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bigrandydavid

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#1
Hello! I guess I`m one of those `newbies` that you all love so much.
I`ve been searching for a second hand receiver unit but was told yesterday not to bother as `ITV Digital` are merging (poss with Bsky:cool: and all boxes are to be upgraded in a month to stop all the hacks?? Anybody heard any similar rumours?? I know a month may be ambitious for them but could there be any truth in this??
 

rolfw

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#2
Not in the immediate future David (don't think me over familiar if I don't use the prefix) :), but it's not out of the question in the future. What is more possible is that they will upgrade the encryption and make it very difficult for the hackers.

It's been a long time coming.

Rolf
 

bigrandydavid

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#3
Thank you Rolf. BRD will suffice for the name. As you seem to be one of the more clued up people, can you explain for me what ECM`s are. If they effectively stop all but the latest pirate cards from working for as long as they are sent out I`m a tad puzzled as to why they don`t just transmit them more frequently or all the time. Do they log onto a particular signal or are they sent out to every receiver unit?
I`ve only recently found this site. I`ve been educating myself from the archives but haven`t found an answer to this yet. Thanks for your help.
 

rolfw

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#4
I think that the way they do things with short bursts of code, means that it's difficult to log by the hackers and hence more difficult to counter the ECM.

There are couple of members of the board who may be able to give you the definitive answer on this.

Rolf
 
C

CodeComplete

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#5
Another a bit of the ECM puzzle is that code is sent that the goldie responds to but it doesn't respond in a quick enough time frame this is detected and then the goldie is zapped. This is why more peeps are looking at silver cards - they run faster and have a lot more storage than the goldies.
 

bigrandydavid

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#6
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-Jan-02 AT 10:50 PM (GMT)]thank you kindly..i assume from these responses that the whole thing is something of a mystery?? I`m still curious if anybody else can answer as to whether they are sent out wholesale or maybe to specific regions or maybe even localised?? My over riding confusion is this. If a proper card can cope then why can a gold card not??????
 
N

nightsky

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#7
So from this i can assume that Silver cards are more effecient then there gold counterparts (better to use and will work with the same products that gold cards will),

But are they still programable with the same pic programmers that can be used to program Gold cards.
 

BarMoo

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#8
Dear all,

I understand that you are looking for a second-hand receiver. They are not difficult to find. Oft, a visit to a local sat or tv shop will result in you coming out with the goodies.

A friend of mine did this recently and parted with GBP 90.00; albeit, I think its a god-awful slow thing. Did people really use this Pace thing ?

Anyway he has it. I watched Liverpool loose on it this evening. 2-0. Ha, ha.

Not quite sure how the thread dissolved into pirate card talk ?

Call me Mark.

Mark.
 

BarMoo

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#9
How to feel like a prat. I am tired, home from work. Please don't piss me off with "your'e talking about something else".

I KNOW - I JUST NOTICED. WHAT A COMPLETE FCUK-UP AND WASTE OF MODEM TIME !!

How the .... doesn't matter. Next.

That's the last time I assume everythings to do with satellites on this site ! :-)

I got here by, er, train this evening. Sorry.

Mark.

I will find the right thing now :-)

Why do I always do this before I am about to go to bed ?
 
C

CodeComplete

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#10
You can write silvercards with da King. You do need different hex though to goldcards as they use different PICs/EEPROMs. Hexes I've heard of are picc2rd2, MoscAS, Strsh and Hymo.

Never done it myself but I saw a post by a geezer who had a silver AU up and running using the piccrrd2 hex. Have a look around for tutorials by 2jags or westtip.

Blank silvercards cost 2/3 times goldcards - start from 9quid odd.
 
C

CodeComplete

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#11
>localised?? My over riding confusion is this. If a proper
>card can cope then why can a gold card not??????

Goldcards are not copies of an OSC. They contain the same data settings that enable all channels but don't contain the same hex code as an OSC.

Now the following is all just my guesswork so someone with better knowledge may shoot it all down in flames...

ITV broadcast STB updates from time to time I guess that these updates contain code that is activated by an ECM broadcasts. So the ECM causes the STB to query something from the card - if the correct response isn't given in a certain time frame then the box issues some kind of reset command to the card and the MK/PPUA keys or such like are wiped. The goldcard no longer functions so you program it again and works until that same ECM is issued.
Meanwhile the guys that write the goldcard hexes are using loggers to detect these new ECM queries or whatever and then recode their hex so that it will give out the correct response and beat that particular ECM so Kevlar 1.62 becomes Kevlar 1.63 etc.
Meanwhile the ITV boffins get their hands on the latest Kevlar hex and workout the next ECM required to beat the hex.
And around and around we go until either ITV change the encryption method in the STBs and the hex on the OSC (rumours are that there maybe SECA2 on the way) or they have enough ECMs in the arsenal so that the goldcards hex can't cope with them all because of the memory limit.

