best LNB for the fringe satellite reception

[some888]

hi guys!
please share your experience for the best LNB from your experience.

I'm trying to get Xtra TV form Amos and no luck so far.
My location is London
for the testing I'm usind TD 110 dish
but I've been able to get stable reception on quite many transponders so far
according to lyngsat I been able to get stable reception from the following beams:
_http://www.amos-spacecom.com/resources/flash/map/multiMap/map_amos2start.html Europe 05.5

_http://www.amos-spacecom.com/resources/flash/map/multiMap/map_amos3start.html Europe V 06.6

but what I still can not get is

_http://www.amos-spacecom.com/resources/flash/map/multiMap/map_amos3start.html Europe H06.5

that is a bit strange because coverage maps for European beams V and H are the same, only Europe 0 is different and has much stronger signal.
So far I managed to test following LNBs on the freq 10722 H 27500

I collected some LNBs I had I home and did simple testing.
here are some results
teste using sm-2500 meter
all LNBs are old and been in use and for some of them I just can not find model number.

*twin Bigsat 0.3 db / snr 69 - signal quality 45
*single wiztech 0.3db/ snr 67 - signal quality 44
*single Smart Titanium 0.1db( I think) / snr 72 - signal quality 54
* single MTI AP8-xt2ebl 0.2db / snr 70 - signal quality 47

from my experience MTI Highline was the best, but I do not have it at the moment. I ordered it already and will give you results soon

Please share your experience what I your best LNB for the fringe reception

in particular I'm interested in your feedback in

TECHNOMATE HIGH-GAIN GOLD series

INVERTO BLACK ULTRA HIGH-GAIN series

INVACOM TWIN UNIVERSAL 0.3dB LNB TWH-031 or same series

WS INTERNATIONAL VOLTAGE SWITCHING LNB OFFSET / Low Noise Figure: 0.2dB / 13K- High Gain Figure: 70dB

 

[timo_w2s]

When I compared a Smart Titanium to a Black Ultra a while ago on a clear 80cm dish and a solid 70cm dish, the Black Ultra was usually a couple of points higher on the quality reading.

I also have a Black Ultra on a TD88 which works very well. The long neck on the single output LNBs allows for easy fine tuning for the best focal point.

 

[some888]

thanks for your feedback m8!
indeed I heard from some other people that long neck of black ultra allows you to play around with focal point to get the best results.
Some people been even modifying dish arm to get the best results.
but what is strange to me - manufacturer (triax) of the dish really supposed to design focal point of the dish to maximum performance.
Or focal point differs on different satellites?

anyway I ordered already - All of them supposed to be top Performers
*TECHNOMATE TM-4 HIGH-GAIN GOLD 0.1dB QUAD LNB
*INVACOM TWIN UNIVERSAL 0.3dB LNB TWH-031
*INVERTO BLACK ULTRA QUATTRO LNB IDLB-QUTL40-ULTRA-OPP
*LNB MTI QUAD 0.2 dB GAIN 70DB HIGH LINE AK54-XT2N

I will let you know result as soon as they arrive

Any other feedback or ideas are greatly appreciated
thanks

 

[rolfw]

Unless you are feeding a multiswitch, you may want to change the order for the Black Ultra to a Quad, a Quattro LNB is not a universal LNB, each output is a separate component of a universal.

 

[some888]

Sorry m8 - my mistake it is quad not quatro

 

[timo_w2s]

Or focal point differs on different satellites?

The focal point is down to the way the dish surface is made and some LNBs tend to work better with some designs of dishes.

I will be interested to hear your results.

If you are still stuck and you can't increase your dish size, one other possibility is trying another receiver. I don't know if the one you are using at the moment is particularly sensitivity or not but when I switched my Technomate 6900 for a Dr.HD F15 it made a big difference for fringe reception.

