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best way to wire up my house

Tiredeyes

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#1
hi all.
My first post so be gentle with me.... ;-)
I have a sky + box, which i need to hard wire up and send to all the tv's in house. 6 in total.
im guessing that can run on channel 9

I also have a telewest cable box to be put on the same arial and broadcast to all 6 tv's
so could set that up on channel 8.

would like to be able to change channel on just the tv in my bedroom, for sky+, which i can at the moment, but not cable.

what sort of connector do i need to connect sky+ and cable up to output along 1 TV cable.
would i need a booster?
cheers yawl...
 

rolfw

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#2
OK, you mention Aerial in your post, do you receive anything off the aerial, or is it all via the telewest cable?

Some cable signals will not happily travel through a Sky box loopthrough and will disrupt the Sky output channel. Providing that yours works OK (easily tested on the main TV aerial input), then all you need to find is a clear channel which does not interfere with the Sky output.

You will then need to run this into a 6 point amplifier which is capable of supporting the Sky remote eye system, many amplifiers do not like cable signals either, there are too many channels and it causes secondary harmonics.
 
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#3
Just to add to what Rolf said .......

for some help see www.tvlink.co.uk , look especially at "amplifiers", the 8 output T180 and wiring diagrams, given for SKy, but it would be something similar for Telewest. Then you back-control with eye links, the "link plus" extender, and your existing remote control handsets.

The SLX8b amplifier is similar to the Global T180, but cheaper (google, to find it).

Some cable boxes have problems passing remote control signals "backwards" through the Sky link system. Various manufacturers claim the Telewest is compatible, but you might mwish to check this by looking at (or even asking a question in!) www.cableforum.co.uk .

Note that this system of "wiring" your house does not include stereo tv sound, mono only I'm afraid, unfortunately, due to the previous use of NICAM on UK analogue tv.
 

Tiredeyes

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#4
Hi, cheers for that.
dunno if i explained it right.
I will try again. I have a TV ariel on roof that i get free anologue & Free to view digital channels on my DVB TV in lounge.
In lounge I have Sky + plugged into skart on tv (ext2). and runs 1 co-ax to my bedroom with tv-link eye. i can change channel on sky+ in my bedroom.

I have now got a cable box with all channels on also in the lounge, on ext3, skart, but how do i run it round house? can i plug output from cable box into sky+ box, so like rolf said if i find channel i thinks its 63 or 36 on tv put this on tv channel8 for my cable input
my sky + is on chn 9 (47 i think) round house. then i

If i explain it backwards, like in-otherwords, i get 1 co-ax cable from every room in house downstairs to lounge, so like i have 5 cables coming into the lounge.
then get a 8way amplifier, plug these 5 cables in to it (outputs)
then the 1 input cable will come from my sky+ or digital cable box
(you reackon put my cable output (arial) to the inpt of sky+, then run the output of sky+ to the input of the 8way amp.
???
have i explained it any better

(wheni say cable, i mean my telewest box)

but i guess i wont get my telewest in my bedroom, because it has to run that special output wih 9v on? if i want telewest in my bedroom, i will have to swop my ariel connector, so i have to ariel connectors in my bedroom, magic eye to sky and one from the 8way amp in lounge which will be pushing out a sky+ feed on (chn46) and telewest on (chn36 or 63) and if i wanted to change chn on sky, i could anyway because magic eye is still plugged into cable with red light on, (this co-ax goes down seperate to sky+ box) but just not connected into back of tv in bedroom, but leave co-ax that comes from 8way amp in tv?
its getting complicated.... ? lol
i will have to test it and see.
any ideas as wot not to do.
i think the only one is not to plug that 9v output into anything, just leave it running to my bedroom, with magic tvlink plugged in.

but how can i change channel on my telewest box from bedroom too??
the loftbox looks good, but i need to distribute cable telewest and sky too, down just 1 co-ax cable.
jeez, im sooooo confused.
can you do this? get cable telewest and sky+ down the same single co-ax?
thanks fr the replys gys...
 
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#5
Aerial into idtv (built-in Freeview tv), then out again and into sky box aerial input. Then sky box aerial out, into the distribution amp.

