Black ultra single v dual ?

[Vipersan]

Hi m8's
Always after squeezing the pips on my dishes ..I'm contemplating the long climb up 2 flights of ladders to the TD110 and fitting a black ultra ..
from recent experience fitting one on the TD88 I noticed quite an improvement on fringe reception..
Can't remember what I currently have on the TD110 ..but do know its a dual short neck jobby ..
..but since its dual I was considering a dual black ultra as a replacent ..
Not that I use the second output ..but since its quite high up ..I figured it wise to have a reserve in case of failure ..
However ...IF the single has an advantage in terms of gain and stability on fringe reception ..I'd be quite happy to dump the extra output ...as its rarely used anyway.
So can the experts comment on this ..?
Is there a slight advantage to using a long neck single over a dual ?
rgds
VS
remember the pips have to squeak...
;)

 

[Ghostleader]

The twin output one is also very,very good but has a 50mm length collar rather than the singles 70mm neck after a long time of playing with multi LNB setups I can tell you the Inverto Black Ultras are all I use.

 

[Ghostleader]

Just to add, most dish LNB holders collars are 20mm wide tops, so the Inverto Twin's neck is one & a half times the length of the holder, so plenty of focal play there.

 

[Vipersan]

Just to add, most dish LNB holders collars are 20mm wide tops, so the Inverto Twin's neck is one & a half times the length of the holder, so plenty of focal play there.

Thanks for the info ..
I figured it better to have more focal adjustment since its being fitted on a TD110 ..
So I guess either ..a single or dual would focus ok ..
Just wondering if the single has the edge ..as there's less electronics inside ..so less electrical background noise..
..at least that was the logic I was using..
rgds
VS

 

[Ghostleader]

You will have even more focal play on the TD110 as the Triax clamp is only about 15mm thick, it's the slimmest LNB holder I have come across in my puff, Metronic 90 being the widest at 26mm (If you stick a Inverto Green Eco in this you have nowt neck play space).

 

[sonnetpete]

I replaced my single Black Ultra with a twin after the single met with an unfortunate electrical malfunction (I think I shorted it out!) I can't detect one bit of difference, though as it's been pointed out the neck on the single is that bit longer. On my 1M Gibi I found it's 'sweet spot' was about midway and now on the Laminas it's a bit closer to the dish. Well worth experimenting with though.

 

[Vipersan]

Thanks for the info m8's..
Its looking like I might well replace with a single long neck black ultra ..and maybe use the freed up 2nd downlead for a second long neck at 5 degrees offset which I'll be able to use at extreme east in the winter months ...
err...when the leaves fall from the troublesome tree..
;)
Just out of curiosity ...does anyone have an idea of the 'sweet spot' position on a standard TD110 lnb holder ..when using a long neck single ultra ..?
is it well forward ...mid way or well back ..
I'm thinking about space for a single 2nd lnb clamp fastened around the available space on the neck of the primary lnb ..
Which will definately remain at the focus ...so don't wan't to use a triax multifeed bracket.
rgds
VS

 

[Robbo]

Generally I find that it works best when its just slightly closer than about half way (i.e approx 5/8) in on the single.

The twin works just as well, and on that it seems to work best when pushed in all the way.

 

[samoloko]

got 2 singles and 2 twins - twins are better with at lease 0.3 dB more snr but I found out also that Inverto Ultra Black are not very good with H pol

I got TD88 also so I would like to see where Is the right focal using Inverto Ultra Black lnbs

 

[ian xtv]

Generally I find that it works best when its just slightly closer than about half way (i.e approx 5/8) in on the single.

The twin works just as well, and on that it seems to work best when pushed in all the way.

Thanks for the info I had mine half way in lnb holder so adjusted now a bit closer to dish signal has increased 1 %

 

[Hakon]

I made a test between Black Ultra Single , Twin and Quad.
The 3 LNB i have was tested on 7w and of my three the Single performed best, i know that it's not a professional test to just use the receiver but that what i did.

 

[Robbo]

I've done similar tests on badr4 26E, and have never really been able to measure any difference between the two, I've probably tested approx 5 to 10 of each. Also noted on occasions that the sweet spot for the single LNB position on the TD110 is not always the same. I have a TD110 here at the moment and had to have it virtually all the way out to peak the signal (1cm in approx), whereas on my own TD110 its about midway as said above

 

[Vipersan]

Well ..
got the ladders up ..and brought down the old 'Starmax' dual ..
Been up there some years ....but its time to retire it ..
Damned heavy beast it is as well ...
So Robbo ...could you please look at the photo and tell me if I have the new long neck roughly right for the TD110 ..
Its the most awkwardly inaccessible dish I own ...so would like to position it roughly at the sweet spot before I get up the top of the ladder ...
errr,,,tomorrow I think ..
ladders can stay up overnight..
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

Hmm just noticed the photos you added ...so perhaps not ..judging by yours ..
cheers
VS

 

[Robbo]

Not where I usually put them mate (on the black dish), but on the red dish is the usual, i.e about midway.

If you could try it on the ground first?

 

[Vipersan]

Can't try it ground level m8 ..The TD110 is right at the apex of the roof ....so no way I'm bringing her down ..
If the dual on the Red Triax is about right ..then that translates to a similar position (approx half way) on the long neck single ultra..
so may well be about right on my setup..
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

Hi friends ..
Looks like this will be a worthwhile investment...
Temporarily hooked up one of the long necked black ultras ..to the TD110 at the focus ..
Not optimised as yet for the sweet spot ....waiting until I have the offset bracket (still in the post) ..before fitting a second long neck ultra 5 deg offset to the primary ...
This will need assembling at ground level ..then popping into place atop the ladders ..

Currently 3/4 inch too far away from the sweet spot ..at least ...but couldn't wait to try Nilesat ..

Granted I'm using the high gain F15 receiver ....but also used the 'T' piece F connector trick ..as used on the TD88 ..to avoid passing the signal through the motor ..
On the TD88 this gained me an extra 1db at least ...so useful for fringe reception.
The upshot,,, a quick scan of Nilesat @ 7W netted me 70+ new channels ...and several transponders just under the threshold ..which I may well pull once its optimised.

Nice ;)

Had to try it ...patience was never one of my virtues...but just crudely popped at the focus ..and already yielding results.
Average signal levels for the captured transponders ...
..a 6.5 >7.7 db spread.
with the prospect of more to come..
rgds
VS

 

[sonnetpete]

Roughly how many H T/P's are you catching VS?

 

[Vipersan]

Let me just go make a cuppa ..and I'll count 'em for ya Pete...

Just the ones that currently lock ..not the threshold ones that is ..
gimme 10 minutes

don't expect too much from the H's
rgds
VS

 

[Vipersan]

..As expected Non of the locked transponders are Horizontal ..though there are 4 showing signs of life hovering around the 1.2 > 2.2 db level ..
No where near enough for a lock ..
4 x verical transponders between 3.0 and 4.5 db ..so just below threshold for a lock ..
7 x Vertical transponders 5db+ giving solid locked performance..
remember its only a 1.1mtre dish ..but still quite an achievement I think..
rgds
VS