Eliptical(Oval) vs Circular dish

wium

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The above dishes with the the same area,which one will give the better reception?
Presently i am using an eliptical dish with a much smaller area(37%) than a circular one and using the same equipment on both , the eliptical one out performs the circular one.
 

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When you say elliptical do you mean wider than it is tall or the other way round? I think you mean the latter but, strictly speaking that's not an elliptical.

I go into it a bit more on the next post.
 

Channel Hopper

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'All other equipment ' cannot be the same, the feed design for a start needs to be matched to the dish for optimum performance. You also mention 'C and Ku' n yur profile and any dual feed system is going to be a compromise on reception.
 

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Gentlemen it is the same dish which i mentioned in the same forum two weeks ago under"Length of LNB arm".It is wider than it is tall and in South Africa it is used for VSAT transmissions.In the meantime i was given the original LNB arm but being a VSAT feed i replaced the arm with same length, 32mm conduit and mounted a lnb holder with a lnb, where the vsat feed was situated.The elliptical dish i mounted on a polar mount.I have got several KU dishes and the bottom line is to ascertain which is the better, using an elliptical dish and a circular dish with the same area.Other than using the same satellite receiver on both dishes, the VSAT dish may have an offset of 17, when compared to an ordinary dish with an offset of 21.In my post of two weeks ago i mentioned that i think one can get SKY elliptical dishes.
 

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I recall your post but don't remember the details so excuse me if I go over anything already said.

Firstly, quoting from another post of mine

If a prime-focus dish and off-set dish have the same F/D ratio then, by the laws of physics, they will have the same gain. There will be a slight advantage to the off-set as the LNB and arm won't be shading the dish but otherwise they will be the same.

The thing is that they generally aren't the same. The deeper a dish is, the lower is its gain. Why would anyone not want a dish to have as much gain as possible? Well, the problem is that a shallow (high gain) dish has poorer rejection of unwanted signals from the side compared to a deep dish and sometimes it's more important to reject the interference.

The F/D ratio is the distance from the LNB to the centre of the dish and D is the diameter of the dish. Obviously this is relatively easy to work out for a prime focus dish (circular) and less so for an off-set but the point is that they are different, which is what Channel Hopper was alluding to in his post - even if you can you physically fit the same LNB and feed horn to each typoe of dish they are matched for different F/D ratios and will not collect the correct amount of signal.

Moving on to an elliptical dish, these are a type of off-set dish. These first came about in the UK when $ly went digital using Astra 2 with its higher power transmitters. As the signal is stronger you can use a smaller dish to collect the signal but as the dish gets smaller angle of acceptance increases. Generally speaking satellites are spaced about 3 degrees apart which gives enough room for 60cm, and larger, dishes to reject the signals from neighbouring satellites. When you come doen to 45cm or so the dish can, even though it's pointing accurately at one satellite, inadvertantly collect some signal from a neighbour and this can cause interference. The solution is to widen the dish at the sides, to reject the neighbours, but keep the height reduction. The result is that the dish looks smaller and neater but still does its job. This was a major consideration for $ly who were combatting accusations of "dish blight"

Even though an elliptical dish has the same F/D ratio as other off-set dishes it still needs a special LNB (or, more properly, LNBF) because the feedhorn is part of the LNB. The special LNBF is shaped to match the elliptical dish and provide effective rejection of interference whilst collecting as much signal as possible.

Does that make it any clearer or have I just confused things further?
 

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The Orbital Platinum which is the same shape and about the size of a Sky dish is intended to be used with a standard round LNBF. I have one and it works perfectly well, especially with the Inverto Black Ultra.

The Maximum T85 is 91cm x 71cm and can receive a 34 degree span of satellites, with the approximate performance of a 70cm dish (48-49dBW). Its a less complicated alternative to a toroidal dish and much better than fiddling with multi LNB brackets.

No simple answers to your question.

Some elliptical dishes reject adjacent satellites, some collect as much signal as possible from a wide arc of satellites. O-Ha

A very flexible shape.
 

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For reference, the Maximum T85 receives 48dBW in the centre out to around 50dBW towards the edges, including the rain margin, over the practical range of circa 36 degrees.

If you put LNBs at the ends you can get the same range as the Wave Frontier, about 45 degrees. This requires around 52dBW at the ends for a decent rain margin. Few people seem do this in practice as it is fiddly.

LNB spacing is 4 degrees using LNBs with narrow caps, the Inverto Black Premium are very popular, having slim bodies and narrow caps (and are cheap!).
DIY with an Inverto Multiconnect LNB will get 3 degree spacing.
 

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hexah said:
The Orbital Platinum which is the same shape and about the size of a Sky dish is intended to be used with a standard round LNBF. I have one and it works perfectly well, especially with the Inverto Black Ultra.

The Maximum T85 is 91cm x 71cm and can receive a 34 degree span of satellites, with the approximate performance of a 70cm dish (48-49dBW). Its a less complicated alternative to a toroidal dish and much better than fiddling with multi LNB brackets.
This sounds like a dish similar to the Raven, one of which I also have. This is also wider than it is tall and designed to run with a standard LNB but the difference is that whereas the $ly elliptical dish is a section of a parabola both vertically and horizontally, the Raven is parabolic vertically and spherical horizontally. This is because it's designed to work with multiple LNBs.

Yes it's a compromise insofar as if you were to compare two otherwise identical 70cm tall dishes, one being 90cm wide (raven type) and the other about 60cm (conventional) the conventional one should have slightly better gain for a centrally placed LNB. The Raven type will be better for LNBs placed off the centre axis than a conventional one with multiple LNBs.

hexah said:
Some elliptical dishes reject adjacent satellites, some collect as much signal as possible from a wide arc of satellites.
Agreed, but subject to what I have written.
 

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I think the Raven Gemini dishes are discontinued.

They required people to buy separate multi LNB brackets to bolt on the central arm.

The Maximum T85 has the advantage of being supplied with a rail and 5 LNB holders. You can buy extra LNB holders as you can for the Wave Frontier dishes.

Otherwise they are indeed very similar. There is still a demand for the Raven Gemini, so I expect people will go for a Maximum T85 if they can't get a Raven Gemini and the Raven LNB arms.
 

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To be truthful, it's not a Raven Gemini, it's a Whatever-the name-was Gemini before Raven! Mine was S/H and came with a mounting for three LNBs so I didn't have to buy anything else. Think I paid £12 at a radio rally...
 

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That was a great investment! A real bargain.
 
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