The idtv will have an internal modulator ("select output UHF tv channel number"). So does the Telewest box - after consulting user instructions - though I don't know how you'd change the preset channel.

If necessary, you can combine the telewest "tv aerial out" and idtv "tv aerial out" via a tv signal splitter (used in reverse!), then into the Sky box, but I'm not sure how this would affect using the sky eye link, since the splitter actually contains matching resistors, and might "get a bit warm".

To control non SKy devices, using the appropriate remote handsets on the SKy link system, you need link plus, see www.tvlink.co.uk .

When setting up, it may take some trial and error to find "usable" free tv channles, for redistribution, which don't cause mutual interference.

Knowing which make and model of idtv you have would be helpful!
 

Tiredeyes

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#6
Knowing which make and model of idtv you have would be helpful!
the tv is a toshiba 42wt29b
it has a tv in and tv out, so yes i could put aerial into tv in, put co-ax from tv out to sky+ in, sky+ box has 2 rf outs, so i leave the magic eye to my bedroom (onrf2), and use rf out1 from sky+ to modulator or even a Y co-ax connector.
from the Y co-ax connector i could use it in reverse like u said and put the rf1 from cable box into other end of Y connector, then plug this into modulator.
holycr4p dude! is this gona work?

am i right in saying i could then tune tvs into chn 38 for chn8(this is where cable telewest is presented.
and into chn 68 for chn9 so i see sky+
so i click chn1, bbc1
chn2 bbc2
chn3 itv
chn4 chn4
chn5 five
chn8 telewest
chn9 sky+

i can change sky+ downstairs and in my bedroom.
but how would i change cable telewest box from any room in the house?
 
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#7
Wiring up house .....

First, an apology. Above, I said using a "splitter in reverse" might cause some problems, due to dc volts for "eye link" going through it. Complete rubbish, so just ignore, in fact there's no problem doing this (I was only half awake yesterday!).

dc volts does come out of sky box "rf2 out", but not from "tv aerial in", to which the "reverse splitter" would be connected! So, I repeat, there's no problem.


-------------------------------

When wiring up house, use satellite grade cable, because this has a continuous outer conductor - instead of just open braiding - and therefore is much more resistant to any outside radio interference (should there be any!) on long cable runs. The cheapest type is rgu6, sold by Wickes and other DIY stores as "satellite cable", that's ok. Or, you can order various sorts over internet, eg www.cpc.co.uk . Or buy at a specialist shop, if there's one nearby.

To remote control non-sky devices remotely, you need to add a "link plus". This is a tiny box that "inserts" into the tv cable going into SKy box rf2 socket, and 2 infra red transmitters plug into it, then you just put these close to the ir sensors to the devices you want to control, and can use the original handset form anywhere else in house (where there's already an eye link).

See: www.satcure.co.uk/tech/tvlink_plus.htm .

(You'd be using a T180 or SLX8b amplifier - not a "loftbox" with only 4 outputs - but it connects up the same).

Then, you need to tune the idtv modulator output, sky box ouput, (video recorder?) output, to different "spare" UHF tv channels, so you can select them from anywhere in house, on a connected "ordinary" tv set. This might take a bit of trial and error, ie, some channels might interfere with each other, or existing analogue or digital broadcast channels, but there's about 50 UHF channels total, so you certainly should be able to find enough "reusable" ones for just 3 or 4 devices!

Note that, all this should work without too much trouble, but (obviously!) I can't guarantee you won't get any problems. But, it should be ok, and you won't know until you try!

There are always possible problems, external interference etc, to which there are solutions (in-line filters, etc), but don't worry about this in advance, it's unlikely, and solutions do exist.

For a different "professional planning" approach to in house tv distribution, see: www.wrightsaerials.tv/Resources/Domestic%20Multi-Channel%20TV.pdf .

1 or 2 things ......

A reminder, this doesn't distribute stereo tv sound, just mono! If that matters, consider instead using video senders.

If getting the SLX8b amp, make sure it has got a "b" on the end (for "bypass"), since the "standard" SLX8 (no "b"!) won't "pass back" the eye link signals!

