New Inverto KaKu lnb

zorbua

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
949
Reaction score
868
Points
93
Age
76
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 8000 HD
Dreambox 800se
Dreambox 900UHD
Clark Tech 5000 HD
Numerous other receivers (Retired)
Dish Gibertini 1.5 M
Dishes Gibertini 1.2 x2
Dish Gibertini 1 M
My Location
Malta
7E - Not much of a problem signal strength ok except Freq 21749 H which is about 7 db.
 

Attachments

  • MUVI Lot.jpg
    MUVI Lot.jpg
    50 KB · Views: 18
  • 2s Tagged as 21565 h sid 0x01.jpg
    2s Tagged as 21565 h sid 0x01.jpg
    46.5 KB · Views: 18
  • LC2 tagged 21584 H 0X01.jpg
    LC2 tagged 21584 H 0X01.jpg
    37.1 KB · Views: 21

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
7E - Not much of a problem signal strength ok except Freq 21749 H which is about 7 db.
What about TPA ? 21571H approx
 

bema

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
81
Reaction score
69
Points
18
Age
61
Location
Kungsbacka
Website
www.sm6muy.se
My Satellite Setup
TV server: Linux Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
TvHeadend 4.1-1355
TBS6904 (Quad DVB-S/S2)
Dish: TD110, Inverto black ultra quattro
TBS6205 (Quad DVB-T/T2)
Ant: UHF 100 El Triax, dir N
Client: Kodi v14.2 etc
My Location
Sweden
A clearer view of the inside, and some component details. The problem with many ICs used in these LNBs is trying to find out what they are, unless they are from well-known manufacturers.

Trying to work out how the Ka/Ku switching is achieved...


View attachment 86527 View attachment 86528

It's not that difficult to do some reverse engineering. Most of the components have some label/marking. If you know (or can guess) what is does, you reduce the number of vendors. I have done it for BU Quattro (The RF path components). E.g. low noise GaAs transistors are in most cases Renesas (former NEC) or e.g. Mitsubishi. In some cases Avago is also used. The circuits with red marks are bias circuits for the FETs. If you remove the cover like this the DRO might get out of frequency. There is probaly one screw directly above the DRO and this is tuned after all the screws for the cover are tighted. There can be some minor change now when put the cover back again. The switching is not difficult to find. Just follow the line from the F connector. It's done at IF.
 

zorbua

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
949
Reaction score
868
Points
93
Age
76
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 8000 HD
Dreambox 800se
Dreambox 900UHD
Clark Tech 5000 HD
Numerous other receivers (Retired)
Dish Gibertini 1.5 M
Dishes Gibertini 1.2 x2
Dish Gibertini 1 M
My Location
Malta

Attachments

  • TPA1.jpg
    TPA1.jpg
    58.8 KB · Views: 26

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
It's not that difficult to do some reverse engineering. Most of the components have some label/marking. If you know (or can guess) what is does, you reduce the number of vendors. I have done it for BU Quattro (The RF path components). E.g. low noise GaAs transistors are in most cases Renesas (former NEC) or e.g. Mitsubishi. In some cases Avago is also used. The circuits with red marks are bias circuits for the FETs. If you remove the cover like this the DRO might get out of frequency. There is probaly one screw directly above the DRO and this is tuned after all the screws for the cover are tighted. There can be some minor change now when put the cover back again. The switching is not difficult to find. Just follow the line from the F connector. It's done at IF.
What you say is true up to a point ..
but becomes dificult with custom mask devices ...with multiple pins ...as information on such devices are not always in the public domain ..
If a manufacturer has a device specifically made to do a certain job ...then they are loathe to make this information available.
I know from experience how this more and more often the case these days with TV repairs ...devices often being made in the far East ..and no support info out there.
Particularly with surface mount devices ..which often have truncated ident markings ...which makes the job doubly difficult.
rgds
VS
 

