster left on a wide-beam satellite: just because it has a foreign parent?

I would love to say that this exercise is into Island-TV for Island Folk. But, we all know that if you live in France, Germany, Holland, ........ you can receive 2D. So what, really, is the craig I wonder? Either these 'Rights Holder's' know what's going on, or, they are all numb-nuts.

Enough, already - my head is going to explode!)(-red

The Astra website makes no mention of Astra 2D as being part of these new deals. Odd.


Have Fun,

Mark.

 

[BLUEPLATINUM]

Well what I think you are saying is that it is unfortunate that we do not appear to have any rights as EU citizens still living within the EU, to receive broadcasts from our home nation.

There would be an obvious conflict between such a right and the way broadcasting rights for programmes are sold. I think there is an argument that such a right should exist under the principals of the free market.

However, this discussion does not belong here in a technical forum, however you might wish to discuss it at ... http://www.wfmk.org/astra2d/viewforum.php?f=10

 

[rolfw]

No problem with this subject on Satellites.co.uk blueplatinum, but have moved the thread to the 28.2E General section.

 

[BarMoo]

Sorry guys, I actually thought I had posted the topic in the general forum - call me stupid;)

.... there would be an obvious conflict between such a right and the way broadcasting rights for programmes are sold. I think there is an argument that such a right should exist under the principals of the free market.

I guess its something like that.

I am just amazed that SES Global won't ever say that 2D spills (sic) everywhere. The BBC can say what they want and right's holders only have to go to court and win.

And, yes, there is Europe. While most Brits don't give a crap about europe (sic) because they can receive all the channels I usually fume about - I can recall the BBC Radio fiasco. It was only when the bleedin' obvious was pointed out to them (that they were the only broadcaster in europe not to have a radio presence on satellite (beyond the WS) that was free to hear in wider europe) they finally placed back on a wide-beam satellite Radios 2 and 4.

Yet, the UK is still, possibly, the only country in europe that doesn't have a parliamentary channel that is free to see, by anyone, in wider europe via satellite. This could be advatageous though - given that most German friends of mine look at PMQ's in disbelief

But, in the end, it is unfortunate that we do not appear to have any rights as EU citizens still living within the EU to receive broadcasts from some nations.

Have Fun,

Mark.

 

[Analoguesat]

Are you sure all 3 broadcast organisations are claiming space on 2D? I did a quick tally a couiple of days ago, and came to the conclusion that there were 5 Astra 2 transponders free:

2A - 2
2B - 1
2D - 2

ITv will probably have the 2D tp's as they already have space on that one. NTL And C4 will have the other 3.

Which brins in the question where do SES go from here, because by my reckoning, all the 28E tp's are now accounted for? Astra2C isnt due to move for another year or so

 

[BarMoo]

Are you sure all 3 broadcast organisations are claiming space on 2D?

The Guardian claims that Channel 4 will jump across to 2D (with an eye to going FTA later). Astra doesn't speak of 2D at all.

ITv will probably have the 2D tp's as they already have space on that one.

One can imagine so, but, quite frankly, ITV could have done what they have always done; i.e., s-q-u-e-e-e-e-z-e eveything into little or no bandwidth. The theory being that ITV could just squeeze all of their new channels on to the current 'London' transponder: leaving more than enough room for ITV's4 - 18. Its my opinion that they have only hired extra capacity to appease those who happen to watch the 'London' transponder (sic).

Which brins in the question where do SES go from here, because by my reckoning, all the 28E tp's are now accounted for? Astra2C isnt due to move for another year or so

Astra 2C, the infamous 2C, LOL! Um, wasn't that cock-up due to another satellite not getting into space? Anyhow, I can't wait for the fun when that moves (back home);)

One hopes that something will give and the govt. will step in and force somebody (BBC) to come up with a geniunely fair FTV solution that uses any off-the-shelf STB and a non-sky CAM. I guess you could also get the BBC to distribute access cards off the back of the Licence Fee tooO-Ha

Have Fun,

Mark.

 

[Analoguesat]

Astra 1K had a failed launch - it got stranded in low earth orbit due to a rocket mishap. It was downed for safety reasons about 10 days after launch, and its swimming with the fishes at the bottom of the Pacific now.