If you get all bits you want from cpc (above), they courrier deliver, and postage is free if total order is above £50.

(Crikey, it seems my member's profile just got upgraded to "specialist contributor", although it doesn't say what in, which is probably just as well .....!).
 

Tiredeyes

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A N Other Cable Box in bedroom.
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#8
Okay guys, cheers for all the help.

with your idea's i have done the following
I have put the aerial into the tv.
from tv put to cable telewest box and told it to be on chn54
put aerial from cable into sky+
tuned channel 8 on all tvs round house to chn54
and channel 9 to chn68
now i can watch cable box on 8 and sky+ on 9
sweet.
but...
rf2 from sky+ is just 1 cable going to our bedroom.
so we can change channel from our room.
i want to be able to change cable box from our room, not bothered about rest of house.
how do i do that?
can i put another link tv (at the back of my sky+) coming out of rf2 with an ir transponder looking into my cable box, and another eye by the side of my sky+ linkeye in my bedroom?
so i can sit in my bedroom and go 2 chn8 on tv, cange cable, and click to chn9 on tv and change channel on sky+ ?????
but remember i only have a wire in my bedroom coming from rf2 out of the sky box.
cheers for all the help
just this link then sorted !

oh i forgot to mention this is done with one wire (sat quality) from lounge to daughters b'room to sons b'room to study to frontroom.
the picture in loft is last on run.
I am guessing i need a power booster on rf1 out of sky+ box, as this cable runs all around house.
and put the tvlink eye (for cable) on rf2.
or shall i just push everything out of rf2 on sky+ box to all rooms in house, put a slx2b on this cable (rf2) and have a tvlink eye (for cable) in my bedroom
?
Thanks.... confused.tiredeyes !
 
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#9
Er, just follow the previous advice ......

For several way distribution, you really do (practically speaking) need a multi- output distirbution amp. However, if convenient, you can run a single long cable to where the amp might be (say, up one floor), then several shorter cables from there to (eg) the bedrooms.

You don't have to use all the outputs, only 1 or 2 if desired, although if you get 8 outputs (u said 6 rooms!), then they're there for future use.

If more convenient, you (possibly!) could do a small "tree", ie, sky rf2 out into one dist amp on ground floor (then outputs to ground rooms), with a single cable from one of those outputs then feeding a second dist amp on upper floor (with those outputs to bedrooms), which might simplify the wiring (only 1 cable between floors), but then that's 2 amps!

Be sure you get a dist amp type with sky eye passthrough, ie, a type mentioned above (or one that says it's compatible!). Most multiway distribution amps do not have this facility, and eye link wil not work with them.

Then, for remote control of Sky box from distant room, it should work exactly the same, ie, just point the Sky remote control at the "eye", (which has power light to show it's working, and blinks to show it sees the remote!).

To remote control other devices, as i said, you additionally have to add a "link plus" at the Sky box end, which then remote controls other non-sky devices using their original remotes (or possibly with just the sky remote, if you can find the corect codes!).

hope that helps!

(ps, you shouldn't need an extra "booster" as well, as the distribution amps already include some gain to compensate for cable losses!)

(in other words, if you look again at the amplifier wiring diagrams (see links) I've already given above, then the link plus would insert into cable coming out of sky box rf2 - just needs an extra lead - and if you wanted to use a 2nd amp to simplify wiring, then one output from the 1st dist amp - instead of going to a room - would go straight to the input of the 2nd dist amp instead).

(I've also found this link, might be a clearer diagram:

www.satcure.co.uk/tech/digilink2.pdf )
 
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#10
Just to add, I was in Maplin the other day. They've got the SLX8b, for £35 (expensive, as you'd expect, but it's there in the shop, you can buy one and walk out with it!). Also their own version of link plus, very reasonable at £5, but having only 1 ir transmitter, so good for remote controlling only 1 non-Sky device.
 

