General Inquiry

JJJ636

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#1
After looking around the forum, I didn't exactly know where to post this thread, so please forgive me if this is not the correct place.

I'm kinda fed up with cable and was searching for something else and satellite TV seems very interesting. I did a lot of shopping around for a good system setup and after doing so I narrowed my choices down to either a Dreambox, Titanium, and Technosat. I was really leaning towards the Dreambox even tho it was said that it was very difficult to setup and maintain. Then I heard some discouraging news about it would be useless to purchase any sat receiver because of Nagara2 encryption.

It's said that in a month or two, there would be a switch from Nag1 encryption to Nag2 encryption. Its also said that after the switch to Nag2 is made, these receivers will only be able to pickup a couple of foreign (I'm in the US)TV and music channels.

Some sites claim that their receivers are able to decrypt NAG2 signals, but thats disputed by Sat. techs. Now I don't know what to beleive, but what I do know is that I don't want to purchase a rceiver for $300 to $400 and its only fuctional for about a month or two.

Are there any sat. reciever capable of decrypting Nag2? Can someone please give me the scoop on Nag2 and Sat. receivers
 

Lancelot

Specialist Contributor
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#2
Hi and :-welcome to the forum.

As far as is known Nag2 is secure at the moment, but don't let that put you off entirely. Have a look HERE
and see what you think .


L.
 

JJJ636

Regular Member
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My Satellite Setup
XP Home 256RAM 1.7GHz
Currently no SAT setup
My Location
USA (Louisiana)
#3
Thanx Lancelot for your reply. Most people are really skeptikal when it comes to replying to noobs that are new to a forum, so once again I thank you.

Now as far as me understanding your reply, thats another issue. I think you give me too much credit; you overestimated my noobnessO-Ha

Seriously, exactly what are you say by giving the link in relation to Sat receivers not being able to pickup channels on Nag2?

I'm sure you're, along with other here, are expert and may become frustrated with my noobness, but please don't give up on me. I really need to understand what people say when they state these sat. receivers will be useless after Nag2 is in place?
I'll go back to that link that you provided just in case it provides the answer I'm looking for, but again, I doubt if I understand what its saying
 

closetosoton

More dishes than Sense.
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#4
i think you have to make the simple destiction here between what you might want to pay for and what you might be able to get for free.

nagra2 is secure, meaning there are no current hacks available for it. you can buy a CAM (conditional access module) and subscription cards for most encryption systems, and i guess nagra 2 is no different.

the advantage of the dreambox is normally you can get hold of images with built in softcams negating the need for hardware CAMS (that go in your CI slots).

i'd hazzard a guess at nagra 2 soft cams not been available for the dreambox yet - please someone correct me if i'm wrong. normally with these softcams, through a load of hunting around on the internet you can find keys which normally reside on your subscription card (which you'd place in your CAM) - this can be done for nagra 1 at present.

so does that make sense: your dreambox will be able to receive many FTA broadcasts, dish size, positioning permitted, but won't decrypt nagra 2 transmissions, unless you equip it with a nagra 2 capable CAM. meanwhile it will decrypt a whole load of other stuff, depending on encrytion mechanisms used and key availablilty....

cheerio,

-cts

here's an interesting technical insight i found into N2:
_http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/2/150508.html
 

JJJ636

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XP Home 256RAM 1.7GHz
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#5
Cams, Soft Cams, CI Slots


I may be in way over my head.

you can buy a CAM (conditional access module) and subscription cards for most encryption systems, and i guess nagra 2 is no different.
Do you mean a subscription from either Direct TV or Dishnetwork? If not, please explain.

the advantage of the dreambox is normally you can get hold of images with built in softcams negating the need for hardware CAMS (that go in your CI slots).


OK, now I'm lost. These soft cams do what?

so does that make sense: your dreambox will be able to receive many FTA broadcasts, dish size, positioning permitted,
I'm in the US (Louisiana) What programs are availible on FTA. HBO, Fox, TNT?

but won't decrypt nagra 2 transmissions, unless you equip it with a nagra 2 capable CAM
So how would one get a nagra 2 CAM?

So what exactly do salepersons mean when they say, "Nagra 2 upgradable?"

I aske a site if they had a receiver that would handle Nagra 2, he said yes; their receivers or Nagra 2 compatible. Is he blowing smoke up my Gloots?


This stuff really sounds confusing; Is it really difficult or is it actually not as difficult as I'm making it out to be?
 

closetosoton

More dishes than Sense.
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#6
JJJ636 said:
Cams, Soft Cams, CI Slots

I may be in way over my head.
you'rejust new to it, with patience you'll learn, there's a lot to it.


