Advice Needed Expert help needed. Totally stumped!

[sonnetpete]

I'd try and use Dishpointer.com to get an idea if there is an obstruction...enter your location and 28E as the satellite

 

[mariust5]

Is the cable a single run , any joints from the second engineer ? Any kinks anywhere ?

 

[SatSap]

Sorry, I'll have to go check. Something has happened ...don't know what exactly.

As I was doing something else I left freesat on channel 142 and it's been on that for the past 2 hours. The notice about weak signal/check connections on the screen bobs around as a screensaver so no harm done by it. But I just walked in and blow me down if True Entertainment appeared! I went straight to signal section and the Bit Error Level is fluctuating between 28 and 42, the signal strength was 53, and the signal quality was moving up between 10 to 12. I changed to channel 302 and 303 and they also appeared, same signal figures as 142. Then changed back to 142 and the signal went again. Now waiting to see if the channels reappears.

What do you think?

 

[SatSap]

I have patched together the google images from satpointer and uploaded the image (hopefully). The dish is on my chimney as in the photo, and the line of site is between the blocks of flats behind me, except I can see that the line crosses the furthest block of flats. Do you think that perhaps there isn't enough elevation to pass this block?

 

[Lazarus]

The look angle is around 25 deg, so you have no obstruction.

 

[A nonymous]

I know it might sound a daft question, but have any of the installers tried using a Freesat box rather than a Sky box. Certain channels are on different transponders on Sky.

If you can try a freesat box or a normal sat box to tune in the frequencies that are affected it may give you a better picture of what is happening. If the Freesat box can't see the same channels then you know its the dish thats at fault.

Nano

 

[Strathclyde]

If it's the just channels listed above that are missing it seems to be a problem receiving two transponders:

11307 H and 11307 V.

It could be the LNB isn't skewed properly (although seems unlikely if it's just these two transponders) or some kind of local interference that the Sky boxes are able to ignore but the TV doesn't like or is generating internally. It's certainly an odd problem.

 

[Strathclyde]

It may be a long shot, but do you have a DECT phone (ie base station, with wireless handsets)?

They can cause interference, generally on just one single transponder. Normally though, its interference, rather than complete loss.

If you DO have a DECT phone, turn off the base station and take handsets completely away from your TV and cables to the dish.

 

[Analoguesat]

Hello Strathclyde, long time no see. Welcome back

 

[Tony1A]

About four years ago, someone round this area was using an old wireless hub and it knocked hell out of my Panasonic Sky box on certain channels. They must have moved

 

[SatSap]

Sorry for delay, been working and not had any time to get back.

Right, weirdly, I came in this evening and for the very first time all 18 channels were available. No problems. Checking the transponder I noticed it was on 11307 V and the signal and quality bar were around 46 and 47 respectively....a first.

Before that I spoke to Samsung support who 'remote managed' the TV (yeah, that's new) and tried tuning it in as I sat on my sofa watching. They were not successful and arranged for an engineer to come out tomorrow. So, now, after all that the channels suddenly appear! I am going to see whether the channels are still available tomorrow morning and let the Samsung nominate engineer come out anyway. If it is a flaky tuner it can be fixed / tv replaced.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'll be back with an update to conclude the thread. I still want to know what is going on and why the channels have suddenly appeared.

 

[Tony1A]

Very strange......

 

[PaulR]

Thank you for your update. We would all appreciate knowing the answer - when it comes!

 

[SatSap]

No channels this morning. Nothing. Nada. % percent on that transponder this morning. I noticed that last night the sky was crystal clear. This morning there's heavy cloud cover. Do you think this is related?

 

[mariust5]

It could be a factor if the dish is out of alignment a tiny bit or if there are any joints or kinks in the cable ... without physically checking , very hard to tell right now . Take @nano's advice and borrow someones freesat cheapo box and monitor those channels .

 

[timo_w2s]

A Freesat box will look at the same frequencies as the Sky boxes for those particular channels so not sure how much extra info that would give us. It could be the Sky boxes used for testing where more sensitive than the TV's internal tuner.

 

[mariust5]

Which will take us back to post nr 2 and it means more money spent ... maybe time time for a SkyHD box hidden somewhere and a remote eye ...
It could be that the sky boxes pulled the channels in only for a brief moment while they showed them to you ...

Have the TV engineer give his opinion ... and go from there ...

 

[SatSap]

Hello again.

TV engineers arrived, looked at the TV and after a few minutes said, "it's your dish, not the TV. One of them said they could take the TV away and replace the whole mainboard but in his opinion it would be a waste of time because he was certain it wasn't a TV fault. He said he the dish / signal was the problem and that's what he wrote on the advice sheet he handed to me before leaving. Unbelievable.

Now I have contacted the last installer and told them that the Samsung engineers have been out and reported that the problem was the dish and not the TV as the installers told me. So they are coming out again, maybe Monday.

Beginning to wish I'd stuck with with freeview and just signed up for a VM box. Would have cost me less.

 

[PaulR]

I feel your agony.

It's a strange problem for sure. I'm beginning to suspect that it's a bit of both at fault. Maybe the TV satellite tuners are a bit deaf and the installation is bit out (or partially obstructed by the flats - unlikely I would have thought). The two $ly boxes used probably had sensitive tuners and so were able to extract the low signal.

When the second installer moved the dish how did he cable it up? Did he use some of the first installer's cable and make a join? What quality of cable did the first installer use?

Ask them to specifically check the quality of 11307 H and 11307 V and to check for cross polarity problems. He should have a meter which can check the BER (bit error ratio) between the two polarities*. This should tell us more than your TV quality reading. It may also be that the LNB is having trouble distinguishing between the polaries either because the skew isn't quite right or it's simply a rubbish LNB.

*EDIT

Actually MER (modulation error ratio) is better for setting skew.

 

[timo_w2s]

Which will take us back to post nr 2 and it means more money spent ...

True but I can't believe Samsung have produced a product that is so deaf it requires a larger than standard Sky dish in the UK for Freesat. If (and it's a big if) there is local interference then maybe a bigger dish could help drown out the noise but it's looking more like a problem with the installation. It's just amazing that two independent installers could both screw it up...