Tiredeyes

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A N Other Cable Box in bedroom.
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#11
Sweet cheers Spiney.
Will get just a slx2b i think as it only needs a small power boost up to top room (ie:loft!)
and i will get a link plus which will control my telewest cable box through rf2.
Again, cheers m8.
will try the weekend.
:-)



spiney said:
Just to add, I was in Maplin the other day. They've got the SLX8b, for £35 (expensive, as you'd expect, but it's there in the shop, you can buy one and walk out with it!). Also their own version of link plus, very reasonable at £5, but having only 1 ir transmitter, so good for remote controlling only 1 non-Sky device.
 

Tiredeyes

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#12
oh forgot to ask.
any idea's what a FTA 101 Digital Satellite Receiver uses? is it infra-red and will the tvlink plus be able to control it?
 
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#13
hello Tiredeyes, you're welcome to any info, (if I've got it and have time to post!).

I sometimes find your decriptions hard to follow, and therefore don't quite understand what you want to do. However, SLX2 and SLX8 types would have the same compensatory gain (against cable loss), I think it's 6dB, but following the above links would tell you. They differ only in number of outlets.

For any non-SKy tv receiver (or other device) whatsoever, including above sat receiver, the eye link system won't work directly, ie, you can't just plug the extension cable from a distant room straight into it, so what you have to do is include a link plus decvice at the Sky box end, then put the tiny ir emitter over the sensor of whatever you want to control.

Note that the eye link system works with infra red remotes generally, ie, whatever type of remote control you point at the "eye", the codes (modulated pulses) are sent back down it, no matter what they are, since it's just a repeater amplifier! For example, that's why Sky and Sky+ remotes will both work this way, although they send completely different codes! So, obviously, this would also work - in principle - with any remote controlled device at all (even a washing machine!), but most equipment can't "see" the pulses except through the i.r. sensor on the front panel, since a "link" detector isn't built into them. So, all the link plus does is take any remote control pulses already coming down the cable, and feed them into an ir emitter diode, which sends them back through the controlled device's sensor window.

This doesn't actually require any Sky box at all, ie, you can use the "Sky" eye link system to "remote extend" any remote control device, but then you need a separate dc power supply (which otherwise would come out of the Sky box RF2).

(I think the SLX amps already provide dc power for a possible masthead amp, but am not sure if they also do for a link plus, ie, whether this would actually work without a Sky box -or extra dc supply - connected).
 

Tiredeyes

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#14
Hiya Spiney cheers for that. Sorry for not being too clear.
i will keep it simple.

I already have this system on rf2 for sky+. i can change channel in my bedroom. while the sky+ box is in living room.
what i wanted to know is can i double up on rf2 ?
so in the finish i would have two "receiving eyes" in my bedroom, and a transmitter pointing into my telewest box?
(as rf2 relays the signal internally for sky+ remote control)
 

rolfw

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#15
You might be able to use a global Sky+ combiner, usually used to combine a Sky+ box and a standard digibox. Otherwise a wireless remote extender is probably the only other way.
 

Tiredeyes

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#16
rolfw said:
You might be able to use a global Sky+ combiner, usually used to combine a Sky+ box and a standard digibox. Otherwise a wireless remote extender is probably the only other way.
cheers Rolfw, can i use a wireless remote extender on the same line though?
ahaa, i have just looked up a wireless remote sender, this wouldnt go on rf2 cable at all would it.. its just 2 completely seperate boxs.
but a global sky+ combiner. i think thats the way to go...
(line i mean rf2. i just want to be able to change channel on my cable-telewest box in my bedroom now, as the cost is going to keep zooming up!)
and the only cable i have in my bedroom is from rf2 on sky+
 
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#17
Tirdeyes, I thought you wanted to feed 6 tv sets .....

For just 2 remote eyes, use the smallest suitable amp, T120 or SlX2b.

A videosender will plug into Sky+ SCART, and if it includes a reverse channel for remote control, then this would work with an ir emitter over SKY+ box window, so it doesn't use the "Sky eye link" system at all!

The Sky+ combiner only works with a standard and Sky+ reveicer together, it's useless for just Sky+ alone (see wiring diagram on www.tvlink.co.uk).
 

Tiredeyes

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My Satellite Setup
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Telewest Cable
A N Other Cable Box in bedroom.
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#18
spiney said:
Tirdeyes, I thought you wanted to feed 6 tv sets .....