bema

Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
81
Reaction score
69
Points
18
Age
61
Location
Kungsbacka
Website
www.sm6muy.se
My Satellite Setup
TV server: Linux Ubuntu 14.04 LTS
TvHeadend 4.1-1355
TBS6904 (Quad DVB-S/S2)
Dish: TD110, Inverto black ultra quattro
TBS6205 (Quad DVB-T/T2)
Ant: UHF 100 El Triax, dir N
Client: Kodi v14.2 etc
My Location
Sweden
What you say is true up to a point ..
but becomes dificult with custom mask devices ...with multiple pins ...as information on such devices are not always in the public domain ..
If a manufacturer has a device specifically made to do a certain job ...then they are loathe to make this information available.
I know from experience how this more and more often the case these days with TV repairs ...devices often being made in the far East ..and no support info out there.
Particularly with surface mount devices ..which often have truncated ident markings ...which makes the job doubly difficult.
rgds
VS

Not much custom these days. Too expensive. It's better to use "standard" high volume components: If you do custom the volumes will be lower and the price accordingly higher..It's not difficult to find the marking information e.g. Renesas

Part Name/Marking List | Renesas Electronics
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Not much custom these days. Too expensive. It's better to use "standard" high volume components: If you do custom the volumes will be lower and the price accordingly higher..It's not difficult to find the marking information e.g. Renesas

Part Name/Marking List | Renesas Electronics
Thanks for the link ..
It may well prove useful.
cheers
 

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
16,236
Reaction score
4,205
Points
113
Age
81
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Xtal does trace out to that chip VS.

No sign of voltage regulators above board, may be below like some other LNBs. There's quite a space between the board and case.
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
..After doing much digging ...and looking closely at the pcb pic ..
The PK5000 is looking more and more like a semi discrete component...rather than an active device..
ie ...a possibly bussed resistor pack to provide controlled biasing of the various GASfets etc..
If anything is as I suspect a control device (maybe PIC based ) it would be the UTCQHTM ??
Cant find anything on this device ..
have you had any luck Llew ?
possibly the manufacturer is Unisonic Technologies
-UTC-
rgds
VS
 

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
16,236
Reaction score
4,205
Points
113
Age
81
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
Nothing as yet VS, I'll have a closer look at their markings, but I'll need to open it up again as it's on the dish ATM. Needed to check all was OK after removing the board to see what was underneath - no additional components there, just a couple of tracks, 5V supply I think.
None of the usual 780x voltage regulators. Not sure where the 5V supply for the ICs is taken from.
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Nothing as yet VS, I'll have a closer look at their markings, but I'll need to open it up again as it's on the dish ATM. Needed to check all was OK after removing the board to see what was underneath - no additional components there, just a couple of tracks, 5V supply I think.
None of the usual 750x voltage regulators. Not sure where the 5V supply for the ICs is taken from.
..That would most likely be the DC to DC converter chip top left LA8522 ...as I can see nothing else suitable atm..

Download LA8522A Datasheet PDF (INNO-TECH)

..and it may well be we are using 3.3v in this case ..not 5v
 

Analoguesat

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Messages
50,857
Reaction score
11,296
Points
113
Location
Scottish Borders
My Satellite Setup
TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
My Location
Scottish Borders
You can place your order here Chris.
Code:
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.satshop24.de/cgi-bin/satshop24/iboshop.cgi%3Fshowd0!0,671343595221735,KA_KU&usg=ALkJrhhdGSV3RHzx_Uw3w_T_abjiocca5g


Forum members from here appear to have bought most of their stock! - none left.... :-rofl2
 

Vipersan

Emmett Browns Ghost
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
10,918
Reaction score
6,663
Points
113
Age
66
My Satellite Setup
IP9000HD +
TD110 Dish and TD88 Dish in Tandem
66°East to 60°West.
AZbox PrmHD + OpnbxS9HD + Skybox + DrHD F15
2x VboxII AZ-EL
2 m+ Alcoa PF + BSC421 C-Band lnbf...
+SS2/TwHnS2-3200 pci/TBS6925 pci
1.5 Fortec Star -Gbox - HtoH Ku/Ka/C
My Location
UK
Forum members from here appear to have bought most of their stock! - none left.... :-rofl2
..A good thing perhaps ?...
Maybe Inverto will finally get the message ...
There IS a market out there for Ka product ..
NOW ...make us an affordable PLL Ka version ..
;)
 

zorbua

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
949
Reaction score
868
Points
93
Age
76
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 8000 HD
Dreambox 800se
Dreambox 900UHD
Clark Tech 5000 HD
Numerous other receivers (Retired)
Dish Gibertini 1.5 M
Dishes Gibertini 1.2 x2
Dish Gibertini 1 M
My Location
Malta
:eek:
Forum members from here appear to have bought most of their stock! - none left.... :-rofl2

