I hope this is the best section for this, as the query(s) are interconnected

[Alan22]

Hi all, hope I get this right for you, messed with stuff all my life nearly (not hardcore just complex), so I will start with the main query I am after some help with, but more will follow as I get each bit set up, so here goes.

I have an upgraded Sky dish (60cm IIRC) and a quad LNB feeding a Sky+ HD box (DRX890-C), as well as a FreeSat UHD-4X 2TB box, I moved away from Sky because they refused to help saying they couldn't find my contract, the fact I was with them from the day of launch meant nothing to them, I say this to explain that I am only using it for the free service (noted in the small print here I think I saw), I have 2 leads connecting to this box (well I did), and I had another 2 leads going to the 4K box, Sky is\was 2 single lines, the 4K box is\was a shotgun affair giving a twin feed, I won't complicate things further with other devices here as they won't be of any use currently.

Now the 4K box decided to spit the dummy one day, there was\are known issues with this box, as initially we wondered if the box had died, as 1 feed would not record, it kept skipping and reporting errors almost constantly, and there was a few channels that had vanished, as in absolutely no service or even recognition of the channel, e.g. the SD BBC 1 disappeared, and would only display on another channel, and it would be the HD version of it, I can't recall them all, but there were a few doing this, further we got the stutter, where it repeats the first 3 or 4 seconds of the program once you hit play, it took quite some time and waiting experimenting and eventually found out these are known bugs to the makers, and as best I can see all issues have been addressed just leaving the stutter to be sorted, they are doing these via auto updates.

That's the hardware and beginning of the issue to get you up to speed, now the Sky box was working fine, good signal on both leads, but 1 lead on the 4K box showed no signal at all, so I took 1 lead from the Sky box, and fed it to the 4K box, this gave it the 2 feeds again, But, true to fashion that didn't last long before it went again, and then the other half of the shotgun cable also stopped getting a signal, so what I did was rewire the connectors, thinking they may be suffering from too much interference, and initially this gave a result, but again the result was short lived, repeated 4 or 5 times but that was futile, it was at this time I found out the box had bugs, but I don't know if there were any other issues.

So in desperation of my sanity (not that I have much of that) I took the only working lead, it was 1 of the 2 original Sky leads, with the 2nd lead having died as well, now some time back I got a splitter, as I have a lot of kit, but it didn't work as I was hoping back then, by chance I found it while trying to find other bits, and took a gamble on using the only working lead to that, then feed the 2 leads out into the 4K box, and it worked, the 4K box is now fully functional again, from a single source through a splitter to get the 2 feeds it needs to utilise the mutli recording etc, but this has left me with a non working Sky box, because I have no working feed to it, total of 4 lines coming in but only 1 is getting a signal.

That is a pretty comprehensive breakdown of what and how things happened, in the hope it shows a possible cause or anything that may offer any clues, so ultimately I'd like to get 4 working live feeds again, so I can become fully functional again, the question is How?

I've been retired disabled for longer than some of you have probably been alive, so my ability is limited, and energy is an extremely valuable commodity to me these days, so the question is where do I start, my guess is the more advanced users will suggest putting a meter on the dish and see if the feeds are working, I agree a very sensible 1st call, but I don't know where my meter is and will struggle up a ladder, so wondering if there is an easier check I can do first.

0ne thing that has made me wonder is about the F Connectors, I can't give an exact type (I think there is more than 1 of the same design), but the simplest description if it's enough, is the old Sky type silver with a knurled shank and screw thread type fixing that screws down onto the actual cable after it has been pared back (I'm aware of earthing etc), and because it is so hard for me to do, and I have to wonder if this is causing the cable to fail X distance down from it due to the twisting required to connect it, to that end I am wondering if cutting it some way back and using the newer style plugs may be a solution?

I have checked visually down the whole lines for sabotage and they are intact, then there is the LNB, things don't last forever, unfortunately, so I also wonder about the chances that this is failing, but whatever way I go will mean expense and energy, and I have very little of either lol, so I'm hoping someone notices something I have not tried or similar?

 

[ozumo]

The connectors you are talking about are called F-connectors. One thing to check is to be absolutely sure none of the outer braid is in contact with the central core. If there are no shorts it does sound like the LNB is on its way out. There could also be moisture getting into the cable.

It is odd the Freesat box appears to work with a splitter. I suspect you may find that only certain combinations of channels work when recording.

