Lobby to allow access to BBC domestic channels abroad!

[rolfw]

If I may ask you to relieve my ignorance about Freesat. Is it there because a proportion of the UK population can only receive a satisfactory signal via satellite? If so, does anybody know how many households fall into that category?

There is another facet to Freesat and one which strengthens the reasons for its existence, that is the inclusion of the channels in the Sky EPG. Initially only Channel Five was available on Sky (when analogue), but the BBC channels and Channel Four followed them into the platform once digital was launched. ITV stayed off the platform for some time and found that they were missing out on viewers, as once families were using the Sky platform, they were reluctant to switch back to terrestrial for a couple of channels.

 

[Analoguesat]

The BBC's own take on expat reception: Alex Pryde on the BBC Technical blog talking about 2E:

The overspill of the BBC’s services will be reduced so viewers outside the UK will find it even harder to receive them. I know that this causes unhappiness to some of you living outside the UK. However, it is entirely appropriate because the BBC domestic services are for people living in the UK only.

 

[peeter3000]

What I'd be more than happy with is keeping all existing BBC channels as they are now FTA on a UK spot and creating a new encrypt package on a widebeam transponder with BBC 1 Europe, BBC 2 Europe, BBC 3 Europe, BBC 4 Europe and BBC News + radio stations. They could blank out a few films and sports rights that aren't cost effective to broadcast to Europe too this way. Then charge expats a monthly/yearly fee. Even restrict it to just British nationals if they are worried about ruining their BBC Entertainment packages. The Swiss can limit their TV to Swiss nationals, why can't we?

We used to have BBC TV Europe on Intelsat 25 years ago which showed live BBC 1 or BBC 2 programmes or teletext if both channels where showing imported programming. It was doable then, so it really should be doable now in the 21st century!!!

I was thinking same: BBC Europe 1 HD...

 

[Analoguesat]

We may as well shut this thread - its going around in circles, and is completely pointless!

 

[iandoh]

While timo_w2s is on to something, the majority of UK TV output isn't made by the BBC, it's imported from other production companies. This means pretty much all their output minus the news would be blacked out (and we have BBC World News to make good use of that). The answer here is quite simple, if you want to get BBC and other UK channels then move to a country that covers the footprint. There are other alternatives like BBC Entertainment and BBC Knowledge, and yes they may not be great, but if you don't like it then don't pay for it. I live way outside the UK footprint as peeter3000 will know. I've accepted that I won't get BBC One and Two and moved on with my life. I chose to live here, I chose to lose the privilege of something I may have wanted.

 

[Captain Jack]

It's the same with Russian federal TV stations. The programming between a 'home' channel and its international counterpart is so different at times, that it might as well be a different channel. I learned to live with it... But I have access to IPTV which will give me what I want.. if I really want it.

Anyway, native BBC1 etc is already available on BFBS platform - perhaps get them to start selling subs to the general public.

Lastly, a lot of hotels in Belgium and Netherlands have BBC1 and 2 on their channel line up and I believe local cable services also carry them. How does it work there...with the rights and everything?

 

[iandoh]

It's the same with Russian federal TV stations. The programming between a 'home' channel and its international counterpart is so different at times, that it might as well be a different channel. I learned to live with it... But I have access to IPTV which will give me what I want.. if I really want it.

Anyway, native BBC1 etc is already available on BFBS platform - perhaps get them to start selling subs to the general public.

Lastly, a lot of hotels in Belgium and Netherlands have BBC1 and 2 on their channel line up and I believe local cable services also carry them. How does it work there...with the rights and everything?

Yep, I have full access to all the "home" Russian channels and the stuff they air is entirely different from the international variants (Don't understand any of it though so can't give quality).

The hotels can pick up the sat they're on so they just rebroadcast them. Same in Switzerland however I know they do have a law that allows them to legally rebroadcast any FTA channel as long as it can be picked up with a "sensible size home dish"... Use your imagination there.

 

[mikeisyou]

It's the same with Russian federal TV stations. The programming between a 'home' channel and its international counterpart is so different at times, that it might as well be a different channel. I learned to live with it... But I have access to IPTV which will give me what I want.. if I really want it.

Anyway, native BBC1 etc is already available on BFBS platform - perhaps get them to start selling subs to the general public.

Lastly, a lot of hotels in Belgium and Netherlands have BBC1 and 2 on their channel line up and I believe local cable services also carry them. How does it work there...with the rights and everything?

In Switzerland it is legal for cable broadcasters to rebroadcast fta channels, although this situation is a bit ironic as Switzerland's own satellite channels are encrypted.

I know in belgium there is a satellite company called tv vlaanderen which sells 3 way lnb satellite dishes pointing at astra 1, astra 2 and astra 3 probably because it is legal to receive fta channels

 

[mikeisyou]

Yep, I have full access to all the "home" Russian channels and the stuff they air is entirely different from the international variants (Don't understand any of it though so can't give quality).

The hotels can pick up the sat they're on so they just rebroadcast them. Same in Switzerland however I know they do have a law that allows them to legally rebroadcast any FTA channel as long as it can be picked up with a "sensible size home dish"... Use your imagination there.

yes and there is also a law which states It is illegal to flush the toilet after 10pm.