Guess I was the last one cause afterwards the amount went to zero...paid a hefty 95 Eu:eek: for the Shipping....since Malta was not included in their Country list...and when I inquired by email they forwarded that shipping amount....At least I got it within 1 day flat...after going to France from Germany and then Malta - DHL
 

Ponny

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
7
Reaction score
43
Points
13
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Laminas AS 2700 H2H Mount, Eyvos 9515, Dr.HD F15 / F16, Azbox ME
My Location
Brandenburg
chances you'll get more channels by inputting the scan parameters manually buddy..
most receivers have trouble scanning in low SRs with very little seperation frequency wise when using blindscan ..
Try again ..but input the parmeters manually ..then wait a few seconds ..whilst your receiver gains lock ...then scan transponders individually..

transponder details listed at Flysat ...
also these can vary a little so be prepared to shift the frequency by 1 ..up or down..
Even then you may have enough signal but the receiver cant lock..
Example such as the F15 SX6 debacle recently posted on this thread..
Only a PLL Ka lnb can make sense and lock these signals effectively...if they are borderline..
Sadly we think the Inverto is not PLL in Ka..
rgds
VS

Probably the strongest channel here is Vision4 21538 H
Often topping 13.5db ...
Ironically this locks no probem on the SX6 or TBS card with the Inverto ...but the f15 refuses to lock it...
However the XMW capturing the same signal at similar levels will lock on the the SX6 or the TBS ...and the F15..
PLL is king ..but the inverto is a good value second..

Hallo,
der Empfang im KA-Band auf 16° E ist wegen der sehr kleinen Symbolraten nur mit einer PLL-LNB möglich. Eine DRO LNB kann bei diesen kleinen Symbolraten kein Bild darstellen, obwohl ein auswertbares Signal vorhanden ist. Die Inverto KU /KA-Band LNB ist im KA-Band eindeutig eine PLL-LNB.
Der Empfang aller Transponder ist nur mit einer TBS-Karte zum Beispiel TBS 6983 möglich. Als Receiver eignen sich die Openbox SX 6, Dr.HD F16, F15, D15 und der Technomate TM 5402. Ein minimaler Transponderabstand von 2 MHz ist mit diesen Receivern realisierbar. Ein Problem stellen die großen Signalunterschiede von benachbarten Transpondern dar. Die AFC des Receivers reagiert auf den stärksten Transponder.
Im Anhang einmal die Pegelunterschiede von der LAMINAS AS 1800 und der LAMINAS OFC 1200 auf 16°E. Mit der LAMINAS AS 1800 ist auf allen Transpondern ein stabiler Empfang. Bei der LAMINAS OFC 1200 bereitet hauptsächlich der Transponder 21534 mit einer Symbolrate von 1000 Probleme.
Im Anhang die Spektren und Transponderliste von 16°E mit der LAMINAS AS 1800 und OFC 1200.
Die Messwerte wurden mit dem IQ-Monitor und der TBS 6983 ermittelt.
Ponny

Hello there,

the reception in the Ku-band at 16 ° E is only possible with a PLL LNB because of the very small symbol rates. A DRO LNB can in these small symbol rates represent no picture, although an analyzable signal is present. The Inverto KU / KA-band LNB is clearly a PLL LNB Ka-band.

The reception of all transponder is only possible with a TBS-card for example TBS 6983rd As receiver, the Openbox SX 6, Dr.HD F16, F15, D15 and the Technomate TM 5402. A minimum distance of 2 MHz transponder is with these receivers are realized. One problem is the large signal differences of neighboring transponders. The AFC of the receiver responds to the strongest transponder.