 

[rolfw]

There's a lot of information there and can't work out whether the Sky box still works if the leads are reconnected.

 

[Alan22]

The connectors you are talking about are called F-connectors. One thing to check is to be absolutely sure none of the outer braid is in contact with the central core. If there are no shorts it does sound like the LNB is on its way out. There could also be moisture getting into the cable.

It is odd the Freesat box appears to work with a splitter. I suspect you may find that only certain combinations of channels work when recording.

Yes I know they are called F Connectors, what I was unsure of is if there were size variations, I'm sure there are, due to some being easier than others with the different sized cables, that was my hesitation over the name, as newer types at least have further 'Code' names specifying a difference between them, e.g. RG-6 or RG-59, so I wasn't sure if my type had name variants as well, to maybe specify size, hence my description etc, as some are possibly 1st gen connectors, and others are newer, but same style different size, and there is no earth issue, been messing with coax for near 5 decades, so have a reasonable awareness of that, but I understand the need to check.

As to the splitter, just to clarify, the single working feed is used as the source for the splitter, then 2 cables from the splitter both go into the 4K box, making it fully functional having 2 strong signals, no missing channels or issues other than the remaining bug awaiting a further firmware update from the makers to resolve the last of the known issues with the box.

I have been told many times that I won't be able to numerous things, but that's what I do, I figure out ways around it, like when a Sky engineer installing their service tried and failed to set up the remote to control the TV as well, took me maybe 10 minutes and got it working, totally blew my mates away lol.

But you think the LNB could be behind this?
We have good signal so it doesn't need to compensate for that directly, but it's been so long since I touched it I can't be sure what benefits there are for using any specific features, as there may be a benefit to getting a specific unit, as there are a lot more things around today than there used to be, I was toying with the idea of motorising my dish to use with my Pace box (now retired lol), but the expense didn't seem worth it in my case, so is there a quad LNB that is todays go to solution?

But I know it's more work, but would it be wise to use newer connectors these days (inside and\or outside)?
And would a drop down shield from the LNB protect the connections(?), last time I messed around I used Amalgam tape, but when I fitted this quad one I was told they don't do that anymore, is this still an area needing attention?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Alan22]

Just saw the new reply, yes the Sky box works fine, but as it's the free service the recording etc does not work which is standard I believe, the problem is that out of the 4 leads coming from the dish, only 1 lead appears to have any signal, but to take away a lead from the 4K box to use with the Sky box would cost me dearly, you don't mess with the wife's recordings and schedules lol, but all the boxers are working fine (apart from the afore mentioned stutter), the issue is the feed, which has to be either a cable fault (hence wondering about the connectors point above), where screwing the connectors on has caused say a fracture spiral (for want of a better term), or it's the LNB, knowing my luck it will be both lol.

 

[ozumo]

The code names you mention relate to the cable type, which may be printed on the outer sheath of the cable. If you can measure the diameter of the cable you can find F-connectors of the same size, in general 7mm should fit the cable used in Sky installations unless the cables are the 'shotgun' type (two cables joined together) where smaller connectors are required. Unless the connectors are corroded they should be fine to reuse.

If there is sufficient cable there's no harm in cutting some off and attaching a new connector.

The LNB which would replace your existing one will depend in the age of the dish, a photo of the current LNB and dish will help us advise which is the correct type.

Generally I find a pull down cover to be sufficient, however for a permanent installation tape would add peace of mind as long is it is installed correctly.

RE the splitter, are you able to record BBC One HD and Sky News simultaneously?

 

[PaulR]

Although supposedly all made to the same physical dimensions there are often fractions of a millimetre difference in outside diameter, usually because of the thickness of the outer plastic cover. The ratio of sizes internal to that are all dependant on the diameter of the centre wire. The 100 in WF100 (and PH100, etc) means it is 1mm in diameter. In order to present a 50 ohm impedance the diameter of the braid and metal sheath has to be a fixed ratio away from the centre wire. Different insulation materials between the centre and the braid & sheath can vary this ratio a little but nowadays most insulation is semi-airspaced foam for minimum loss so will be the same in practice.

The F-plugs also seem to come with fractional differences to accommodate different overall outside dimensions but whether this is deliberate or just manufacturing tolerances I don't know. Certainly, in the field I have sometimes had to add a little PVC tape ensure that the plug isn't loose. Or try to ensure that the copper sheath either doesn't flake away or is underneath the braid if the fit is loose.