JJJ636 said:
Do you mean a subscription from either Direct TV or Dishnetwork? If not, please explain.



OK, now I'm lost. These soft cams do what?
yes, i don't know what these providers normally provide:
- probably a receiver which only works with the encryption schemes they broadcast. and an official subscription card.

however in the world of satellite TV there are many encryption systems.
CAMs - conditional acess modules, available as
- one per encryption scheme
- multicams, lots of encryption schemes in one CAM

CAMs go in your CI slots (Common Interface).
Cards go in the CAM. [although some CAMs with modified firmware don't need cards]

many receivers come with some built in encryption schemes, so you only need a card.

take bob: bob is a law obbiding citizen and wants to watch dutch TV from Canal Digital encoded in Irdeto 2.

he buys: one Irdeto 2 CAM, one subscription card from Canal Digitaal and satellite receiver with some CI slots. he puts the CAM in his box, the card inthe CAM, points his dish at Astra 1 and he's happy.

take marvin: marvin is a bit of a computer whizz kid and into all things he can get his hands on. he logs onto the internet, downloads a softcam to his dream box that can decode irdeto 2 (hyperthetical case - don't know if this is available!) hunts around the itnernet get hold of the keys normal held on the subscription card and loads these onto his receiver. hey presto marvin too is capable of watching Canal Digitaal, but he's payed nothing. naughty boy.

JJJ636 said:
I'm in the US (Louisiana) What programs are availible on FTA. HBO, Fox, TNT?
i'm sorry i'm too far away from you to check what I can tune into, but start here for US FTA channels:

h22p://www.lyngsat.com/freetv/United-States.html you'll find info about which satellite they come from which'll determin what size dish you need and which direction to point it at.

JJJ636 said:
So how would one get a nagra 2 CAM?
the iternet, your local satellite dealer, your mate bob, CAMs you can buy, its not something you have to hunt down from your underground source of bits which can't be commonly purcahsed.

JJJ636 said:
So what exactly do salepersons mean when they say, "Nagra 2 upgradable?"

I aske a site if they had a receiver that would handle Nagra 2, he said yes; their receivers or Nagra 2 compatible. Is he blowing smoke up my Gloots?
either: the receiver has embedded nagra 2, all it needs is a card, or its software is upgradeable at a later date to be able to include nagra 2 or its a bog standard DVB receiver with a nagra 2 CAM inserted into a CI slot.

JJJ636 said:
This stuff really sounds confusing; Is it really difficult or is it actually not as difficult as I'm making it out to be?
i don't think its too bad, there is A LOT of info on this forum in past posts, do have a search around. i hope this is of some help!

-cts
 

JJJ636

Regular Member
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My Satellite Setup
XP Home 256RAM 1.7GHz
Currently no SAT setup
My Location
USA (Louisiana)
#7
you'rejust new to it, with patience you'll learn, there's a lot to it.
OK.........I guess I have no other choice if I want to learn:)


CAMs go in your CI slots (Common Interface).
Cards go in the CAM. [although some CAMs with modified firmware don't need cards]
How would one know if their receiver is actually equipt with a CAM that has modified firmware? I assume these firmwares can be downloadable, So is this what one means when they use the term, "Flash" your receiver?


many receivers come with some built in encryption schemes, so you only need a card
So which is more difficult to obtain, the encryption scheme or the card?

Which of the two will most likely keep one from veiwing channels on Nag2?

he buys: one Irdeto 2 CAM, one subscription card from Canal Digitaal and satellite receiver with some CI slots. he puts the CAM in his box, the card inthe CAM, points his dish at Astra 1 and he's happy
OK, do you simply mean buy a cam and a card (One time payment), or do you mean purchase a subscription, which provides a CAM and card (monthly payments)?

hunts around the itnernet get hold of the keys normal held on the subscription card and loads these onto his receiver
When you say "load them onto his receiver", exactly where on the receiver?
Also, are you saying one doesn't need a card if if one has "keys?"

I aske where would one get a NAG2 CAM from:
the iternet, your local satellite dealer, your mate bob, CAMs you can buy, its not something you have to hunt down from your underground source of bits which can't be commonly purcahsed.
Now I must be missing something. If its that simple to receive a Nag2 Cam, then whats the hooplah about receivers not being able to pickup NAG2 channels


either: the receiver has embedded nagra 2, all it needs is a card, or its software is upgradeable at a later date to be able to include nagra 2 or its a bog standard DVB receiver with a nagra 2 CAM inserted into a CI slot.
So again, if receivers are indeed embedded with nagra 2 (which is what the dealer assured me about his receivers), then why wouldn't one be able to veiw channels that are using Nag 2 encyption?