For just 2 remote eyes, use the smallest suitable amp, T120 or SlX2b.

A videosender will plug into Sky+ SCART, and if it includes a reverse channel for remote control, then this would work with an ir emitter over SKY+ box window, so it doesn't use the "Sky eye link" system at all!

The Sky+ combiner only works with a standard and Sky+ reveicer together, it's useless for just Sky+ alone (see wiring diagram on www.tvlink.co.uk).
Spiney, I am. i am feeding (loft, frontroom, study, daughters room) 4 tv's using the cable out of rf1 on sky+
but only 1 cable from rf2 goes to my bedroom.
i did want to be able change channel in every bedroom, but the cost was increasing. so i thought i might as well just change channel in my bedroom.
i can already on sky+ via the rf2.
but i want to be able to change channel on my cable box.
and now understand that you cant on rf2.
 
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#19
Tiredeyes, you've got me completely confused! From previous posts, I thought that several tvs in other rooms was what you wanted to do, not what you've already got!

If that's what you currently have, then exactly how are you doing it?

Note that:

1) You can re-distribute tv signals from either rf output, 1 or 2, but eye link will only work into rf2 (since rf1 normally goes to just the "main tv", then the sky (or sky+) box is controlled by it's front panel infra red sensor, so link capability wasn't thought necessary on rf1 !).

2) You've already got remote eye link working in 1 bedroom. To extend to other bedrooms, simply add on one of the above mentioned amplifiers with multiple outputs (as I said, no other type, since most makes don't "pass back" the link signals).

3) Then, just put additional eye links where you want them.

4) To additionally control non-sky devices (ie, other stuff besides Sky+ box), a link plus "inserts" into the rf2 cable coming out of Sky box, ie, very short cable from rf2 to link plus, then original cable plugs into that! Then, you put the 2 tiny infra red emitters over the "sensor windows" of extra devices you want to remote control (these are tiny, and don't cover the whole window, so you can still point the remote straight at the device, as well as controlling indirectly from other rooms!).

5) To do all this, obviously you'll have to buy some bits, but it needn't be too expensive. See:

www.cpc.co.uk

www.grandata.co.uk

Both charge roughly similar prices. CPC have free courier delivery for orders above £35. For example, from cpc you could buy 1 SLX4b (4 outputs for the bedrooms), and just 2 "eyes", which would be approx £35, so that's free delivery!

Both also have a trade counter you can "buy over", Wembley for Grandata, Preston (I think!) for CPC (Farnell components).

6) I'm not sure why Rolf mentioned the plus combiner, but with only a Sky+ box you've no use for it (this allows you to use Sky and Sky+ together, with reduced functionality, needing only 2 lnb outputs instead of 3, which avoids "re-opening" the exisiting cable hole from dish into house).
 

Tiredeyes

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#20
lol, spiney, sorry m8.
I just addressed it that way to find out the best method.
At the moment i have one cable from rf1 go straight up side of house into loft.
from the loft i have just joined this 1 cable to 3 others, using a soldering iron and tape ;-) (you can tell im a sparky huh!)
those 3 others are my daughters b'room, my study and front room.
the sky+ and cable box are plugged into tv using scart. (living room)

so by your point of no4
4) To additionally control non-sky devices (ie, other stuff besides Sky+ box), a link plus "inserts" into the rf2 cable coming out of Sky box, ie, very short cable from rf2 to link plus, then original cable plugs into that! Then, you put the 2 tiny infra red emitters over the "sensor windows" of extra devices you want to remote control (these are tiny, and don't cover the whole window, so you can still point the remote straight at the device, as well as controlling indirectly from other rooms!).


I can buy a link plus and control my cable box in living room from my bedroom, using rf2 - wicked. i am going to do that.
but i guess because i have an eye already in my bedroom, do i need to buy just the tvlink to put into rf2, or do i need another "eye" in my bedroom?
sorry for confusing you.

so can I take the cable from the back of sky+ rf1 and put this cable into my slx4b, to amplify the signal to rest of houes?