 

[Chris76]

There is a thread for the triax td110 using a coin on the back of the arm to improve the focal point of the dish I myself use this trick as it really works giving an improvement on focal point easy but very affective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[some888]

There is a thread for the triax td110 using a coin on the back of the arm to improve the focal point of the dish I myself use this trick as it really works giving an improvement on focal point easy but very affective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you post the link please

thanks

 

[some888]

Looks like the half of the tread is deleted .... with no possibility to be restored.... really sad
but I will continue
*weather conditions a really bad and changing constantly. that's why I will not give any final verdict yet or any numbers
So far I have received and managed quick testing following LNBs:

*INVERTO BLACK PRO C120 TWIN with Gibertini C120 Feed Horn F/D 0.67
*MTI QUAD LNB 0.2 dB GAIN 70dB HIGH LINE AK54-XT2N
*TECHNOMATE TM-4 HIGH-GAIN GOLD 0.1dB QUAD
*INVACOM TWIN UNIVERSAL 0.3dB LNB TWH-031
*INVERTO BLACK ULTRA QUAD LNB IDLB-QUDL40-ULTRA-OPP

As I said Before because of changing weather really difficult to test..... and I give final test result as soon as the weather improves and is more or less stable, but so far MTI QUAD LNB 0.2 dB GAIN 70dB HIGH LINE AK54-XT2N is ABSOLUTE CHAMPION! But because of because of weather result may be deceptive

the worst performance so far was from TECHNOMATE TM-4 HIGH-GAIN GOLD 0.1dB QUAD not surprise after final testing I will try to explain why

I'm waiting for one more LNB to arrive and one more feedhorn


* WS int ESX524U Universal LNB Quad (I had to order from US and it will take some time to arrive)

*HIRSCHMANN CSA-850A FEEDHORN what will be tested with INVERTO BLACK PRO C120 TWIN

Also ordered Gibertini 1.25 dish

Complete testing will be done of ALL LNBs on Both Dishes

thanks

 

[Captain Jack]

Sounds good. For a loooooong time I used to use MTI's Blueline 0.6dB simply because it outperformed pretty much anything else. That was around 4 years ago though and things have moved on - but probably not a great deal.

 

[some888]

Blue Line was a good LNBF ..... years ago..... but is obsolete among LNBF these days.... From MTI I would recommend only High Line - that is really decent LNBF
from another hands some people are having a very good result when modifying MTI blue line feed horn.......
I'm looking for materials now and after finish testing LNBs I will make another topic about modifying them.... I have a few theories... but I need some practical testing at first

 

[some888]

hi!

weather today is good and I tested LNBs that I have already
my Location - London
Dish td 110 - Dark Grey Colour (I suspect it is clone from turkey, Because Triax is not producing TD range dishes for the few years)
Tester sm-2500

I could upload some pictures, but can not do it on this forum

some of tested LNB's are twin, single and some Quad. Because for me to buy all quad just for the testing would be too expensive, but I will give you the prices for all as for quad just to compare price to value
besides just for fun I decided to test one more LNB. ROSS 0.3db single - the ones what are coming with ROSS "freesat" box from B&Q, this LNB supposed to crap and it's price is next to nothing
But when I finished testing it was not so funny any more.

here are some test results from Amos






1 First Place takes MTI 0.2 dB 70dB HIGH LINE AK54-XT2N

specs:

• Sehr ausgeglichenes Signalverhalten über den kompletten Frequenzbereich
• Übertragungsart: alle analogen und digitalen Formate einschliesslich HDTV
• Extrem geringes Phasenrauschen auf allen Oszillatorfrequenzen
• Nahezu lineares Rauschmass über die gesamte Bandbreite
• Ausgangsfrequenz MHz: Low 950 - 1950 High 1100 - 2150
• Eingangsfrequenz GHz: Low 10,7- 11,7 High 11,7 - 12,75
• Oszillatorrauschen bei 10000 Hz: -80 dBc / Hz max
• Reflektortyp: Parabol oder Parabol Offset Antenne
• Sehr hohe Kreuzpolarisation Entkopplung: > 25dB
• Oszillatorrauschen bei 1000 Hz: -55 dBc / Hz max.
• Anschlussoptionen: 1x digital oder 1x analog
• Sehr hohe Oszillatorstabilität: +/- 1MHz max.
• Oszillatorfrequenz GHz: Low 9,75 High 10,6
• Horizontale Polarisation: 16 - 19 VDC
• Vertikale Polarisation: 11,5 - 14 VDC
• Betriebstemperatur: -40 ~ + 60° C
• Vollständig Full HDTV kompatibel
• Verstärkerleistung: 68 dB - 72 dB
• Feedhorndurchmesser: 40 mm
• Bandumschaltung: 0 - 22 KHz
• Sehr hohe Frequenzstabilität
• Anschlussart über F-Buchse
• Vollständig 3 D kompatibel
• Ausziehbarer Wetterschutz
• Stromaufnahme: 100 mA
• Rauschmaß: 0,2 dB typ.

Price for this LNB is expensive because it's difficult to get in UK and I had to ship it from Abroad
it makes sense to buy it only if you want to have most out of your dish. It is almost twice more expensive then Ultra


2 Second Place takes INVERTO BLACK ULTRA IDLB-QUDL40-ULTRA-OPP

It is a bit behind of MTI but not too much.... Price for it is 23- and it is most reasonable buy



3 - I can not put any of remaining LNBs into the third place because performance is very Close

* Price for quad invacom would be arond 39..... Do not buy this LNB! It just makes no sense to buy such an average performer for that price. This LNB was top performer donkey ages ago, I even can not remember the year it was designed. After that I can not know any new LNB from Invacom for domestic use. This LNB is obsolete.

* It is quite difficult to judge performance of INVERTO BLACK PRO C120 TWIN with Gibertini C120. Because it could give a better result with different feed horn or on Gibertini Dish, but I will test it later when I have it.
For time being it just makes no Sense to buy it on TD 110

*One of worst performers is TECHNOMATE TM-4 HIGH-GAIN GOLD 0.1dB QUAD
Even cheap ROSS 0.3 LNB gives Better results on some frequencies.

Let's try to find out why:
Most of Satellite brands for the Domestic use is nothing else then Chinese Re branded OEM !!!

even if to take most serious Brands :
TM, Alsat, octagon, opticum, Icecrypt,etc

none of these companies have a research facilities and never came up with any patented technology for the sat reception.
For now where the hell on earth they came up 0.1db noise ratio? When Companies delivering sat products for the commercial use have a quite moderate 0.2, 0,3db?
The Answer is quite obvious they simply lie about their specs.... Nobody have a means to check it anyway unless you have a university equipment
All the Brands like - mega sat, hyper sat, super sat etc are the same.... most of those brands even do not exist as a company.
this is one of reasons why the same model LNB but from different pallet - may perform different. It is cheap Chinese OEM without proper quality control
it is really funny how some companies trying to sell their producs :

* Gold plated connectors! - makes no sense, because to make any improvement in signal loss you need to have gold coaxical cable, gold diseq switch and gold tuner
* HD, 3D compatible! - Any universal LNB is HD, 3D compatible.

As a verdict for the most people any cheap LNB will do the job and you will not feel ANY DIFFERENCE.
Just do not let for the rip off artists to fool you!
And if you want a better signal getting a bigger dish gives you times more better signal then getting best LNB in the world



P.S
testing will continue on Gibertiny 1.25 dish and after that with modified feedhorns

P.P.S
I did my best - but forum software is not displaying Table properly


Admin edit - Ive nabbed your table off another forum and made it into a picture, which can be inserted

 

[some888]

hi!
there will be no testing with modified feed horns
The reason is very simple - it does not work
IT MAY WORK, BUT ONLY IN VERY CERTAIN CONDITIONS - YES IT DID worked FOR ME ON SOME DISHES AND ON SOME SAT BEAMS BEFORE....
but those dishes been a bad quality dishes with bad geometry and then it helped....
but not now whatever I tried to play around both with feed horn itself or the plastic dielectric made the things worse only

P.S
focal point of the td 110
at least on my TD 110 focal point is correct, there is no improvement when trying to adjust LNB with long neck

thanks

 

[Captain Jack]

Nice one. I feel like I should try the Ultra again on my Fibo - without the Fibo feedhorn. Or maybe if I can get a new feedhorn, which isn't seized like mine is.

