For the last time - Astra 2D in Berlin

BarMoo

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#1
I have trailed the threads, other sites and my cupboard full of sat notes. In short, I don't want to bugger this up (again):)

Here's what I know. One can receive 2D in Berlin (sic)!! One of the Irish pubs in Berlin explained with gusto: "with a great big fecking dish." :D

As for my 125cm (Gibertini) dish - well, I remember receiving a blocky ITV for about 7.348 secs. Got pissed (US & UK meanings), ripped it off the wall and made a fruit bowl out of the fecking thing.)(-red

Here's what I have come up with and would appreciate any help and guidance from said masters' of sat.

DISH: CHANNEL MASTER 1.80cm OFFSET (about €375.00 incl surcharges and tax). Any other recommendations? Will any dish @180cm do?

MOUNT: on one site it was in the region of €470. A rip-off, surely, for a "non-penetrating stand."

LNB: A plethera: Invacom Quattro-Switch LNB, MTI 0.6bd APTW, C120 type. Basically, I haven't a clue. Most seem to like the Invacom. Rolf recommended the c120.

CABLE: The sat shop where I will probably end up doesn't list, as such, CT100 cable. Question: is 100dB 7mm sat cable the same?

Thanks in advance;)

Mark.
 

Channel Hopper

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#2
Do you want cheap or versatility ?

The Prodelin 1183 series is a direct replacement for the Channel Master

There is an outlet for Prodelin in Germany (Duisberg I think)
 

BarMoo

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#3
Channel Hopper said:
Do you want cheap or versatility ?
Prodelin seem ok in price ($357.00 about €293.00) I'll contact the german rep for a local price. Perhaps I won't be able to order direct though.

I take it that the 1.8m Ku Rx Only Az/El Canister style should suffice - if I end up getting this brand:rolleyes:

Have Fun,

Mark.
 

Channel Hopper

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#4
Depends if you want more than Astra with this antenna. The 1186 is the polarmount version for use with a 45cm motor.

I would prefer the option of motorising for the small increase in cost (dont forget Astra 2D could theoretically reduce power still further in Germany)
 

BarMoo

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#6
And I thought this would be simple? Thanks for the links BIGDISH and your feedback CH;)

(On BIGDISHES recommendation of the 190cm) - I would only ask "is the extra 10cm worth it overall?" On top of that, I've been informed that there is a local size restriction on roof mounted antennas which happens to be 180cm (we are going to check this on Monday).

The Tripoint rep said he could do a Prodelin 180cm (canister style - whatever that is) for €450 incl. tax and delivery. The stand would cost anything between €150 - €250.

More feedback on the LNB would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Mark.
 

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#7
The height of most 1.8m offset dishes is nearer 1.9m. The 1183 dimensions are 194.5 x 180 cms, so there seems to be no additional area available.

I am surprised the post in the picture is a double item, with a sleeve clamp, nobody should seriously consider doing this on a diah of 1.8m as the wind will cause fracture stresses near the bolt holes after a while

As for the difference in performance claimed I can only add I have fitted a number of Prodelin dishes in the past, and they are specialists in building receive / transmit stations, so the figures on the datasheet should be as you find on site
 
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#8
Hi, the one I showed you is 379 Euro, includes the delivery charge and as far as I know also includes VAT. Your Prodeline looks like good value to me.

Nobody will be able to tell the difference between 190 and 180 cm unless they go up and measure it.

Compare it and your quote with this a hefty 600 odd Euro, which my research thus far shows as a typical mainstream price in Germany/Switzerland/Austria. One really has to search to get anything cheaper. And having said that see below.

At the moment this is one of my favourite possibilities Czech sat shop. The PL 180 is just at the 200 Euro mark...but have to add import duty and transport (i don't know yet what that is). Would probably easily come to 350 or so when all is added on. They do IRTE as well.

Liam O'Bigdish
 

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#9
Gain of Irte 1.8m is 43.5dB at 11.3 GHz
Gain of 1183 / 1186 Prodelin is 45.5dB at 11.9GHz

I can see the price of the Irte is somewhat higher as a result of the cost of the mounting system, and I believe the polarmount and locking bar are included in the price

Certainly as Bigdish says the size of the dish when looking at a 5% difference in size, what matters is the tolerance of the reflector surface and how this is able to work in focusing the signals into the feed, whilst rejecting all the suff that is not required. Most of the time this requires a dedicated feedhorn, able to mimic the performance criteria of the reflector.

Its always best to check the data given by the manufacturer of the product (not the supplier, or webmaster) to ensure what you are going to install is actually up to the job.
 

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#11
CM are no longer in production, but the Prodelin is almost identical in specification, size and performance
 

BarMoo

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#12
Now that I think the dish issue is sorted (cross fingers) - does anyone have any info on an LNB best suited for the Prodelin?

I am tempted to go by the boards recommendation of the Invacom Quad; but, Rolf did write (in a previous thread) about a C120 two element LNB (good for low band reception).

Obviously I can't go out and buy both :p And I still have to find some prices.