Sometimes I have to judiciously shave a little off the outside cable cover. Basically, whatever is needed to get a tight grip between the plug and the cable.

This is occurs on both screw-on plugs and compression type plugs. Probably crimp type as well although I've never used them.

 

[Alan22]

Sorry to of taken so long, it has to be a good day for me to do such things, and then recovery time as it takes all I have to do things now, which will only ever get worse, but the code names were mainly as an example of my understanding, I know there are several types of cable out there, but I couldn't tell you the difference between them, other than the fact that the F Connectors I have, which I have 2 sizes of them, and the cable is seriously tight to screw onto some cables, the worst ones that kill me are the Virgin cables.

I probably have 3 different types of cable, but I can't tell you much about them, and I don't have a micrometre or similar to get the size, and the cables go back 28 years, so back then it would have been a basic coax cable, I don't know at what point they started to factor in for loss and frequency targeting the specific signals as they do now, as opposed to normal coax, 2 of the leads are this type that feed\fed the Sky box when I had Sky, then as a free usage after dropping them.

Then the others are much newer, with Shotgun cable feeding the 4K box, and Virgin cable that I fed under the floor, this is the near impossible cable to use the screw type connectors, no doubt why they use these new style (well new as compared to the old silver F Connector ones), which is why I wondered about these, as the pressure I had to use to do them up took all I had (my fine motor skills are shot), initial reconnections actually worked, but only for a very short time, eventually only 1 of the original Sky leads was supplying a feed, the rest have no signal.

I can't answer about the recordings yet, my life is at risk if I go near her box lol, although we would never tape these channels, but I will get the wife to give it a test a bit later when she sits down, and will let you know the result, but I attach a few pic's of the various views to get a better all round picture of it, don't be misled by the streaky looking affect on the dish, we get the extreme sun all day, so that was pitching on the dish at the time I took the pictures, so the streaks are refraction from the sunlight as opposed to being present on the dish just so you know.

Thanks for the reply's guy's.

 

[ozumo]

Any 40mm universal quad LNB will fit that dish. The Virgin cable is possibly WF100, 7mm F-connectors should fit, though I would suggest buying a few different types to see which best suits the cable. The type with a rubber ring within the connector are more difficult to attach to the socket by hand.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Direct burial (Virgin) cable is not WF100.

The last one I saw was CTFC-T10 (by Amphenol ?) and requires very careful cutting back to a work with a standard F -connector

Good news it is spec'd to 3GHz.

 

[Alan22]

Yeah Virgin is definitely thick\stiff cable, and they use the newer style fixings (attached), it's French by the look of it saying Cabelcon 4.9, but any suggestions re: connectors(?), mainly would the compression ones or the crimping ones be better?

I have a crimper for ethernet and phone, but I don't think it would fit these newer connectors, so if this one is better then I will have to get this as well, all I know is my hands can't cope with the screw type these days one cable now and then is one thing, but I'd be looking at at least 8 connections doing this, handling each at least twice, so 16 + screw threads I would have no fingers left, and that's before I move onto the TV that I have just got, that has 2 satellite connectors as well which will be my next task once I figure out what to use given 1 fitting is half the size of the other, then I can have the Sky box powered off during the day to save on power, and just use it at night when I'm in bed, but the 4 feeds is the first job.

Thanks for the info guys, off to order the LNB now.

*edit
Forgot the picture.

 

[Alan22]

I went to get the LNB and hit a wall, well not a wall, but an option I know nothing about, basically as I went down the list it threw me, 4K, I have recently got a 4K TV (Samsung QE50QN94A), as mentioned above it also has 2 x F Connector ports, so it can have satellite as well as terrestrial, so there is a wide price spread on these, the following one was; "LNB Opticum LQP-04H Quad 4k UHD 40mm Sky Freesat NC+ Cyfrowy Polsat" for just over £20.

Logic says this (at least a 4K one) would be the one that would benefit me the most, but I didn't know these existed so I just don't have a clue, hence this further query, or is it a case of over hype to get people buying something no better than something half the price?
I don't think it is with this, but you must of seen such things over time.

 

[rolfw]

It's all sales bollocks, the LNB provides signal for the receiver, at that stage it isn't SD, HD, 4K or any other type of resolution, it's just a signal which the digital receiver uses to receive broadcasts, the receiver then can output whatever screen resolution it's capable of.

 

[ozumo]

If there's no sign of corrosion or water ingress there's no reason why the connectors at the LNB end of the cable can't be left on and reused.

