New motorised set up - what to expect?

[smoggy07]

Hi all

I have a 1.1 meter dish coming on tuesday and I`m mounting it on a Maplin £50 motor on a pole at about 9 or 10 foot high runing into my DM500s, the dish should have a good view to the east but not much to the west due to possition of pole in the garden


I`m going to point the thing due south according to dishpointer and try and get a lock on 1west (0.8) then continue east adding sats as I go


What I`m wanting to know is, what satellites should I expect to get from 1west to the east on a 1.1 meter motorised set up from Middlesbrough on the northeast cost of the UK

I`d rather ask now than sit here looking for satellites I`m not going to get thinking my set up is wrong somewhere

Cheers in advanced

 

[satelliteman]

Pretty much most of the Eastern satellites in view using a 110cm I would of thought. Being that far East, would be well worth trying for Astra3 23e and Nordic on 5e.

 

[paxrax]

set the dish up using USALS and if its set correctly on 0.8w you should as satelliteman says hit everything on the eastern arc bar a couple.

 

[smoggy07]

set the dish up using USALS and if its set correctly on 0.8w you should as satelliteman says hit everything on the eastern arc bar a couple.

I was always told that USALS and Goto X didnt work on the DM500s? (It`s a clone with Pli Jade3 Maxvar on it)

On the dish I have now which was a static 60cm to 80cm mesh jobby for 19east (was up pointing at 19 when we moved into the new house) I can get most of these birds 28e, 26e, 23.5e, 19e, 13e, 10e, 7e and 1w, dunno why im not gettin 9 at the mo if i can get bits of 7 and 10........

Also on everything bar 28e I either get only H or only V or mostly H or mostly V transponders, never both, would this be down to my bodge job using a dish thats only pointed in the rough direction and finetuned using the east/west buttons, its not got a pole mount on the back for a vertical pole but had a horizontal pole mount on it but i bodged it togeather and physicaly forced the dish up or down to get the signal by bending the bracket rather than wait for me new dish lol

I did get 15w, 7e, 9e, 10e, 13e and i think 16e before I moved the dish and motor, 16 was the last bird with LOS due to a house blocking the rest of the east bound arc but I didnt get 1w which was down to a tree I think

I dont know what I`m wanting to get really appart from the obvious big 3 that are 28, 19 and 13, I`m not putting the dish up to watch telly on it, im putting it up to play with, the extra channels are just a bonus really compared to what newness I might find or any encryption breakdowns I might come accross

Our lass asked the other day why I want all these extra channels but I couldnt explain its not the extra channels but the buzz of chasing the birds thats got me fookin on with satellites lol

 

[satelliteman]

A decent LNb will also play a part. The advice is go for a Inverto Black Ultra.

 

[Robbo]

Yes, USALS might not work on the DM500 clone, had it working on an genuine article though. Try it, if it doesn't you'll have to use Diseqc 1.2.

 

[paxrax]

never had a problem using a dm500 for usals in particular, generally if the box wont move the dish either by disecq or usals its normally due to a poor power supply. if you swap the power supply for a higher rated (amps) supply, they are generally fine.

 

[Robbo]

I've had loads of problems with them. USALS doesn't work but Diseqc 1.2 does.

 

[Hakon]

Our lass asked the other day why I want all these extra channels but I couldnt explain its not the extra channels but the buzz of chasing the birds thats got me fookin on with satellites lol

I think all that catch more than two sats has got this question......
I use to answer ,because i can and most channels when you die is a winner !

 

[smoggy07]

Hi everyone

Thought I`d wake this thread up again to let you know how I`ve got on with my install.

The dish is up and I`m having no problems getting 28.2/5, 23.5, 19.2, 16 (15.8) and 13.

I`d have no bother getting 9 and 10 too but when the dish is pointing at 13 its touching the wall on the house so I cant go past 13 to the west (which is a bummer lol), will a $ly minidish get 10 ok from my location or do I have to dig out the old 60 cm (or is it an 80? I can never size up a dish by looking at it) jobby out that was here when we moved in?