In the appendix once the level differences of the LAMINAS AS 1800, the LAMINAS OFC 1200 on 16 ° E. With the LAMINAS AS 1800 is on all transponders a stable reception. When LAMINAS OFC 1200 mainly prepares the transponder 21 534 at a symbol rate of 1000 issues.
In the Annex, the spectra and transponder list of 16 ° E with the LAMINAS AS 1800 OFC 1200th
The measured values were determined using the IQ-Monitor and the TBS 6983rd

Ponny
 

Attachments

  • spectrum.jpg
    spectrum.jpg
    188.9 KB · Views: 21
  • Liste.jpg
    Liste.jpg
    145.1 KB · Views: 20

Llew

cerca trova...
Staff member
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
16,236
Reaction score
4,205
Points
113
Age
81
My Satellite Setup
Triple Dragon, Dreambox 8000, Echostar AD3000ip, TBS6522,6925,6983 PCie cards.
Gibertini 1.25m motorised dish driven by the AD3000, with either Inverto BU Quad or Norsat / XMW Ka LNBs . SMW 1.05m + 3 other dishes. Speccy: Promax HD Ranger+
My Location
The Flatlands of East Anglia
The Inverto KU / KA-band LNB is clearly a PLL LNB Ka-band.
Ponny, I may be mistaken, but I don't see a PLL IC anywhere for Ka. Only for Ku (T1015). Therefore only DRO.
 

solly

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Apr 18, 2004
Messages
6,427
Reaction score
3,664
Points
113
Age
53
My Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
any got signal from astra 1l on ka band ?
 

scopus

Specialist Contributor
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
3,182
Reaction score
3,813
Points
113
Age
59
My Satellite Setup
Primesat/Famaval 1.8 PF C/ku/Ka, Octagon SX8HD1, SX88, Openbox S3 Mini HD-V8S Freesat V7 HD-V8 Finder, Amiko A4K Combo, Satlook Colour HD Spectrum, Sansui A909 Amp and BOSE Acoustimass speakers for the audio.
My Location
Staffs UK

Ponny

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
7
Reaction score
43
Points
13
Age
78
My Satellite Setup
Laminas AS 2700 H2H Mount, Eyvos 9515, Dr.HD F15 / F16, Azbox ME
My Location
Brandenburg
Hallo,
diese Frequenzstabilität hat nur eine PLL-LNB. Ich habe zum Testen eine DRO KA-Band LNB. Mit dieser ist bei diesen kleinen Symbolraten kein Bild darstellbar.
Auf den 2 Spektrums siehst du an der LAMINAS AS 1800 diese hat eine andere KA-Band LNB, als bei der LAMINAS OFC 1200. Die Frequenzen sind fast identisch.
Auf den Bildern siehst du die Ergebnisse von 7,0° E und 4,8° E.
Unter diesem Link findest du eine Settingsliste für die Openbox SX 6. Minimaler Frequenzabstand 1 MHz. Auf 16° E sind alle Transponder mit Programmen eingelesen.
Ponny

Hello there,


this frequency stability has only one PLL LNB. I have to test a Ka-band LNB DRO. This image is not displayed in this small symbol rates.


On the 2 spectrum you see on the LAMINAS AS 1800 This has a different Ka-band LNB, than in the LAMINAS OFC 1200. The frequencies are nearly identical.


In the pictures you can see the results of 7.0 ° E and 4.8 ° E.


Under this LINK you'll find a settings list for Openbox SX 6. Minimum frequency spacing 1 MHz. At 16 ° E with programs all transponders are read.


Ponny
 

Attachments

  • 7E.jpg
    7E.jpg
    201.4 KB · Views: 12
  • 4,8E.jpg
    4,8E.jpg
    139.6 KB · Views: 11

zorbua

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
949
Reaction score
868
Points
93
Age
76
My Satellite Setup
Dreambox 8000 HD
Dreambox 800se
Dreambox 900UHD
Clark Tech 5000 HD
Numerous other receivers (Retired)
Dish Gibertini 1.5 M
Dishes Gibertini 1.2 x2
Dish Gibertini 1 M
My Location
Malta
Burkina.jpg
Got another Channel, (just) Burkina TV Info on 21563 H but signal pretty low and continuously freezing. Dish in use 1.5
 
Top