As I said before that is all just guesswork so maybe a load a cr*p but does illustrate how it could work.

From what I've read recently ECM's are broadcast by different transmitters across the country at different times so someone maybe zapped in the Midlands but someone in South using the same goldcard hex isn't. ECM's are only effective on pay channels so Beeb1 doesn't get 'em. ECM's are broadcast at peaktime or when most ITV know goldcards will be being used on the pay channels such as footie matches, or big films.

One final thing to watch out for if getting a STB via auction is whether the STB is infact eligible for sale. I suppose you could check this out with ITV by giving them the serial number. For a while it was possible to subscribe to the cheapest prepaid package using cash and give a false name and address. As the box is only on loan during the subscription I assume selling it would be fraud ? Dunno... During the early days of OnDigital the boxes were the property of the subscriber and so these could be sold legally ?
 

bigrandydavid

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#12
thanks for that explanation. Sounds good!! but what was all that jibberish in the middle of the thread by mr mopstrhjdf??? or whatever his name is??
 

Channel Hopper

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#13
I would assume that since this is a satellite forum then ITV digital in its own sense would not be included, but Hey Presto ! there it is.

Since it uses Mediaguard as its proprietry embedded sytem of encryption then it is linked in more than one way with the system as used in Europe by the most successful broadcasters (and so is the most heavily pirated)

ECMs - Entitlement Control Management/Message or something similar, are the cat and mouse of the programme provider and the viewer.

You want it - the provider wants you to pay for it

If the provider has some funds then a new ECM will stop the viewer with the dodgy cards until the authorisation block is overcome, usually by a new code. If they (and I use the term 'they' as the provider, not the subscriber management centre) release a new key, or PMK, the official viewer gets a new card - in most cases by post, the dodgy card supplier - gets to reprogramme his card once the key is known

If the provider and SMC believe the piracy is serious enough that the funds given for the service are being undermined then a new proprietry system is issued, in most cases this will be a new solution, downloaded into the box by the broadcaster, or in the case where the broadcaster has not subsidised the receiver of choice during manufacture, a different PCMCIA module or CAM (the viewer has to pay for this out of his own pocket), as well as a new card.

In all cases the question of money on both sides is the key issue.

Those services that
1) can provide programmes,
2) subsidise the manufacture,
3) issue boxes on rental, and
4) monitor the use of that box by a telephone line,

have the most money - and for the most part ignore those boxes that go astray by selling on. However the chances of them making a scapegoat out of those that are caught abusing the system are somewhat higher than

a) the broadcaster that puts a late night channel on satellite, :cool: repeats programmes and commercials ad infinitum,
c) advises the potential viewer to get a CI receiver and CAM out of his own pocket during the first three months of material , and then d) pulls the plug in six months

ITV Digital has the terrestrial property of the UK (and some other small territories by virtue of spillover and large aerials); its got there by persuading the government that its capable of giving the best entertainment to those that live within that territory,and is capable of sending its SMC employees (AKA bouncers) coming down like a ton of bricks on those that wantonly exploit the system, by working the patch with the best of the SMCs that are around.

Best not to upset them

Then again from what Ive seen , satellite knocks the spots of ITVD so it would be difficult in court to argue that one has taken away the revenue, as most of the programmes have been round at least once on satellite anyway - Milud !.

I would however prefer if the ITVD business was dropped from this forum as its likely to result in the whole hobbyist thing being undermined and the forum becoming history.

Stick with satellite, space has no exclusions, except nuclear propulsion which is a shame, man would have reached Proxima Centauri, got back and had the photos developed by now.

Rant rant rant - its the red wine and cider chasers, honesht !
 

bigrandydavid

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#14
I understand your point about wanting to drop this part of the forum. I`ve got Sky Digital anyway and I pay for the full package. Personally, i`ve just been fooling around with gold cards on my mates box while he was on holiday and i`ve given it back now. The package is nowhere near as good as sky and they can`t possibly even begin to justify charging the same monthly fee, even though they do. Maybe for the time being they are not too fussed about the piracy as it`s tieing people in to 12 month deals. As soon as enough people sign up maybe they`ll beef up the security?? or maybe I`m talking out of my newbie ringpiece?? who knows. But as long as the possibility is there to program your own card then people will do it. So... if you can`t beat `em, join em is most peoples attitude. It was this section of your forum that initially got me interested in the whole thing so don`t go sacking it just yet.