Inverto black ultra

[jpsr]

I received my inverto black ultra today, which would replace my channel master feedhorn with inveryo 0.3db lnb on my 1m gibertini.

I put it on and skewed the lnb etc, but could not get it as good as my last lnb, which was a shock as i have heard great things on here and everywhere else about it.

I was getting the same signal quality on some sats, with a few db's higher on some channels, but on some other sats there was a huge drop in quality, like astra 2, which i had at 98% drop to 54%, which was strange.

After trying to adjust for a while i just gave up and put my old lnb back on which is by far the best lnb i have tryed on my dish.

I wanted the black ultra to pull in a few more db's on 26e, which it only done on mtv arabia.

 

[sonnetpete]

I'm assuming this is on your motorised dish? In which case the LNB doesn't require skewing but should be vertical as the motor applies the skew when it rotates the motor stub. The Ultra responds well to being peaked up to the dish focus, when I had one on my 1M Gibi it was best positioned with the clamp centered in the middle of the Inverto sticker.

It won't give you an increase across the board, mainly just your fringe TP's. However, it shouldn't drop Astra down that far.

 

[hexah]

You may need to let it warm up a bit.

In theory it should just work or not, but I have had a couple of LNBs over the years which improved the quality % after a few hours of working.

Leave it to soak.

 

[futumsch]

Did you try adjusting the Black Ultra 'in and out' of the LNB holder for maximum signal? I originally had Inverto 0.2 twin, but I found it had a small 'neck' there was only a cm or so of adjustment. Even without the LNB holder on the dish and moving the 0.2 twin around the focus by hand, I couldn't match the Black Ultra signal. The Black Ultra has got a longer 'neck' (can't think of the technical term) and I managed to get an extra 40% signal strength on the Black Ultra compared to the 0.2 twin.
Is your Inverto 0.3 a C120 flange type?



Edit: What Sonnetpete said..

 

[BGPv4]

Anyone replaced their C120/feedhorn combo with the Black Ultra? do some tweaking on one sat and then report back the difference.

A dealer i talked to yesterday told me he had a customer who stubbornly insisted that he wanted the CM feedhorn to his dish, the dealer installed the Black Ultra and it actually performed better than the feed/LNB combo.

I have not seen with my own eyes so i don't trust anyone about this but it would be nice with more reports.

 

[PaulR]

If your dish is prime focus then you need a LNB/feedhorn combination for this. It sounds like you have replaced these with an LNBF (LNB with built-in feedhorn) and AFAIK these are optimised for off-set dishes.

 

[BGPv4]

I'm assuming this is on your motorised dish? In which case the LNB doesn't require skewing but should be vertical as the motor applies the skew when it rotates the motor stub. .

In theory that is true but in practice not true as the Astra satellite got different skew than the rest so it doesn't follow the pattern, what i do is maximize skew on Astra 2D and then let it be, if you adjust skew for Hotbird for example you will not get right skew for Astra 2D

 

[BGPv4]

If your dish is prime focus then you need a LNB/feedhorn combination for this. It sounds like you have replaced these with an LNBF (LNB with built-in feedhorn) and AFAIK these are optimised for off-set dishes.

No he says he use it on his 1m Gibertini which is a offset dish

 

[sonnetpete]

I don't know if this will help, but when I bought my 1.2M Laminas, I also got a Laminas feedhorn and C120 LNB. I tried that combo, a Smart Titanium and then an Inverto Black Ultra on the dish. The C120 and feedhorn produced the worst results, then the Smart, with the Black Ultra best.

I don't think that feedhorn is actually matched to that particular dish and not really sure whether a feedhorn/C120 pairing works well on an offset dish. From memory I think the feedhorn/C120 was giving results matching or in some cases a little inferior to those I got from my 1M Gibertini and Black Ultra.

 

[BGPv4]

I don't know if this will help, but when I bought my 1.2M Laminas, I also got a Laminas feedhorn and C120 LNB. I tried that combo, a Smart Titanium and then an Inverto Black Ultra on the dish. The C120 and feedhorn produced the worst results, then the Smart, with the Black Ultra best.

I don't think that feedhorn is actually matched to that particular dish and not really sure whether a feedhorn/C120 pairing works well on an offset dish. From memory I think the feedhorn/C120 was giving results matching or in some cases a little inferior to those I got from my 1M Gibertini and Black Ultra.

Hello, Ponny did test Laminas 120cm with both Laminas feedhorn and Channel Master feedhorn and he got better results with CM feedhorn than Laminas so it might be worth a try for you, his result was published on dxtv

 

[sonnetpete]

Well, it may be better, and worth trying but I have reservations as to whether it will beat the Black Ultra.