Have Fun,

Mark.
 

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#13
The feed clamp system for the 1183/6 is an odd one at 22mm. It usually comes with a dedicated feed but fixed for one polarity only

Ask the dealer for a C120 version of the same feed and order a C120 flange LNB of any type you like

Otherwise the Calamp Novas will fit perfectly with the outer plastic cover removed
 

BarMoo

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#14
Thanks for that :) Me thinks i'm getting the hang of it.

The Invacom C120 Quad 0.3dB LNB sounds good (GBP 89.00 on the Brymar site).

So that above plus a c120 variant of the feedhorn for the Prodelin should fit hand in glove? (gulp)?

CH I know that you would recommend a polar mount (especially for motorising) - but since I revisited the Tripoint site, they only display details for the 1183 and not the 1186 polar mount vers you spoke of. Are polar mount dishes just re-worked at the back for better motorised mounting?

I haven't a clue what a canister style is (the 1183) - apart from the fact that its nearly $200 cheaper. Whatever the dish,though, it has to be mounted on a non-penetrating roof stand and secured by some fixed brickwork (according to the rep).

We'll get there in the end. Thanks for the help CH;)

Have Fun,

Mark.
 
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#15
Hello ml...,

I am still learning about LNBs and so won't comment on that part of your thread. I can point you to the following info on non-penetrating mounts: VSAT mounts which may be informative if you haven't come accross them already. I don't know yet what they cost but I see that this supplier in Hungary recommends them for use with Prodelin.
 

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#16
@bigdish - the mount on the page is applicable only to dishes up to 1.2m though I am sure there are others available for the larger size

The post required for the 1.8m is 4" or 100mm

The 1186 is not widely advertised but your dealer should know this version from the part number alone. It is a different backplate to the 1183, with hinge and bearings. The cost of this antenna and motor , when compared to the fixed version and a suitable aftermarket gearbox, makes it an economical solution.
 
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#17
The first line of that link does say that those stands are available "for 1.0-2." (sic) diameter which is a bit misleading and the pdf specs. given are for the popular 1.2m variant. However down at the end it does also say that they are available for 1.8m dishes as well and the seller is recommending them for use with Channel Master, Gibertini and Prodelin.

The links are FYI. A quick look at any of the 1.2m stand specs will show just how big the base is (approx. 2m by 2m), and also the weight of the concrete blocks needed to support a 1.2m dish alone (8 blocks by 20Kg each). This surprised me and has made me think a second time about the best way to mount my project. From what I can see in their example photos these bases seem about 50% bigger again for the 1.8m dish.

I found the following which is the Prodelin 1183 installation manual.
I shows what the 'canister' is - basically the fitting for the top of the mounting pole.

Finally, this link shows pricing for Prodelin 1.8m antenna and mounts. Perhaps the SRM-36 stand (which is similar in principle to the VSAT stands mentioned earlier) is what your supplier is recommending for the 1183. This link describes the SRM-36 stand in greater detail and shows the size at approx 9.5' by 7'. Note that the SRM mounts are flagged as not suitable for the 1186, perhaps the bigger 10' by 10' stand is sufficient for the 1186?

Best of luck and BTW mljgmljg could you please tell me who your German supplier for the Prodelin gear is ?? as their prices seem very competitive and I would like to get a quotation from them.
 

BarMoo

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#18
BIGDISH said:
.. could you please tell me who your German supplier for the Prodelin gear is ?? as their prices seem very competitive and I would like to get a quotation from them.
http://www.tripointglobal.com/RegionalSalesContacts/reg_sales_by_territory.htm#G

Klaus Duespohl
Tel: +49-2066-20960
Fax: +49-2066-209611
E-mail: klaus.duespohl@tripointglobal.com

Many thanks for everyone 's input to the thread. I'll totter off and read all the info;)

Any news and I'll come back and let you know.

Have Fun,

Mark.
 

BarMoo

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#19
Just an update.

The Prodelin rep that we initially contacted the other week seems to have done a runner?

When/if we 'find' him, or, rather, when his skinny 'rzz gets back to the office - I will report back.

Have Fun,

Mark.
 
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#20
Few interesting things,

If you havn't bought the Invacom C120 flange LNB yet this company in Koln are selling through ebay at only 59 Euro. I bought from them before and the equipment was perfect.

Also I got this name and email from Barry Watson (Prodelin Europe) for a German rep. Mr. Marc Nowak, MNOWAK@VERTEXANT.DE

Drop him a line. I heard from him last week that they have a container with some 1.8s coming in the next couple of weeks.

I also came accross this facinating document from US company DynCorp which describes how to set up equipment for the US National Weather Service. And guess what - the dish they use is a Prodelin 1.8m canister type (the 1183). It's a long doc but there's some really intersting tips in there.

A couple of things that stuck in my mind were:

That it is really diffucult to set up without a spectrum analyzer
They talk about fixing the position of the cannister by drilling a hole through it and the pole and securing the two with a bolt after final allignment.

Info is the key...
 
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