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Horizontal and Vertical signal problem

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9
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My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#1
Hi and thanks for any help with my small problem..

i´ve fitted a new multiswitch and LNB´s on my sat equipment (had it a great number of years without any problems) and on one satellite i only receive signals on the vertical and not on the horizontal

I´ve tried changing the lnb`s and inputs/cable connections to the multiswitch ... also moving the Lnb in small incraments to one side and then the other ... all to no avail

can anyone give me a tip as to why the signals on the vertical read 90% strengh but no signal when i change to the horizontal?

1 quad at Astra 19° works perfectly the second quad at Hotbird is where the problem lies.

Equipment.. Torridal T90.. Emp centuri 9/8 multiswitch.. 2 quad Lnb´s .. connected to 2 Topfield 4100 Pvr´s and a Dbox + 1 twin lnb connected straight to my Skybox

Satellites.. Astra 19° and 28° and Hotbird.

What am i doing wrong... i have looked thro and tried to search for a similar problem but have not found any tips that might point me in the right direction.

any help is appreciated...
 

Robbo

Super Moderator
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My Satellite Setup
TM6800HD, TM1000, TM600 Linux,TM2200 motor, Channel Master 1.2m motorised, TD110 dish Meter=Satlook Micro+G2 NIT
My Location
Gravesend,Kent,UK
#2
Hi,
Are you using 'quad' or 'quattro' LNBs?
The ones you need are termed 'quattro' (Don't know what they call them in Germany)

It has four ouputs labelled:-

High band V
High band H
Low band V
Low band H.

You have to use something like this.
_http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php/info/p268_Inverto-QUATTRO-LNB-0-2dB--for-external-multiswitches-.html


A normal quad lnb won't work with a multiswich as the switching is already built into the LNB.

Apologies if you knew this already and its just the nomenclature that is different in Germany.
 
Messages
9
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#3
Robbo71 said:
Hi,
Are you using 'quad' or 'quattro' LNBs?
The ones you need are termed 'quattro' (Don't know what they call them in Germany)

It has four ouputs labelled:-

High band V
High band H
Low band V
Low band H.

You have to use this. A normal quad lnb won't work with a multiswich as the switching is already built into the LNB.

Apologies if you knew this already and its just the nomenclature that is different in Germany.
Hi Robbo,

Thanks for the answer.. i´m using both.. the EMP centauri multiswich can be used with both types of quad lnb´s. It has a dipswitch to send or not to send a 22 khz signal to the lnb.

_http://www.emp-centauri.cz/products.php?menuId=9&page=155-ap
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
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#4
I would guess that it can only be in the switching, I haven't used one of these switches, but are you sure that you have the 22Khz tones set on the correct inputs?
 
Messages
9
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#5
rolfw said:
I would guess that it can only be in the switching, I haven't used one of these switches, but are you sure that you have the 22Khz tones set on the correct inputs?
Thanks for the answer .. i´ll check the system and switches and let you know how i get on.
 

Robbo

Super Moderator
Messages
6,424
Likes
5
My Satellite Setup
TM6800HD, TM1000, TM600 Linux,TM2200 motor, Channel Master 1.2m motorised, TD110 dish Meter=Satlook Micro+G2 NIT
My Location
Gravesend,Kent,UK
#6
So you have two quads (internal switching) ?

In that case, have you got mini switches 3 & 4 both in the ON position?
so that your LNBs effectively get converted to quattros.

If so have you tried swapping the LNBs with each other to check if one is faultly?

If you get a very cheap sat finder meter, they sometimes have a indicators on them so you could check the voltage(V/H pol) and 22kHz( lo/hi band) present.

For the Horizontal inputs, B,D,F,H there should be 18V on them to select horizontal on the quads.

It doesn't look like it's possible to mix quads and quattros on the unit, you must have just one type, because switch 4 controls the polarisation for both 4-input sat inputs.
Extract from manual-
"If the switch 3 is in the ON position the multiswitch continually transmits to LNC input G and H a signal of 22kHz
which switches the corresponding LNC outputs to the High Band.
If the switch 4 is in the ON position the multiswitch continually transmits to LNC inputs C and D a signal of 22kHz
which switches the corresponding LNC outputs to the High Band.
Further the multiswitch transmits 13VDC to LNC inputs A,C,E and G and 18VDC to LNC inputs B,D,F and H.
The Quad converter then operates as Quattro converter......."
 
