Is it true that new Astra1N channels are to move again in late 2012/2013?

[JMW]

Hi

I read something the other day stating that in 2013 channel reception will change again for the Costa Blanca. That Astra 1N will be moved to 19.2E when astra 2E and 2F are launched in late 2012 and 2013 and that we will probably be worse off than we were before when everything was on 2D - meaning that we will require a very large dish when this happens.

Anyone heard anything relating to this?

Thanks

 

[timo_w2s]

Yes, that has always been the case, 1N is temporarily at 28.2E and is not using a true "UK beam." (The clue is in the name - Astra 1 series tend to be located at 19.2E). There are plenty of threads here that mention this.

 

[JMW]

Thanks, I will wait and see what happens!!

 

[strs65]

Hi

I read something the other day stating that in 2013 channel reception will change again for the Costa Blanca. That Astra 1N will be moved to 19.2E when astra 2E and 2F are launched in late 2012 and 2013 and that we will probably be worse off than we were before when everything was on 2D - meaning that we will require a very large dish when this happens.

Anyone heard anything relating to this?

Thanks

According to the "Satellite Monitor 2011" of SES (pages 40, 41), odds (of easy reception) do not look promising, at all!

_http://www.ses.com/11206020/Satellite_Monitor_2011.pdf

 

[joddle]

Its all pretty unknown - I had been toying with the idea of dropping my re-broadcast system in Javea and going back onto a 1.2M dish BUT if its only going to last a few months then I would then have no option but to go back to the rebreoadcaster system and that may cost me more in terms of a new installation fee (assuming they remove the old system if I cancel soon _ AND assuming they can get a decent signal!) - what are others in the area doing? In Valencia I am not about to ditch my 2.4M dish and am hoping I will still be able to get something after the switch - unsettling eh?

ALSO I note that the footprint maps don't really tell the full story regarding possible reception - quoting from another forum the following comment has been made " the footprint is showing field strength. And just like astra did with the 1N footprint, by simply not showing the field strength over the continent they think they can fool ppl (and rights holders?) into thinking the footprint is narrow. But the 55 dbW in northern france is still incredibly strong. However the shape is a bit odd, so it may be more restricted. We'll just have to wait and see!"

 

[Juan69]

Just when I thought the water was lovely. I shouldn´t have counted my chickens.

 

[Satellite74]

quoting from another forum the following comment has been made " the footprint is showing field strength. And just like astra did with the 1N footprint, by simply not showing the field strength over the continent they think they can fool ppl (and rights holders?) into thinking the footprint is narrow. But the 55 dbW in northern france is still incredibly strong. However the shape is a bit odd, so it may be more restricted. We'll just have to wait and see!"

We have to take into account though that satellite engineering and design have come a long way since the early 2000s when 2D was state of the art. And 1N isn't really relevant in predicting the tightness of 2F's beam, except for the fact that many people on the edge of fringe reception areas have complained that the signal often drops off sharply within just a few dozen miles.

Yes, the newly publicised map of 2F's future UK spot beam doesn't show what happens beyond those 55 dBW. But you simply can't expect overspill to be as wide and strong as on 2D.

The shape by the way isn't odd. It is just based on a different map projection technique than the ones we are all used to.

 

[archive10]

Yes, that has always been the case, 1N is temporarily at 28.2E and is not using a true "UK beam." (The clue is in the name - Astra 1 series tend to be located at 19.2E). There are plenty of threads here that mention this.

That I have actually beenwondering about... if the beam used for the uk channels are not for the uk, what is for?
Even when placed at 19.2 it would be pointing roughly in the same direction, but theres not many looking at it from the british isles...
Unless of course its on a steerable reflector. But then its rather wide beamed for a spot, isn't it?
And if iremember from other posts, theres the ibearian bulge, which doesnt make sense on a steerable spot unless it has dynamic reflector shaping.???

Any ideas?

 

[Huevos]

Thanks, I will wait and see what happens!!

You'll be waiting a while because 2F is to replace transponders on 2A/B. 1N is not going to be released until 2E or maybe 2G is in position. All three are Spacebus E3000 with the same size aerial as the current satellite so all though there maybe be some slight beam reshaping compared to 1N the laws of physics still apply.

Before 1N was switched on the pessimists were out in force (until they were proved wrong) and now they are out in force on 2E/F/G. Some are even worse. They are clearly just on a wind up to upset expats.

Anyway here is the thing, there is not currently one satellite where the intended audience is less than 1.5º away that I cannot receive whether transmitted on a spot beam or not. And most of them I can get on the 90cm dish.

So you can either listen to the pessimists and wind-up merchants or you can ponder over this:

Satellite A (1N): 105W transponders and 2.7m aerial.
Satellite B (2F) 105W transponders and 2.7m aerial with tweaks to optimise it for UK shape.​

If satellite A returns 10dB SNR (lots of rain margin) on a 90cm dish, even with a few tweaks (and that is all they are; nothing major) what could make anyone believe that satellite B will be so difficult to receive. And even if it does only last 2 years that is going to save 480€ on the rebroadcast sub.

 

[strs65]

Before 1N was switched on the pessimists were out in force (until they were proved wrong) and now they are out in force on 2E/F/G. Some are even worse. They are clearly just on a wind up to upset expats.