Could you please report your table, perhaps as a picture, as it's very difficult to read it due to messed up formatting?

 

[some888]

price 10722H 11572H 11222H MTI high line AK54-XT2N 39£ snr 77/agc 53 snr 73/agc 37 no lock INVACOM 031 0.3db 39£ snr 65/agc 49 snr 62/agc 35 no lock Inverto ULTRA 0.2db 23£ snr 71/agc 51 snr 69/agc 32 no lock Inverto Black Pro C120 +feedh. 28+17=45£ snr 71/agc 51 snr 69/agc 25 no lock TM Gold 0.1db 20£ snr 70/agc 45 snr 68/agc 32 no lock TITANIUM 0.1db snr 71/agc 51 snr 72/agc 36 no lock ROSS 0.3db snr 73/agc 48 snr 70/agc 29 no lock


tried it but useles..... can not upload pictures as well

try to google my post text..... I published it elsewhere as well with pics.... thanks

 

[Captain Jack]

Can you try 11258H on Amos? That's the strongest Xtra TV transponder here and is only really lockable at around mid-day for a few hours. I am further west from you so you should be able to get something. I know Vipersan in Manchester is getting 11389H on his TD110 and Black Ultra but on a very intermittent basis. Not really watchable.

What receiver do you have? I can get a lock on Dr HD F15, known for their tuner sensitivity and also Vu+ Uno, which in my own tests is just as sensitive as the F15.

 

[Llew]

hi!


* It is quite difficult to judge performance of INVERTO BLACK PRO C120 TWIN with Gibertini C120. Because it could give a better result with different feed horn or on Gibertini Dish, but I will test it later when I have it.

I'll be interested in your results with the Inverto Black Pro on the Gibertini when and if you test it, and which feedhorn works best with it.

I'm using an Inverto Black Ultra Twin LNBF at present on the Gibertini, and I have an idea that a feedhorn ideally matched to the dish would perhaps give a better all round performance.

 

[Captain Jack]

Yes, I would also be interested. I am wondering if the Fibo with the Black Ultra but without its feedhorn would be better than the Black Pro with the feedhorn.

 

[some888]

hi!
thanks Captain Jack for the info! I started to monitor 11258H.
I have 3 STBs
* cheap chinese openbox F3 ( does greatly its job for the money it cost)
*DM 800
*Cuberevo 9000
I had a time to monitor 11258H only on Cuberevo and Openbox... yes I have a signal on 11258H ..... openbox picks it up only once in a while ....but I was been able to scan the channels at least
but on Cuberevo it's almost stable signal (locks and looses signal every 2-3 seconds.... still not watchable)

if you say Vu+ Uno have a decent tuner I'm really considering getting it
besides few db of signal I'm loosing on 1.1 diseqc switch ..... I will try to make direct connection and to see how much it helps
for now I have a feeling that with arrival of Gibertini 1.25 I have a good chances of more or less stable signal.

thanks

 

[Captain Jack]

Great news. 11336H is also the same strength as 11258H, lockable but unwatchable.

The F3 has a very good tuner according to reports on this site. Vu+ Uno in my experience is also quite sensitive and is just as good as Dr HD F15 that has the most sensitive tuner around.

All that said, a Gibby 1.25m will probably get you the extra dBs you need.

By the way, are you looking for this package to specifically watch Ukrainian/Russian channels or just to see if you can get it?