I have a suspicion that 1D will be drifted round sometime soon to help out.

 

[rolfw]

One hopes that something will give and the govt. will step in and force somebody (BBC) to come up with a geniunely fair FTV solution that uses any off-the-shelf STB and a non-sky CAM. I guess you could also get the BBC to distribute access cards off the back of the Licence Fee too

I can't help thinking that you are dreaming Mark, just aint gonna happen, it's cheaper in the UK for most average punters to take up the Sky Freesat offer of £150 installed and they (BBC/Gov't) will not take the expatriate market into cosideration.

 

[loftyj]

You all seem to have missed the point, the only people that can force ITV and channle's 4 and 5 to go FTA as the broadcasting act says thay should be is OFCOM, but that is a quango headed by a goverment minister and there is no way this goverment will upset one of there supporters.

I rest my case.

 

[rolfw]

OFCOM can't do it either, they (ITV etc) are FTA on their terrestrial network, the satellte network does not fall under the same rules.

 

[BarMoo]

I can't help thinking that you are dreaming Mark .

Yep, that'll be me. O-Ha But this FTV/FTA stuff is fascinating - only because its quite obvious that there isn't any joined-up thinking going on.

it's cheaper in the UK for most average punters to take up the Sky Freesat offer of £150 installed.

True, but, an off-the-shelf satellite set-up can cost less than the SKY offer and doesn't have the hassle of a required phone connection.

the (BBC/Gov't) will not take the expatriate market into cosideration.

Ideed: when its hard enough to appease the locals - why get bogged-down with expats

Have Fun,

Mark.

 

[skyoutUK]

I second that Astra 2D sucks big time! Did anyone else notice that damned satellite was launched and broadcasting in record time less then 2 months! When you compare that with other birds on 28° East with 2 or more years of delays, Astra from 19° having to be moved to cover lack of 2B in the beginning and not to mention 2C still on 19°.

And what's worst things are about to get even bleaker new generation of Astra satellites (after K) will have ultra tight beam transponders that cover only single region not even the whole country and reuse of same frequencies in other parts of Europe so you can forget about the big dish. I just hope someone streams channels on the internet.

While other public broadcasters like ARD, ZDF, BVN strive to cover as wide area as possible some even simulcast on Astra and Hotbird, BBC does its best to limit reception to as close to UK as possible.

If some reports are to be believed C4 will fill 2D transponders with interactive services and M4 yet to be launched but I got a bad feeling they’ll go the way of BBC and another terrestrial channel gone.

That's it rant over!

 

[BarMoo]

what's even bleaker [are the] new generation of Astra satellites (after K) that will have an ultra tight beam transponder that cover only single region

And I always joked about (refering to DOG's) "BBC your street, next to the fishshop, Bishopsgate"

Erg! Perhaps, thanks to Nastria - it might happen!;)

 

[devonbrown]

OFCOM can't do it either, they (ITV etc) are FTA on their terrestrial network, the satellte network does not fall under the same rules.

Is it possible that these rules will apply to the satellite network when the change over to digital comes about. I notice from NET1 that the Border area is going to be a test zone. I know that everybody there cannot receive Freeview and also not everyone can receive Ch5. Reception of the other analogue stations can also be quite weak in this area. I have a personal axe to grind on this subject as my Scottish home is in a weak analogue signal area where I cannot receive Freeview or Ch5, sometimes BBC2 and the other signals can go missing also.

 

[ccc]

Rolf,
What you seem to ignore is that many
will never ever want to have any connection with BSkyB ever ever
and that FTA for ITV, C4 and five is the
only
way forward in the future.
Additionally people do not want to have 2 receivers
one for BskyB and another for the rest.

 

[rolfw]

I'm not ignoring anything ccc, just being pragmatic, at the moment and unless things change dramatically, Channel 4, 5 and ITV cannot go FTA. The content providers would kick up, they all air a lot of US content and it would be in direct conflict with their (the providers) European sales area.

So what happened prior to ITV, 4 and 5 being on diigital satellite? Nothing, people made do and there was no coverage for Europe at all.

