LNB comparison tests

piratt

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I tested today again my invacoms single and quad on prime focus dish 1.80 on weaker transponders on astra2d/i have only vertical transponders/single invacom works 1-2% better on 10.729V other vertical transponders is the same Signal Quality on Astra1 19E on 12.441V invacom single give me 70% signal quality but invacom quad QDF-031 only 58% this frequency 12.441V on astra2 28 E signal quality the same single-91-94% quad-91%SQ why is differnt on astra1 19E in signal quality results from invacom single SNF-031 and quad QDF-031 may be better cross polarization on invacom quad show realy signal quality level without interference and SQ is small?
 

dxsat

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The real benefit from the Invacom quad comes on low band frequencies, not high. Can only explain the strange result on Astra 1 from some kind of combination of interference and skew settings. Skew is highly critical in cases of cross- polar interference, a fraction of a mm can make SQ jump from zero to way up the scale.
You also have to use relatively new LNBs to test together as they all deteriorate with age.
 

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snap said:
a fraction of a mm can make SQ jump from zero to way up the scale.

A fraction of a mm ? :eek:

That is figure of speech isn't it ?
 

iceman

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koansrc said:
A fraction of a mm ? :eek:

That is figure of speech isn't it ?


you could take it as figure of speech but i agree with snap,skew adjustment on 2D is so sensitive you could have and loose the highest level within milimeters...That's the reason a good quality (professional) digital strenght meter is required for best results..
 

dxsat

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It really is that critical on the most sensitive TPs where you have an issue of cross-polar interference, maybe not millimeters but fraction of a degree twist.
Re: post #59 above, the serial numbers of the new version 'HD optimised' Invacom Quad LNB QDF-031 will be higher than the following:
5070710 BC 0010990
 

piratt

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On my Invacom quad QDF-031 i receive this year serial number is 4041111BC0001200
 

Prodelin

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Don't put serial numbers out on a public forum
 

dxsat

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Prodelin said:
Don't put serial numbers out on a public forum
Why not? Can't see what anyone is going to do with an Invacom LNB serial number.

Piratt, your LNB is appears older than the one mentioned above bought one year ago in May. Your serial number is lower, but you could check with Invacom to make sure serial numbers are incremental.
 

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hi,
When you use a corrugated CM Feedhorn with a C120 LNB which has a round input.
Which Channelmaster version feedhorn do you use?
The round throat 611-6060-17 or the WR75 throat 611-6060-07.
 

dxsat

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You need the circular Channelmaster feedhorn for mixed polarity signals, I believe it is WC75 interface.
WR75 is for single polarity LNBs.
 

canofan

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I am using a 611-6060-10 feed assembly for the 11.7 to 12.2 ghz band with a Norsat 7706A and it is miracles above what I was using before.
However the feedhorn (CM3040645) has a WC75 throat and I had to use the included WC75 to WR75 transition to make it work OK.
I cannot help thinking that, if I had a WR75 feedhorn (CM3040605), I could remove the transition, and its insertion loss, to achieve even better performance.
I estimate the transition to introduce 8° to 15°K to system noise. Am I correct?
The difficult thing is that, when you order the longer single polarity feedhorn, you are not sure what you receive: will it be the WC75 plus transition or the WR75 version?
Sales Engineers accept orders by Feed assembly numbers and not by feedhorn numbers.
I also need a WC75 corrugated CM feedhorn to use with C120 universal LNBs and I do not want to receive the WR75 instead.
Could you help?
 

dxsat

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ASC signal (formerly ChannelMaster) feed assembly part no 611 606 007 is the circular throat feedhorn, junction block and other fittings for use on standard C120 LNBs such as Invacom. This is what you normally receive if you ask for a ChannelMaster feedhorn.
I may have a WR 75 feedhorn in my parts box in Madrid, which you are welcome to have. I'll have a look on my next visit.
The WR 75 feeds came as standard with Prodelin dishes in Spain, and are useless for standard LNBs.
Your estimate for insertion loss for a transition (converter WC75 circular to WR 75 rectangular) I'm not sure about- but there is a significant loss if you use one of these, so they are best avoided if the signal is very weak.
 