If a sky minidish would do 10east that would be easier because I could bolt it to the garden fence and it wouldnt look that bad to the wife 2

As I have 3 minidishes (including the one the sky man installed when we moved in) I might as well get a use out of them if I can so was thinking about a minidish on 10 and one on 9, plus the 1.1meter on the motor into a 4in 1out Diseqc switch, that will leave me with the old one that was pointing to Astra19.2 (when we moved in) to point over at 15west if I can get away with it (I know it gets 15west because I had a play before I got my 1.1meter lol), if 2 $ly minidishes are no good for 9 and 10, would I get away with duct taping a $ly lnb to the side of the lnb on my 1.1meter dish lnb for 10 and if that would work, could a duct tape another lnb to the 1st 2 to get 9? obvously to get 9 and 10 using the lnbs taped to the main dishes lnb I would have the dish set to 13east

As said above, I can get 13, 16, 19, 23 and 28 but not the bird around 21, the bird at 25 and the bird at 26 plus anything over 28,

looking from behind the dish with due south at roughly 12 oclock and the house blocking west at 3 oclock, I can see a near enough clear path from 7 or 8 oclock right round to 12 oclock (even though the dish wont look at 12 oclock because it stops at 13east)

Going from east to due south at around 7 oclock I do have a few bushes but nothing major to cause any problems so can anyone hazard a guess as to why I cant get 21.6, 25.5, 26.0 or anything above 28 i.e. 30.5, 31.5, 33.0, 36.0 or even 39.0 and 42.0

I`m not expecting much to be honest and what I have now is great because its free tv and I`m finding strange channels to watch all the time but I would have liked to get atleast something off the more exotic sats to the east of 28 every now and then lol

When I aligned the dish I set the motor to what I thought was 28 east (a few nudges back from the 30mark on the motor) and set about raising and lowering the dish untill the nasty £8 sat finder let out a squeek, when it did, i turned down the gain on the meter and adjusted some more untill even a spiders eyelash worth of movement caused the meter to fall silent

So could the dish do with being set to a bird other than 28 and try realigning and did I set the skew correctly by setting the lnb (inverto black ultra) to dead center i.e. totally vertical when the motor was set at 0degrees (before I sent the motor to 28) or is the skew ment to be slightly offset when the motor is at zero?


I hope this post makes sense to someone because it did when I was typing it

I`m just trying to work out if the elevation or lnb skew could be causing my lack of sats past 28 (and the few inbetween 19 and 28 I`m missing) so any input would be greatfully accepted

 

[rolfw]

Regarding the dish alignment, to make sure that you are following the arc when you can't see your due South satellite, you need to use USALS in the motorised settings, send the dish to zero (you'll need to move the whole assembly away from the wall to enable rotation to 0), then using USALS, send the motor to 13East and moving the whole assembly and the dish elevation find Hotbird. You dish should then be following the arc and 39 and 42 East should then come into view.

 

[smoggy07]

Regarding the dish alignment, to make sure that you are following the arc when you can't see your due South satellite, you need to use USALS in the motorised settings, send the dish to zero (you'll need to move the whole assembly away from the wall to enable rotation to 0), then using USALS, send the motor to 13East and moving the whole assembly and the dish elevation find Hotbird. You dish should then be following the arc and 39 and 42 East should then come into view.

Hi all

sorry for the long delay in my reply, real world things kept me on me toes so I`ve not had that much time on me hands (appart from the odd day or 2 when I`ve popped on here lol)

I`ve tried as suggested to move the motor assembly away from the wall and have drove to 0 and entered my location into USALS and hit it onto 13 and proceeded to fine tune, I even went as far as using the old damp tea towel trick and still my squeek box sat finder says I`m hitting the bird but I`m not getting all the verticals, I have even tried to tune to a vertical with the motor unplugged and out of the question so I can rule the motor out.

Also I`ve noticed that the motor doesnt like moving on vertical transponders, the motor will only move on horrisontals, is this a tuner problem or a power supply problem? The power supply that came with my DM is a 12V 2A kind with a figure of 8 ghetto blaster plug lead and wall-wart plug into the DM, I`m thinking it says 2amp on the power supply but its really a 500mA or something close, I do have an 9 to 10 amp power pack I`m running my pc monitor, a CCTV camera and various 12Volt things/radios on that I could use but its off a CB radio and is rated at 13.8 volt, would that damage my DM? (I think it would be ok but dont want to try without asking advise first)

[EDIT]
I`m going to move the motor to 19 and try fine tuning again unless thats not advisable? Would the skew have anything to do with the verticals not coming in? At zero what should the skew be set at dead vertical i.e. pointing down?

 

[Terryl]

The LNB should be lined up absolutely vertical/horizontal to the dish as the motor provides the skew to the LNB as it moves off the due south setting.

Loss of transponders in the vertical could mean that your receiver is not supplying enough DC voltage, (under 12.8 Volts DC) or too much DC voltage (over 14.5 Volts DC) to switch to the V polarity's, it could be stuck in the 18 volt setting, this could be why your not getting the verticals. (try another receiver)

I would check it out by using a DVM to see what DC voltage is at the receiver when you switch it between polarity's, +13 to +14 volts = V, +18 to +19 volts = H.

Using a bigger power supply on the receiver is not advisable, as it could damage the receiver, the type of coax and how long it is can affect the voltage at the motor.