 

[iandoh]

In Switzerland it is legal for cable broadcasters to rebroadcast fta channels, although this situation is a bit ironic as Switzerland's own satellite channels are encrypted.

This is mainly, and ironically on cue with the topic, as they are not designed for reception in Switzerland and are instead aimed at Swiss living in Europe.

Die Verschlüsselung stellt sicher, dass nur Haushalte in der Schweiz und im Ausland
wohnhafte Schweizerinnen und Schweizer die SRG-Fernsehprogramme empfangen können

English:
The encryption ensures that only households in Switzerland and Swiss residents living abroad
can receive access to the SRG television programs

More found at https://www.broadcast.ch/xportal/tools/getPortalDoc.aspx?docID=588 (German)

 

[Fisty McB]

The Swiss broadcasts are a bit yes/no when it comes to satellite reception outside the country, in it only officially being available to Swiss citizens. As it is not in the EU, copyright laws there are a little different compared to most of the rest of the continent including the FTA rebroadcast law for cable companies. In any case, there is no satellite, at least in the Ku Band, that has a Switzerland only spot, and that using Hotbird means reception in much of the country is nearly overhead to reach into the likes of deep valleys where cable isn't available and terrestrial reception isn't possible.

I remember being discussed somewhere else a while back about the possibility of the likes of the BBC & RTE having a similar scheme to SRG-SSR for ex-pats in Europe had a problem whereby under EU rules they could not "sell" viewing cards for domestic services outside of their jurisdiction only to their own nationals living elsewhere in the EU, they had to be available to all EU nationals. I'm not 100% sure of that, but it sounds plausible and explains why no PSB in the EU has an expat scheme similar to the Swiss that I know of. There's also the case that Switzerland has its own unique set of circumstances compared to elsewhere in Europe.

The easiest route in the meantime would appear to revamp BBC Entertainment, at least in mainland Europe, to be aimed more at expat consumption.

 

[gibertini]

what gets me is the german channels have always been broadcast on widebeam satellites at 19.2e fta and they show films,series and sports so how do they get away with it?. if the BBC just encrypted the signal or a second signal on european beam and then any british national could get a viewing card on proof of british citezenship. i know there is BBC ent and prime before that but its not as up to date as the BBC terrestrial services

 

[smoggy07]

I think you'd be better off lobbying for a European iPlayer type app, I seem to remember reading on here somewhere ITV have launched (or are launching) a similar subscription based streaming service

 

[timo_w2s]

As I mentioned earlier, the BBC used to offer a service for expats (and anyone else who paid) called BBC TV Europe until the mid 90s when it changed and they refocused their marketing to Europeans who might be interested in British programmes. This is when it moved away from live broadcasts of BBC 1 and 2 and started showing older programmes that where subtitled into various languages.

While I think it's a good idea to create a British TV channel for Europe and beyond, it's a shame it resulted in the loss of a true expat channel.

Even the international version of iPlayer is pretty crippled and mainly allows you to buy old shows. It's all about money these days and I guess it is easier to sell BBC programmes to local channels at a higher rate on an exclusive basis than when it's already been shown on a BBC international channel.

Sweden still have a channel that broadcasts a lot of "live" content from SVT on SVT World, Danish DR is available to subscribe to on Canal Digital outside of Denmark and Finnish YLE homemade programmes are available to all on their streaming service. And Swiss TV has already been discussed here.

The biggest problem British TV has is it's too successful so it's too valuable to "give away"...

 

[Richard Hunt]

Thanks for your replies.
It's now absolutely clear to me that we who currently live outside the UK (I politely reject the term "expats" for people like me) should understand that Freesat is essential for a good chunk of UK based viewers, and any proposal we make must start from that basis.

The BBC1-4HD Europe idea, mentioned above , is pretty much what people like me want and will pay for. Again I emphasise, if it is a paid for by subscription, the rights holders cannot screw the BBC because it will be -say- a max 500k extra viewers. The extra payment to extend rights that way will be minimal. Then it will be a case of cost of technical set up versus revenue. An I-Player solution doesnt really cut it; the fact is, we can get that now. On another forum somebody mentioned a new Berlin based site offering both data protection and high quality VPN for free, and sure enough within five minutes I was watching Newsnight on my laptop. But many of us would much rather pay to watch Newsnight on our HDTV, time shifted if necessary, knowing that our money supports such quality programming.

I'm grateful too for those mentions of Swiss and Scandinavian practices, these also are useful to help build the case.

I would appreciate all further thoughts on this. I understand that I am not a typical contributor to this forum, and so I have just made a small donation to express my appreciation (note; with a UK bank debit card :-)).

 

[Topper]

Thanks for your replies.

I understand that I am not a typical contributor to this forum, and so I have just made a small donation to express my appreciation (note; with a UK bank debit card ).

Many thanks for that, any contribution financial or otherwise is always welcome on the forum, but financial donations help towards server running costs.

 

[Analoguesat]

Lastly, a lot of hotels in Belgium and Netherlands have BBC1 and 2 on their channel line up and I believe local cable services also carry them. How does it work there...with the rights and everything?

ISTR there is a payment made anually to the UK - presumably the BBC by the cable operators for the right to carry them, although they are way inside the coverage areas so theres no problem picking the channels up anyway.

Presumably UK hotels could show Dutch channel BVN if they thought it was worthwhile as that one is fta.