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snap said:
I may have a WR 75 feedhorn in my parts box in Madrid, which you are welcome to have. I'll have a look on my next visit.
The WR 75 feeds came as standard with Prodelin dishes in Spain, and are useless for standard LNBs.
Thanks for your generosity snap but I would like to pay for it and all expenses involved. I would be pleased to have, at last, the 611-6060-10 that would work without the transition on WR75 LNBs. Please let me know and I shall PM you for my details.
 

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snap said:
Thanks for the last comments Spiney. I'd thought of the feedhorn variable, so in this new test I tried an Invacom with the oher commonly available offset feedhorn made by Gibertini. It is designed for an F/D ratio of 0.66. ChannelMaster and Prodelin do not publish the ratio of their dishes (I ought to go out and measure my dish, but it's raining hard)

I found that a ChannelMaster feed worked better on both the 1.2 and 1.5 Gibertini antennas.

The results confirm many anecdotal comments in forums over the past few years. The most commonly recommended LNBs have been MTI BlueLine and Invacom, and these tests confirm this. I only had one BlueLine to try, and I had to use it in an installation before the night-time testing, which was a pity. I had four MTI white 0.2 examples, they were all very similar, much worse than the BlueLine single 0.6 (so much for manufacturer's noise figures!).
The MTI BlueLine single was better than the twin. The MTI twin's rear port was better than the front.
What was really surprising was the poor performance of the Sharp 0.3. It was so bad I thought I had used a duff unit, so I went through the others on my box. (I've been removing these from customers' dishes for the past year, replacing them with Invacoms) See second attached image for another test on six Sharp 0.3 LNBs.
No Sharp LNB could produce a lock on 10773 H BBC transponder at 10-30pm. They varied quite a bit on vertical TP's, as you can see. They perform OK in the daytime but fail dismally to hold a signal when it weakens in the evenings (when most people want to watch TV)
It is hard to replicate a very weak signal by covering up part of a dish. I tried this and my meter went crazy. In this part of Spain, horizontal TPs are VERY weak late evening.
It's worth saying that Sharp is very popular in Spain amangst expat installers, no doubt because the trade price is so low (about £10), whereas Invacom and MTI are the most expensive. Draw your own conclusions. For me, installing one of these on a ChannelMaster is like putting a Reliant Robin gearbox in a Porsche.
I chose 5 transponders, a mix of hi and lo, V and H. I think the problem with 12304 H, FIVE, is that there is interference from adjacent transponders, not that it is particularly weak.
On my dish with the reference Invacom I get all channels all day in wintertime. In summer BBC2 can start to go about 11pm. Recently, since 10th October, sun outage day here, the 2D signal has been markedly stronger.
I intend to run this test again when I have bought some more MTI BlueLine, to get a night-time result.
In this test I have drawn a threshold line to represent a clear picture. I had a Pace 2600CI (since sold) alongside a Pace Sky+(TDS470n- same tuner as 430n) on the same LNB to try to get an idea of the level of signal each needed. You'll probably be aware already that the 2600CI has a lower threshold. On the scale my meter produces, the 2600 needs 33/4 or value of 85 to be clear, the 470n needs 41/4 or value of 86.
Calibration was set to 030 on the Wolsey meter.
For some reason I don't understand, the breakup threshold is lower on high band. Is this due to the frequency or the different data rate and error correction?