Also, if the receiver's software is upgradable to Nag 2 at a later date, then would the next step be to get a card or CAM and keys?

I hope this is of some help!
More than you know. Your examples and explanations were brillant
 

JJJ636

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My Satellite Setup
XP Home 256RAM 1.7GHz
Currently no SAT setup
My Location
USA (Louisiana)
#8
?????????????
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
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#9
Almost any late model Nagravision CAM will work with an official Nagravision card, but some providers need a boxkey for activation of the card, or a dedicated receiver. There is no likely hack on the horizon for nagra2 as far as I know, have a read on the different forums to see what is known. You cannot learn everything in one thread, most people on this forum have been learning for years, the goalposts change almost continuously.

PS. Remember the Monty Python Sketch, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. ;)
 

JJJ636

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My Satellite Setup
XP Home 256RAM 1.7GHz
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USA (Louisiana)
#10
So what channels are currently availible on nagravision 1?
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
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Berkshire
#11
TV Cabo Hispasat 30W, but probably not for long.
 

Lancelot

Specialist Contributor
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#12
Just seen 30th September written somewhere but whether that is the start of the new batch issue, or switchover is anyones guess. My Spanish isn't up to it.

L.
 

closetosoton

More dishes than Sense.
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#13
JJJ636 said:
?????????
hey, chill out, i try not to spend my time attached to the internet at weekends and i've been away on business again, and now i'm at home with an abnormal body temperature.... i digress... i haven't given up on you!


JJJ636 said:
How would one know if their receiver is actually equipt with a CAM that has modified firmware?
since a CAM is a peice of hardware which goes into a CI slot, if you look closely at the slots, you'll see if there is any hardware in there, its as simple as that. if its a embdedded CAM it will say on the box. I for example have a samsung DSR VIA CI, which has viaccess embedded, which means i need another CAM for other encrytption systems, but if i just want the SRG swiss package which is viaccess, i just need the card.

JJJ636 said:
I assume these firmwares can be downloadable, So is this what one means when they use the term, "Flash" your receiver?
yes, downloadable from the internet and then placed onto the flash of your receiver (flash = memory where your receveirs software/operating system resides)

JJJ636 said:
So which is more difficult to obtain, the encryption scheme or the card?
erm, don't understand the question - CAMs contain encryption systems, that's why you buy them.


JJJ636 said:
Which of the two will most likely keep one from veiwing channels on Nag2?
you need both the CAM and the card, the card goes into the CAM, the CAM goes into the receiver. (unless the CAM is embedded)

JJJ636 said:
OK, do you simply mean buy a cam and a card (One time payment), or do you mean purchase a subscription, which provides a CAM and card (monthly payments)?
generally the CAM is a one time purcahse and the card is on a subscription basis. monthly/yearly it depends.

JJJ636 said:
When you say "load them onto his receiver", exactly where on the receiver?
into its flash memory. with applications downloaded from the internet with software versions downloaded from the internet, probably across a serial cable linking your PC to the receiver


JJJ636 said:
Also, are you saying one doesn't need a card if if one has "keys?"
yes, and the ability to put them into your receiver somehow. some receivers allow key input via the remote control!

JJJ636 said:
I aske where would one get a NAG2 CAM from:
lots of places, just type nagravision CAM into google... see below for a suggestion.

JJJ636 said:
Now I must be missing something. If its that simple to receive a Nag2 Cam, then whats the hooplah about receivers not being able to pickup NAG2 channels
i don't rightly know. 99 of your green american dollards will buy you a nag CAM - http://www.cyberestore.com/product_info.php?products_id=153 if i read rolf's posting correctly an official nag cam will be nag2 compatible. i would hate to suggest you're being spun a yarn, but i don't know who's making it seem harder than it is for you...


JJJ636 said:
So again, if receivers are indeed embedded with nagra 2 (which is what the dealer assured me about his receivers), then why wouldn't one be able to veiw channels that are using Nag 2 encyption?
subject to having the correct subsciption, there's no reason why you woudn't be able to view nag 2 channels (assuming you dish is the correct size and points in the right direction!), did i say otehrwise?

JJJ636 said:
Also, if the receiver's software is upgradable to Nag 2 at a later date, then would the next step be to get a card or CAM and keys?
you could buy a nag cam and official card. this is the 100% way to ensure your viewing pleasure. or get a multicam which covers nag and hunt around the itnernet for keys load them onto the cam too (in this case you don't need a card) - for the channels you're likely to be aiming for in this part of the world, pickings are few and i don't think there's much for your to decode "bob" style....

JJJ636 said:
More than you know. Your examples and explanations were brillant
good, sounds like you're learning somethings.... cts
 
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