I see your point about skewing the LNB for Astra 2 and it's probably worth doing for your location. But as there is such a strong signal nearer to the centre of the footprint, if I did alter the skew I may lose fringe T/P's on Nilesat.

 

[nelson_b]

hi -
in my experiments with l.n.b.,s and channel master offset dishes -- i,v found that the c120 and matched feedhorn is an advantage over standard l.n.b,s on the channel master 1.8 metre -- even over the inverto black ultra --

but on 1.2 metre and 1 metre channel masters - the " inverto black ultra" l.n.b. will easily outperform the inverto C120 / matched feed combination

this is not bound to be the case on all brands of dish though -- but i suspect it is on most

@- "jpsr" -- check all positions in the l.n.b. holder -- ie - pushed full forward or full back - or somewhere in between to find the best one --

i,v also found that the best skew setting certainly varies between satellites on a motorised system -- particularly with some of the sensitive l.n.b,s --
so worth having a good play around -- good luck --

cheers nelson.b .

 

[aceb]

I've got a 1m Gibby and Black Ultra combo so here's my take on it.

Swapping it from a Best 0.1dB it equalled or bettered the performance of the Best but only after some tweaking of the focal point. I took various readings from a number of sats at different lengths and there is a lot of adjustment on the B.U. What I found was no clear hotspot for all satellites, most favoured a certain distance apart from 25.5 and 26E which preferred a difference of about 10mm in the LNB position. 7W was another one that peaked at a slightly different distance but most other stuff from 45E-61W peaks at the same place. My reference on 26E was BBC World, I've settled for a signal of 38% using my SS2 but I know it is capable of 56% if I adjust the LNB out.

I can only put the differences down to the slightly unusual F/D ratio of the Gibby or the possibility that the reflector is slightly warped although I did string it to check. I'm pleased with the performance of mine now it's done but it did take a few hours to peak it up, not something I'd be wanting to do in this weather!

 

[hexah]

That's the advantage of having a dish farm or a toroidal type dish, you can maximize for each satellite. With the higher conversion gain of the Inverto Black Ultra and Inverto Black Premium, any insertion loss through switches is now insignificant.

 

[BGPv4]

Well, it may be better, and worth trying but I have reservations as to whether it will beat the Black Ultra.

I see your point about skewing the LNB for Astra 2 and it's probably worth doing for your location. But as there is such a strong signal nearer to the centre of the footprint, if I did alter the skew I may lose fringe T/P's on Nilesat.

Yes you have strong Astra2D in your location so your best bet would be to optimize skew for Nilesat if that's your favorite sat.

 

[BGPv4]

That's the advantage of having a dish farm or a toroidal type dish, you can maximize for each satellite. With the higher conversion gain of the Inverto Black Ultra and Inverto Black Premium, any insertion loss through switches is now insignificant.

Yes of course but a Toroidal T90 performs like a good 70cm dish and worse the further out you come, it's not even a option to use a dish like that for feedhunters who looks for weak signals all the time, you need a good quality 120cm dish at least if you are serious feedhunter.

 

[hexah]

The Maximum T85 performs like a 70cm, the Wave Frontier T90 is like a 90cm, both are larger than those figures suggest.

Serious feed hunting really requires 1.5m or larger, preferably 2m or above, due to the numbers of weak transponders. Still lots of transmissions that require 4-5m dishes, especially on C band.

 

[hexah]

I put it on and skewed the lnb etc, but could not get it as good as my last lnb, which was a shock as i have heard great things on here and everywhere else about it.

If you still are not having any luck, send it back and get a replacement. Lots of happy people with 1m dishes can't be wrong. It may be the odd bad one.

 

[BGPv4]

The Maximum T85 performs like a 70cm, the Wave Frontier T90 is like a 90cm, both are larger than those figures suggest.

Serious feed hunting really requires 1.5m or larger, preferably 2m or above, due to the numbers of weak transponders. Still lots of transmissions that require 4-5m dishes, especially on C band.

The T90 does not perform like a 90cm dish, don't trust what they say in papers, i have had two T90's and the last one i benched agains a Triax TD64 which is 64cm and the T90 and Triax performed the same with the LNB in center of T90.

T90 is not a good dish, also the material is so thin that the dish warp after a while and not talk about all rust you get.

 

[BGPv4]

If you still are not having any luck, send it back and get a replacement. Lots of happy people with 1m dishes can't be wrong. It may be the odd bad one.

All LNBs differ from the same product line, there are no guarantees that each and every LNB should perform to a standard, some samples are worse, some are better, no reason for return, they will only ignore it anyway.

I have a few Red Classics C120 from Inverto here and 2 of them are much better than the other 4 i have.