Messages
9
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#7
Robbo71 said:
So you have two quads (internal switching) ?

In that case have you got mini switches 3 & 4 both in the ON position?
so that your LNBs effectively get converted to quattros.

If so have you tried swapping the LNBs with each otherto check if one is faultly?

If you get a very cheap sat finder meter, they sometimes have an indicator on them so you could check the voltage and 22kHz present.

For the Horizontal inputs, B,D,F,H there should be 18V on them to select horizontal on the quads.

It doesn't look its possible to mix quads and quattros on the unit, you must have just one type, because switch 4 controls the polarisation for both 4-input sat inputs.

Thanks again Robbo..

Alot of points that you and rolfw have given me to think about... i´ve printed this out and i´ll work thro things and see if i can find the mistake.

I´m very appreciative of your support for a newbie to the forum :-thumb1
 
Messages
9
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#8
I decided to work thro the points you made and ended up doing everything from the beginning.. everything apart.. then doing the job again.. the following has happened which lets me think that the dish alignment might not be so good as i thought..

I can now receive signals on the verticle and horizontal :) but not all of them.. Astra .. i receive all V+H signals but again on Hotbird not all of them.

Hotbird ..

x= no signal

12588 v ok but poor signal strength
12577 h x
12596 v x
12616 h ok but poor signal strenght
12635 v x
12654 h x
12731 v ok, 11278 v ok,11488 h ok, 10971 h ok, 11117 v ok, 11393 v ok
11541 v ok, 11355 v ok,11677 h ok, 11411 h ok, 11954 h ok 11594 h x, 11597 v x, 12480 v x, 11295 h ok,11470 v ok, 11533 v x, 12465 v x,12500 v x, 12226 h x, 12092 v x...

i have a complete list of frequencies that work and dont work... the list above is an example..

am i correct in assuming that the dish/lnb allignment is still off?

thanks for any help.. (again) :-worship :)

methinks that it looks like another dayout on the roof for me :)
 

rolfw

Believe it when I see it Admin.
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#9
The Torroidal 90cm should give you great signal strength on both satellites when setup properly, but they are not the easiest dishes to set up. Have you tilted the dish to the appropriate number of degrees?
 
Messages
9
Likes
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My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#10
rolfw said:
The Torroidal 90cm should give you great signal strength on both satellites when setup properly, but they are not the easiest dishes to set up. Have you tilted the dish to the appropriate number of degrees?
Checked out the alignment yesterday.. the azimuth is 165, 46° from the verticle and tilted about 17° from the horizontal The position of my house is use which is 54.4°N, 10.05°E


Yesterday ..Sunday.. i triedsmall adjustments but nothing seemed to help.. so as a last chance i´ve only a half day to work on Wednesday and i´ll check and do everything one last time and if it doesn´t work i´ll see if i can find a company in Kiel that have experience in a torridal dish alignment.
 
Messages
9
Likes
0
My Satellite Setup
Torridal T90
2 Topfield 4100 PVR`s (twin)
1 Galaxis receiver
1 D box Humax
1 Sky PVR (twin)
2 quad Lnb´s
1Twin Lnb
1 EMP Centauri 9/8 Multiswitch
My Location
Kiel Germany
#11
rolfw said:
I would guess that it can only be in the switching, I haven't used one of these switches, but are you sure that you have the 22Khz tones set on the correct inputs?
Spot on.. Rolfw

In the end i had to have a company come and have a look at my setup.. I spoke to 3 companies before one came because i wanted a company that knew how to setup a Toridal dish....

Using their equipment they told me that the signals from all three satellites were optimal and they wouldn´t change anything on the setup.. they quickly found out that the switching was faulty .. the 22kHz signal was not working properly.. they replaced the multiswitch and eveything was working normally.. :) for about 15 minutes work i ahd to pay €40 which was worth it..

Thanks for your advice... Rolfw and Robbo71... :-thumb1
 

rolfw

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#12
Glad you got it sorted. :)

More interesting is that it wouldn't have mattered what you did, as it was a faulty unit, this can cause a lot of frustration, I guess this is why I prefer standard multiswitches, less to go wrong. :)