Using a long run (over 25 to 30 meters) of the cheap coax with a copper plated steel center conductor (CPSC) will cause a voltage drop at the motor when it goes to move, this is because the motor needs at least 200 mA of DC current.

When installing a system that will use a motor it is best to use the good coax with a pure copper center, this will give you less of a system voltage drop when you use the motor.

 

[wod]

sounds like you need a bigger wall mount if you cant get past 13e, what size are the t&k brackets if any was used 12, 18, 24inch ?

 

[smoggy07]

The LNB should be lined up absolutely vertical/horizontal to the dish as the motor provides the skew to the LNB as it moves off the due south setting.

Loss of transponders in the vertical could mean that your receiver is not supplying enough DC voltage, (under 12.8 Volts DC) or too much DC voltage (over 14.5 Volts DC) to switch to the V polarity's, it could be stuck in the 18 volt setting, this could be why your not getting the verticals. (try another receiver)

I would check it out by using a DVM to see what DC voltage is at the receiver when you switch it between polarity's, +13 to +14 volts = V, +18 to +19 volts = H.

Using a bigger power supply on the receiver is not advisable, as it could damage the receiver, the type of coax and how long it is can affect the voltage at the motor.

Using a long run (over 25 to 30 meters) of the cheap coax with a copper plated steel center conductor (CPSC) will cause a voltage drop at the motor when it goes to move, this is because the motor needs at least 200 mA of DC current.

When installing a system that will use a motor it is best to use the good coax with a pure copper center, this will give you less of a system voltage drop when you use the motor.

So its not advisable to use a 13.8 volt power pack then even though other "12v" devices can live with it? I`ll get out another 12v 2a power supply and give that one ago

the skew is set to zero i.e. its set straight down when the motor is at 0

I`m using the coax that the sky fella installed when he installed my sub, its the twin coax (double barrel?) and I`m running one from the minidish to the sky hd box and running the other side to the motor then onto the DM500

I`m going to get a multi meter from a friend and will check the voltage coming out the back of the box, should I also check at voltage outside too where the coax hits the motor?

sounds like you need a bigger wall mount if you cant get past 13e, what size are the t&k brackets if any was used 12, 18, 24inch ?

I dont understand what you mean about bigger T & Ks?

I have used either these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/large-tk-wall-bracket-914 or these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/extra-large-tk-mast-bracket-5140, I think it was the extra large ones I have got because they where used on a CB install a house with a large overhang so needed the extra clearence, I cant find me tape mesure so cant confirm but I paid around the £20 mark for them

I cant get anything west past 13 east because the house is in the way blocking anything west of 13, I can get bits of 13, bits of 16, bits of 19 and moste of 28, I know I need to really fine tune it but its a 2man job and trying to get our lass to help is a no-go because she doesnt like the dish to start with (when I ordered it I told her it was only a 1,1 meter so wouldnt be that big, she got a shock when she seen it lol)

TBH I was getting more on this 60cm (always thought it was an 80 but after looking at an 80 I now know mine was 60) I have in my shed.

Anyway rain has stopped play for today, well the rain hasnt but the thunder has (I aint getting up no ladder in that haha) but if its a good day tomorrow I will be back up the ladder again, mutimeter in hand

I`m not going to be defeated by a bit of scrap metal and a Dreambox lolol

 

[wod]

I dont understand what you mean about bigger T & Ks?

I have used either these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/large-tk-wall-bracket-914 or these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/extra-large-tk-mast-bracket-5140, I think it was the extra large ones I have got because they where used on a CB install a house with a large overhang so needed the extra clearence, I cant find me tape mesure so cant confirm but I paid around the £20 mark for them

using larger t&k brackets will create more room from the wall or gutter to allow the dish to turn further east or west.

due to house position I need to use 24inch t&k to allow the dish to not smash the wall when I view 26e etc.

those in the link are only 10inch which doesn't sound like it is enough for your dish install, 18inch will be better or even 24 but this will stick the dish further out if your trying to keep it compact.

 

[Terryl]

So its not advisable to use a 13.8 volt power pack then even though other "12v" devices can live with it? I`ll get out another 12v 2a power supply and give that one ago

the skew is set to zero i.e. its set straight down when the motor is at 0

I`m using the coax that the sky fella installed when he installed my sub (*1), its the twin coax (double barrel?) and I`m running one from the minidish to the sky hd box and running the other side to the motor then onto the DM500

I`m going to get a multi meter from a friend and will check the voltage coming out the back of the box, should I also check at voltage outside too where the coax hits the motor?(*2)



I dont understand what you mean about bigger T & Ks?