Although this message is old I am assuming this thread is still alive, since I received a link through my e-mail just yesterday, so here goes my question: I live in Madrid and I managed to get an official subscription to sky which I pay regularly and I indeed had a channel master dish with a sharp lnb installed by an expatriate installer; I must say that I have read often about good lnbs for fringe reception but never decided to take the jump and install for example an invacom mostly for fear of not being able to install it myself and not knowing a reliable installer to do it. If the difference is so appreciable, specially with the BBC, I think I would go for it so, is it really worth it? any help locating a reliable installer on the norhwestern suburbs of Madrid?
Thanks in advance for any help.
 

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artafernes said:
Although this message is old I am assuming this thread is still alive, since I received a link through my e-mail just yesterday, so here goes my question: I live in Madrid and I managed to get an official subscription to sky which I pay regularly and I indeed had a channel master dish with a sharp lnb installed by an expatriate installer; I must say that I have read often about good lnbs for fringe reception but never decided to take the jump and install for example an invacom mostly for fear of not being able to install it myself and not knowing a reliable installer to do it. If the difference is so appreciable, specially with the BBC, I think I would go for it so, is it really worth it? any help locating a reliable installer on the norhwestern suburbs of Madrid?
Thanks in advance for any help.

I would say save your money and get a Inverto Quad C120 LNB.

My friend bought one recently and got better performance than twice as expensive Invacom Quad.

I have ordered one myself and will be please to post the results when i get it.
 

Llew

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Good find iceman. That's my bed-time reading sorted O-zzz

Seriously, they've used some heavyweight equipment for those tests.

Llew
 

dxsat

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artafernes said:
...any help locating a reliable installer on the norhwestern suburbs of Madrid?
Thanks in advance for any help.

You will see a big improvement by changing the LNB. The guys who did installs in Madrid in recent years typically put in decent dishes with really cheap Sharp LNBs (Cost: about 10 euros)
Many if not all of these are now beginning to fail after another season of baking temperatures. They never worked that well even when new, Sharp LNBs cannot cope well with a mix of very strong and very weak signals.
I don't live in Madrid any more but I was installing there for two years and replaced loads of Sharp LNBs, which went into the bin.
Someone took over the business and I will send you a contact number in a PM. He has had a number of calls just in the last week from people in exactly the same situation.

* edit* it appears I cannot send you a private message.
have a look at _www.skyinmadrid.com which is the business I used to run, I now design the website.
 

artafernes

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snap said:
You will see a big improvement by changing the LNB. The guys who did installs in Madrid in recent years typically put in decent dishes with really cheap Sharp LNBs (Cost: about 10 euros)
Many if not all of these are now beginning to fail after another season of baking temperatures. They never worked that well even when new, Sharp LNBs cannot cope well with a mix of very strong and very weak signals.
I don't live in Madrid any more but I was installing there for two years and replaced loads of Sharp LNBs, which went into the bin.
Someone took over the business and I will send you a contact number in a PM. He has had a number of calls just in the last week from people in exactly the same situation.

* edit* it appears I cannot send you a private message.
have a look at _www.skyinmadrid.com which is the business I used to run, I now design the website.

Funny that you cannot send me a private message and yet I receive by e-mail any new post on this thread! Anyway, thanks for the info, I have checked skyinmadrid website, I'll give them a call to see if they can come over and have a look at my installation. By the way, I was considering subscribing to Sky HD but I have read worrying reports about faulty Thomson boxes over at Satcure website, any comments on that respect?
 

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artafernes said:
Funny that you cannot send me a private message and yet I receive by e-mail any new post on this thread! Anyway, thanks for the info, I have checked skyinmadrid website, I'll give them a call to see if they can come over and have a look at my installation. By the way, I was considering subscribing to Sky HD but I have read worrying reports about faulty Thomson boxes over at Satcure website, any comments on that respect?

Many of the Thomson Sky HD boxes will fail with power supply problems after around 15 months or so and will need a number of capacitors changing or a refurbished PSU could be fitted.

The new "Pace" Sky HD boxes should be on sale about now, perhaps (repeat perhaps) they might be more reliable (no Component Video output though).


Graham.
 
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