We have two different arguments here, the BBC went FTA and people moaned, well those outside the footprint did, the others are still encrypted and people are moaning because of that. If the others do eventually go FTA, you can almost guarantee that they will be on a restricted footprint as well, so even more moans from the expatriate contingent.

The argument regarding the two receivers is a bit of a red herring, as the vast majority of the digitally deprived do not have an existing FTA satellite receiver, so it wouldn't involve having two.

The comment "many will never ever want to have any connection with BSkyB ever ever" is again only relevant to a fairly small minority, most of them sat hobbyists who have an almost pathalogic loathing of Rupert Murdoch. Most people who want the channels, will use which ever method is available at the cheapes price, and whatever anyone says, £150 for a fully installed satellite system is pretty good value.

 

[Old Satellite]

skyoutUK
And what's worst things are about to get even bleaker new generation of Astra satellites (after K) will have ultra tight beam transponders that cover only single region not even the whole country

slight change of subject however-

Interesting would like to know where this information comes from? - one of my collegues works on the actual design of travelling wave tube amplifiers.

As far as I know the smallest commercial satellite footprint currnetly is around 250KM. Reducing this to 50 Km is functionally possible however there will still be side lobe performance issues which would still allow some out of footprint reception.

There is always a possibility to recieve- just depends how willing and how much money you have. there is one very famous case in latin america of one customer whom purchased a 13 mtr satellite dish to recieve ASTRA he obviously thought Astra was great

Is it Astra that sucks ? or is It the BBC for choosing 2D due to its licencing of programming material that sucks? .The bbc does offer BBC world free to just about every region by satellite? and it has been very kind not to update the encryption of BBC prime for a long time.

Its always nice to have some thing more - how much and when and how much do you want to pay for it?

regards

Old Satellite

 

[Likvid]

Look from the right side of things, in the U.S these footprints are very common from the DBS satellites where regional channels should only cover Dallas, Texas for an example.

The broadcasters have only bought the right to transmit the programmes in a certain geographic area.

Just look at Sky Digital, they have only the rights for U.K and Ireland, they must concentrate the coverage to only this area or otherwise there would be problem with the owners who signed the contract with Sky where it states ONLY U.K and Ireland to be broadcasted to.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sky in the future decide to move all their channels to a tight beam just covering the U.K and Ireland, and i think the beams from future Astra satellites will be even more focused than the current Astra 2D beam is today.

Sad thing of all this is to us people who likes to watch foreign channels in other countries.

Another question to "Old Satellite"

Your friend, have you talked to him if Astra and Intelsat and so on know where and how strong these sidelobes are on their satellites?

I realize that it is unofficial information they wouldn't want to give out to people.

My personal opinion would be to encrypt all FTA channels back again in NDS and place it on a Eurobeam.

Regarding BBC Prime and World they can't be compared to BBC One and the rest as they only show stuff that they can broadcast outside U.K.

I want to watch Emmerdale which ordinary BBC got but not BBC Prime.

But there are alot of other great series on BBC.....

And what's worst things are about to get even bleaker new generation of Astra satellites (after K) will have ultra tight beam transponders that cover only single region not even the whole country and reuse of same frequencies in other parts of Europe so you can forget about the big dish. I just hope someone streams channels on the internet.

 

[Likvid]

That is really stupid, well not for people satisfied with only Sky.

Same situation is happening in my country, Viasat going NDS and Canal Digital Conax.

Additionally people do not want to have 2 receivers
one for BskyB and another for the rest.

 

[anton]

The Guardian claims that Channel 4 will jump across to 2D (with an eye to going FTA later). Astra doesn't speak of 2D at all.

Mark, are you trying to scare the **** out of me?!
Is this real, can you post a link to this Guardian article?

Well, there is no use kidding ourselves, ever since the tragic days of May 2003 I wake up in the middle of the night screaming NOOO to the dreaded ''no signal is being received'' message on the two remaining channels.
It really seems inevitable but just how IMMINENT is it ?

By the way, what is you current situation ? I thought you might have been set with a 150 cm in Berlin. Are you watching or not?