Crap wall, wall plugs, bolts - HELP!

[Zed]

Hi guys,

I'm at my wits end and in need of some advice! I attempted to put up the wall mount today - TOTAL DISASTER! I used m8 RawlBolts (the ones with metal wallplugs) I got a drill bit with the bolts, so I know it was the right size. It was bigger than a 10mm bit, as it had a little erm..'sticky out bit' at the top, so the holes were bigger than 10mm. The wallplugs went in, BUT the bolts wouldn't screw very far. Once they got in to a certain point and started to meet resistance, the whole plug simply turned! So nothing tightened.

About 2 hours and 6 big holes in the wall later, I gave up with the RawlBolts, hit B&Q and bought a packet of 10mm Nylon wall plugs and 6 8mm bolts (according to the packet they need 6-8mm screws). Same thing again, the bolts went in to a point, then the whole thing just kept turning.

The brickwork looks old and pretty crap. I think the holes I drilled ended up bigger than they should have been as the brickwork crumbled easily when I drilled into it. I think the house was built in the 40s, but the brickwork looks pretty inferior to most.

I then tried an 8mm drill bit, but this was too small and the plugs just wouldn't go in.

So, I've got about 8 holes in this rental house and it looks pretty bad.

Can anyone advise please? Is there a wallplug thats designed for crap walls? Or am I basically screwed?

Thanks!

 

[Analoguesat]

Get some filler and mix brick dust into it. Fill the holes in and no-one will be any the wiser.

 

[Zed]

Ok, thanks for the advice, I'll try that. What about putting the mount up still? Is it possible to put it up on this possibly crap brickwork.

 

[Terryl]

You can get some epoxy for holding threaded rod into concrete, it comes as a 2 part syringe, you inject enough so the bolt will fill the hole and some epoxy just squeezes out, painters tape will keep things from getting messy, the threaded rod should be ready to mount the dish and mount in 24 to 36 hours.

You cut the threaded rod to about 30 to 40 mm longer then the hole, clean the hols with canned air before the epoxy.

Look for stuff like this.

hXXp://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/adhesives/

 

[A nonymous]

I get crap walls all the time

If its a really soft crappy sandstone wall i normally just use the next size drill bit down which in your case would be a 9mm drill bit with plastic 10mm rawplugs and 6mm coachbolts. Just hammer the rawlplugs in, they will go in without deforming if they are good quality ones.

Don't use rawbolts on a soft brick as it has a tendency to split the brick when you tighten it up.

Nano

Also if the wall is that soft try drilling the holes without the hammer action on.

 

[Robbo]

Rawlbolts often work in soft brick OK. I usually have 3 different types of fixings to try, one of them usually works, generally its the rawlbolts if all else fails.

Two tricks I use with them (in addition to having the hammer action off), is to bung some cable tie ends down beside the rawlbolt as inserting it, to give it some grip. Secondly, do it up with no mount, then you can hold the 'rawl' part of the rawlbolt still, until it gets a grip (poke a screwdriver or something down the side of it).

Also, once a fixing fails to tighten properly, the next mechanical fixing that goes in that hole needs to a larger diameter.

Those powdery light grey coloured aerated blocks are one of the worst, nylon plugs don't tend to work to well in those, but the rawlbolts usually do. I've not needed to use chemical fixings as yet, but the main reason I haven't is that they have to be left to go off for a while, before putting load on them.

 

[rolfw]

Same here Robbo, extra long plastic plugs and hammered in with a couple of ends from cable ties nearly always works, if not, good quality sleeve anchors usually can complete the job.

 

[Zed]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try the easiest first: buying a 9mm bit and seeing if I can tap in the 10mm nylon plugs. If that fails I'll try getting the rawlplugs in with some cable tie ends.

As for the holes already there, I'll try analoguesats suggestion and mix some filler with brick dust.

Thanks again it's been a great help!

 

[Zed]

Sorry, I'm back with a couple of questions regarding repairing the wall. lol.

What filler is best for repairing brickwork?

What's the best way to get brick dust? I have a few loose bricks. Should I just get a hammer and beat the crap out of them?

Thanks.