 

[Alan22]

I don't know how that became a link, I certainly didn't do or use anything to make it a link, I just copied and pasted the plain text from the page and paste that, only intending to be an example of what many are seeming to be marketing as, I can only guess that it's been automatically picked up somehow, so sorry for that.

I did wonder about the 4K LNB being BS, seen the tactic used many times in my life, but like most such times it does appear a logical step in tech, so I guess many will get caught out, I'm on the ball normally, which is why my Spidey senses started twitching at this, but if it hadn't of been for your help, I probably would have gone for it, so Thanks for that.

As to the connectors I may take the chance of them being OK (assuming the LNB is the sole issue), I just hope that is true, or it will double the work involved lol, so fingers crossed lol, Thanks.

 

[Alan22]

Right I finally got the delivery of the new LNB (Many Thanks for that guidance), and feeling mixed up, I installed it yesterday and the leap of faith paid off, as it could only be a couple of things, and as I took it off the arm, and started to undo the cables, and it killed me, how the hell I never collapsed I don't know, anyway the first 2 cables unscrewed fine, but then another cable came straight out when removing another, and the last one was seized so I figured just chop it off rather than being in more pain than I was already in.

I cut off 2" to get back to a cleaner state, fixed up the 'new' F Connectors, and 1 shotgun cable was a poor fit, so I will have to re fix it with better connectors, and after seeing what came down will use amalgam tape as well, because that was an issue with 2 leads, but it certainly explains the degrading quality we were getting on a downhill slide with interference, and the complete collapse that brought me in search of help, but all I can say is anyone buying an LNB, get one that does Not have inline connections, it makes sense now as to why multi connection are dog legged, it was hell fixing them as I couldn't grip them with a tool, and it killed my fingers.

So 2 questions here, is there a specific (brand\make?) of F Connector that is better for connecting the dish?
And if there is such a thing as a waterproof\sealed Connector that could counter the need of Amalgam tape?
I have a crimper for for phone and LAN connectors, but I think I'd be right in saying these newer style F Connector fittings won't work(?), in which case I would need to get another crimper(?), if so any recommendations there?

Now for the big question, I say big because I am stumped on how to achieve this, I can't figure what has changed since the last time I did it, and it was easy back then, I need to retune the box, as though it's a new installation to get the recent channel changes updated, all I can find is a manual retune for individual channels, which I knew, but I can't see a single thing to do with a retune like you would in any such device.

I have a Sky+ HD box, DRX890-C, I have gone through every setting in there, I have gone through the manual and found nothing that can help, I have searched the web and tried the 'hidden' menu's (0, 0, 1 and 4, 0, 1) to no avail, the most obvious options do nothing, e.g. Reset and New Install, Rebuild, nothing, both say completed but nothing changes?

Have I totally lost the plot or what(?), it never used to be this hard to tune Sky channels lol, I attach screenshots to show what I see as options, any suggestions?

 

[ozumo]

The channel list should update itself, unplugging the power and plugging it back in should will also update the EPG. Looks like there is signal as that appears to be a channel showing in the top corner. In settings > signal what do the strength and quality bars show?

 

[Alan22]

Ah right, I swear in the past (going way back to when they first launched up until I cancelled them) that a simple retune was all it ever needed, as you normally get the reminders come up saying retune for new or changed channels to be updated, maybe they have updated the system since I last toyed with it maybe(?), anyway if that's automatic now, then that bit becomes a moot point, but as the preview shows it's working and doing well, other than the other point mentioned.

As to signal it's a mix, one was really strong both signal and quality, the other was not quite as good a signal, with zero quality, initially at least, now it's up to the same as the other feed, which I am putting down to thermal movement and a poor fitting connector, which is the other part I mentioned above with any suggestions re this, and the crimper point, as I probably need this as well as the new connectors, more so if they are weather tight avoiding the need for amalgam tape.

 

[ozumo]

As far as I remember Sky Digital boxes have never required to be manually tuned. I've only ever used WF100 cable and F-connectors, others may be able to comment on the ease of installation of compression or crimp-on connectors.

 

[Alan22]

Well ever since I became ill, memory has shrunk to an attention span of a goldfish, so it's quite possible I'm remembering our other boxes and mixing them up, but when I signed up with Sky when they launched over 3 decades ago, this is when they had 2 film channels, and one was limited hours, so things have massively changed since then lol, Thanks for the info.