I have used either these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/large-tk-wall-bracket-914 or these _http://www.maplin.co.uk/extra-large-tk-mast-bracket-5140, I think it was the extra large ones I have got because they where used on a CB install a house with a large overhang so needed the extra clearence, I cant find me tape mesure so cant confirm but I paid around the £20 mark for them

I cant get anything west past 13 east because the house is in the way blocking anything west of 13, I can get bits of 13, bits of 16, bits of 19 and moste of 28, I know I need to really fine tune it but its a 2man job and trying to get our lass to help is a no-go because she doesnt like the dish to start with (when I ordered it I told her it was only a 1,1 meter so wouldnt be that big, she got a shock when she seen it lol)

TBH I was getting more on this 60cm (always thought it was an 80 but after looking at an 80 I now know mine was 60) I have in my shed.

Anyway rain has stopped play for today, well the rain hasnt but the thunder has (I aint getting up no ladder in that haha) but if its a good day tomorrow I will be back up the ladder again, mutimeter in hand

I`m not going to be defeated by a bit of scrap metal and a Dreambox lolol

(*1) Double check the coax he used, it may be the cheap stuff, one way to tell is to use a small but strong magnet and see if it sticks to the center conductor, if it does then it is the copper plated steel stuff.

(*2) Yes check the voltage at both ends, I use a special breakout connector so I can hook the coax to the motor and still measure the DC voltage.

How long is the run from the motor to the receiver?

And are there any splices, ground blocks or switches along the way?

 

[smoggy07]

using larger t&k brackets will create more room from the wall or gutter to allow the dish to turn further east or west.

due to house position I need to use 24inch t&k to allow the dish to not smash the wall when I view 26e etc.

The dish is on an east facing wall and I cant get anything west of 13E i.e. 10E or 9E or the dish would hit the wall if I didnt have the limits enabled lol

The T&K are not that important at the mo because the dish is up and I`ve swung off the brackets and pole and it took all 13 and a half stone of me, even with the 1.1 meter dish on I can still pull myself up the pole when climbing the ladders

I can always put up another dish or 2 with several LNB attached on the south facing wall to catch 10E, 9E, 0.1W and the rest of the western birds.

I cant put the 1.1meter and motor on the south facing wall because LOS east is lost after 13E or 16E and the house I am in has that nasty plastic cladding going round it, from just above the downstairs windows, so I`ve only really got about 3meters of brick work at ground floor window level to play with when installing the T&K

I reccon I could get away with cutting a square into the plastic cladding so I could pull a bit off just a bit bigger than a square based wall mount bracket so I could install an 80cm or 90 cm before cutting at the square bit of cladding I pull away from the wall so I can hide the wall bracket by sticking the plastic cladding back on and sealing it, so it would look like the dish was floating, I dont think I could use the same idea for a T&K and big blue pole because they`d stand out too much

(*1) Double check the coax he used, it may be the cheap stuff, one way to tell is to use a small but strong magnet and see if it sticks to the center conductor, if it does then it is the copper plated steel stuff.

(*2) Yes check the voltage at both ends, I use a special breakout connector so I can hook the coax to the motor and still measure the DC voltage.

How long is the run from the motor to the receiver?

And are there any splices, ground blocks or switches along the way?

There are no Splices, switches or anything in or on the coax, it goes from the LNB, to the motor then down, into the house, round the wall into the front room (the install tech couldnt be done with slinging the coax over the roof lol) and then into the back of my DM 500, I then take a feed from the output socket on the DM and plug that into my $ly hd box so I can park the dish at 28 when not inuse and turn the DM off to enable the record feature on the $ly box.

There is about 8 or 9 meters of coax in legnth on the run with about a meter or more of that running down the pole into the house.

Not tried the magnet on the coax yet but its on my list of things to do.

I`ve not had a chance to lend a multi meter but since giving up the other day and fine tuning using the move east/west buttons on the DM menu I have managed to get a few more vertical transponders.

I have been up on me ladder today and I`ve found an even bigger problem than not getting verticals, I climbed the ladder and I rested my hand on the top of the motor and the ruddy thing give me an electric shock, nothing serious, felt like the kind of shock you would get off licking a 9volt battery lol

While I was up there I checked the F-connectors and made sure they where both covered in amalgamated tape (spelling check lol) and I made sure the rubber covers both sat snuggly and couldnt let any water in, I checked the coax where it was touching the pole incase of a break in the coax causing a short and found nothing and I moved the coax so it was not touching any metal on the pole anything and I touched it and got a shock again so it`s got to be a motor fault (or does the motor need earthing from the pole, surely not?)

Any advise before I phone Craplin and boot off? I bought it at the begining of June I think so it`s only 2month old