Maybe they were proved wrong for West Europe, Spain, etc, but they were not proved wrong at all for southeast Europe, where reception of the UK beam is clearly much more difficult and worse than Astra's 1D. Even with huge dishes. So everything depends on one's point (and location) of view...

 

[Huevos]

Maybe they were proved wrong for West Europe, Spain, etc, but they were not proved wrong at all for southeast Europe, where reception of the UK beam is clearly much more difficult and worse than Astra's 1D. Even with huge dishes. So everything depends on one's point (and location) of view...

The OP's question is about Costa Blanca, Spain, not Greece or south east Europe. Spain is 1.5º or less off axis (depending where you live). Greece is 4º off axis. If you read the eastern Europe thread you will see there is no problem for anyone within the 1.5º line.

 

[Juan69]

I like your spirit. thus your name Huevos. Big pair I guess. LOL.

 

[strs65]

Well, I guess Astra's 1D beam was the same, but it was receivable in Rhodes and Cyprus with 2.4m (even in Israel I think by Solly). As far as I know, Astra's 1N UK beam is not receivable in those locations with those dishes anymore, so clearly it is worse. Even the pan european beams of 2E/2F/2G look worse for SE Europe (ok, one cannot really tell until they are active, just by the look of them).

The OP's question is about Spain (Costa Blanca) not Greece or south east Europe.

Actually this is irrelevant.

 

[Huevos]

Well, I guess Astra's 1D beam was the same, but it was receivable in Rhodes and Cyprus with 2.4m (even in Israel I think by Solly).

I'm sure you mean 2D, not 1D. But anyway that is a completely different bird. It only had a 2m antenna. It never had a true spot beam, it just had cold spots and nulls, but in general it illuminated most parts of Europe, from the Canaries to Cyprus, both of which are 4º off axis.

 

[strs65]

Yes, 2D of course!

 

[ralphmagno]

hello, it is hare to know for sure untill its up and running.
the 2f map i saw posted one looked bad for europe.
the other beam looked great.
it could be that all the bbc and itv will be gone in naples again and cypress will be back up and running again.
all we can do is guess for now.
ralph

 

[joddle]

You'll be waiting a while because 2F is to replace transponders on 2A/B. 1N is not going to be released until 2E or maybe 2G is in position. All three are Spacebus E3000 with the same size aerial as the current satellite so all though there maybe be some slight beam reshaping compared to 1N the laws of physics still apply.

I think many people are scared they won't get UK TV at all after 1n moves - even with the rebroadcasters! but what Huevos is saying makes me feel this is now less likley. However when will the transponders be swapped from 1n? knowing that makes all the difference in deciding whether or not to drop the rebroadcasters and opt for a dish in the meantime.
A couple of things to consider are
a) if the signal is really weak then even rebroadcasters may not be able to ofer a good service
b) if we have to return to rebroadcasters, will the cost of getting a box now and then any reconnection fee from the rebroadcasters make it financially worthwhile?

I am sitting here with a quality 1.2 m PF dish wondering whether to set it up and get a freesat box (total outlay £140 approx) and drop the rebroadcaster - currently costing 25e per month - if the signal is going to last a bit longer then it will be worth it - if not then its marginal- especially if I have to then remove the dish again and re-contract with the rebroadcaster!!!

 

[Juan69]

I am in Murcia with a 120 x 140 dish and getting most UK Freesat channels. If you are confident you can get them where you are go for the dish and receiver option. If there is a change in the future you can always go the way of a VPN and access UK via the internet with a Smart TV.

 

[joddle]

I am in Murcia with a 120 x 140 dish and getting most UK Freesat channels. If you are confident you can get them where you are go for the dish and receiver option. If there is a change in the future you can always go the way of a VPN and access UK via the internet with a Smart TV.

I have no doubt that at the moment all is fine - but that is not really the issue - the issue is when will things change? (for the worse or otherwise!!) - I have rebreoadcasting and I know I could get freesat OK- at least for now! - but will in the longer run it be possible and if I change then have to chanage back will it be worth the cost and effort?

 

[Huevos]

I have no doubt that at the moment all is fine - but that is not really the issue - the issue is when will things change?

My guess is 1N will be released after the launch of 2E, which is currently scheduled for Q2-2013.

What you have to remember is 2E/F/G are just tweaked versions of 1N, which are essentially the same spacecraft. Imagine your missus drives your car, she moves the seat a little bit, changes the steering wheel position. It might feel a bit different but it is still the same car, and making these small adjustments isn't going to transform it into a Ferrari. Same with the satellite.

I think what has happened here is one or two people who seem knowledgeable about satellites predicted a tight spot beam for any new satellites (including 1N), lots of people read this and they started proliferating it. In the end it reached the tipping point and almost everyone started to believe it. Then the bomb dropped. Astra 1N was launched and it wasn't true. So they had to backtrack and come up with a new story that it would be the satellites launched the following year that would have the super tight spot beams.

You've probably seen people like this before. When I was a kid they used to be in the High Street with a megaphone telling all the passers-by "the end of the world is nigh", coming up with a date when it is going to happen and modifying their prediction every time it didn't. The difference was in that case most of their audience just put them down to being cranks.

Mark Twain once said something like, "A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.".