 

[Huevos]

I gave up with the RawlBolts, hit B&Q and bought a packet of 10mm Nylon wall plugs and 6 8mm bolts (according to the packet they need 6-8mm screws). Same thing again, the bolts went in to a point, then the whole thing just kept turning.

Are you sure the holes are drilled deep enough?

 

[Zed]

Well, I drilled them about the length of the bolt, maybe a bit longer, which was much longer than the plug. Unless they need to be even longer than the bolt itself?

 

[Robbo]

You should have a fair amount of brick dust already, from all those holes you've been drilling. The best way to get dust, is to drill.

Would have thought that any exterior filler would do the job. I normallly just use a bit of silicon mixed with brick dust, it blends in not too badly from ground level usually.

The hole only needs be deep enough so that there is room for the bolt to go right in, not deep enough and it will push itself out when tightened. Bit of tape round the bit does the job, or a drill depth guide if you have one.

 

[Channel Hopper]

The best way to get dust, is to drill.

Hmm, sounds familiar

[tube]yZ6WhbusHNM[/tube]

 

[Zed]

Hey guys,

Well I got the bracket up using a combination of a couple of suggestions. I bought a 9mm drill bits and hammered the nylon wall plugs in. Some of the plugs wouldn't go in, so I drilled the hole with a 10mm bit and stuck the plug in with some cable tie ends (which worked beautifully). So, success in that regard, thanks!

Then I had a horrible realisation that made me feel sick! I installed the bracket under a window, so the window ledge protrudes out and reduces the amount of bracket standoff available which wasn't even that much to begin with on this little bracket! The TD88 is a big dish and Im not sure if I can turn it enough to point where its supposed to. It all depends on which way the dish is supposed to point, which Im not too sure about, so I'm here again to consult the exeperts

I've posted a picture of the bracket. In the relation to the Sky Minidish that's up at 28.2, does my dish (for 19.2 - 13 - 0.8 ) need to be turned more to the LEFT or more to the RIGHT (when facing the dish - same perspective as the photo). If it needs to go more to the left, then Im basically screwed.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Zed]

Forgot the picture, here it is.

 

[moojuice]

Personally, I'd have used some T&K brackets and positioned them a little lower from that window ledge. They would give you a little more distance from the wall and a lot more strength than that bracket. Especially as your bricks are weak, you'd wanna distribute weight across several points on the wall rather than concentrated around one or two bricks.

Them triax dishes aren't exactly light!

 

[Vipersan]

Personally, I'd have used some T&K brackets and positioned them a little lower from that window ledge. They would give you a little more distance from the wall and a lot more strength than that bracket. Especially as your bricks are weak, you'd wanna distribute weight across several points on the wall rather than concentrated around one or two bricks.

Them triax dishes aren't exactly light!

..Totally agree moojuice ...weak bricks + poorly anchored flimsy barcket - T&Ks + relatively heavy dish ++ unknown factors such as a high wind = disaster eventually ..

My guess is its only a matter of time...doh!

Seriously Zed ..have a rethink regarding the brackets
I'd hate to think you'll be back up the ladder repairing the brickwork ..and replacing the dish one day..

..as to direction ...you're screwed anyway ..
The mini dish is your clue ..
Its pointing at 28 East ..
The sats you're after are even more westerly ....ie ...left of the minidish ..
..right at the beginning of the thread ..you were told the dish needed to be mounted higher than the gutter line..


rgds
VS

 

[Zed]

I was under the impression that mounting higher than the gutterline was really only needed if I wanted to go motorised, as I could see my 0 position at south. I'm now putting up a fixed dish with multiple LNB's, although I wanted 0.8w, which now looks impossible, using that bracket anyway.

I'm going to buy some T&K's, however before I do: would a set of T&K's with a 24" standoff give me enough clearance from the wall to see 0.8w (ideally) but if not, at least 13 and 19.2?

 

[Vipersan]

Looking again at your photo ..it looks like you have about 10 degrees of play westward before the edge of an 80cm dish hits the wall ..or even the window ledge ..
you _might_ just get to your first target 19 East ...but even thats debateable..
The others ...no chance
VS

 

[Zed]

Even with T&K's with 24" standoff? That bracket has about 30cm I think, the T&Ks would be twice that.